.·:*:·..·*LOST*·..·:*:·. #10: "He's Our You"

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by 4everkid, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Tonights episode:

    "He's Our You"
    62 minutes long

    Certainly an intriguing title! Can't wait to find out who's whose who!
  2. Ninilchicken

    Ninilchicken New Member

    I figured someone else would have posted by now, since I can't watch the show until the next morning and I'm in one of the last time zones. I wondered if Sayid would do something to Ben, so much for time travelers not changing the past. But, I didn't think he'd kill him. I was fantasizing on a Big Brother scenario, where he takes him under his wing and makes him a good person, and then poof! Well at least we know why Sayid was on the plane. I wonder if the Others kill him because he killed Ben and mess up Richard's plan to be a Big Brother.

  3. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Well, it turns out that Oldham, the guy in the teepee, is Dharma's interrogator - their version of Sayid. Only he uses a truth serum to get his info. I was dreading, and then thankful they didn't take the torture route. I bet I was not the only one who freaked out when Horrace came into Sayid's cell with the wicked cutting tool. I was sure he was about to start lopping off some fingers!

    Anyone recognize Oldham? If not, you would have if the teepee had popped open and he introduced his brother Darryl, and his other brother Darryl.

    So the big discussion this week seems to be the ending. Is Ben dead? If not, will he be dead soon? Or is it impossible for him to be killed? A lot of people believe the latter, what happened already can't be changed, and we know Ben lives to grow up and become (seemingly) evil.

    But there are some people theorizing that Ben does die and that the Ben we know has been dead all along. That Big Ben has been grooming Sayid all the time he has been off island, to become this killing machine. Big Ben wants Sayid to go back to the past and kill him. Why? Because in order to join the Others and become their leader, he has to die first.

    Wow. Not sure what I think about that. In the world of Lost, it kind of makes sense. But I think rebirth only works for people who die off island.

    I don't believe he's dead. I think the island will heal him. Little Ben is still good, and the book he gave Sayid hints that he is a spiritual person, and that he may be in tuned to the islands energies. Something will happen that will change him from the good boy into the evil man we know. So far, his fathers abuse, getting shot by the man he tried to help.... those would certainly change a kid. But I think there will be more.

    I was a little let down by Sawyer, who seems more focused on preserving his place in the Dharma community than saving his friends life. He did try to help, But Sayid wouldn't cooperate. I wish he had just left Sayid's cell unlocked.

    Interesting parallel - Young Sayid killed a chicken so his brother wouldn't have to - just like Eko killing for his brother Yemi. Eko later had to face Smokey for his killings. Will Sayid? And if so, will he repent?

    Role reversals -
    Just like how Sawyer the former con artist is now the head of security - on the opposite side of the law, Sayid the former killer and torturer is now being interrogated and is slated to be killed. They are both living the opposite roles they were before the island.

    Jack is now supposedly a man of faith. So far he has been in the follower role to Sawyers lead, just doing what he's told. Almost the opposite of where these two were before.

    Furthermore with Sayid, Illana pulled the same con on him that he played on Elsa in The Economist. This time he's the one being conned.

    Is this the Islands version of Karmic payback?

    Loved the acid tripping Sayid telling all about the Dharma Stations, and how they were all going to die - and them not believing him.

    I wish someone would just go ahead and shoot Radzinski now. This guy is a jerk.
  4. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Deidre, that was weird seeing how Sayid ended up on the plane. Then seeing all his island buddies on board... he knew he was doomed to return. Did anyone else think that Ben hired Illana to capture Sayid and get him on THAT plane? How else would they have been on the right flight.

    I sometimes try to wait till others have posted first. But it was starting to look like a standoff. Turns out you slipped in while I was composing my usual loooong post.
  5. Ninilchicken

    Ninilchicken New Member

    Good thing you go to the trouble to know everyone's name. When Illana hit Sayid, I thought Ben must have hired her, because it didn't seem like anyone else knew Sayid killed those guys, other than Ben who told him to. I think it will still end up she lied and was hired by Ben.

    Yeah now I wonder if Ben is dead like Christian or John. But see, in the future that we've already seen Ben hadn't been killed as a child. This will change the new future path. It will be interesting to see how they reconcile all of this.

  6. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi all!

    Well, things are getting interesting again.

    I loved that line of Sawyer's that became the title of the show.

    Interrogating people with LSD! That was my guess at what it was. I'm really glad the Dharma-ites don't torture people.

    I thought that interrogating guy looked vaguely familiar! Aha!

    Sayid is such a sympathetic character, and yet he's done so many really bad things. I noticed the parallel between Sayid's childhood act and Mr. Ecko's.

    My opinion about Ben is that he won't die of his gunshot wound. Maybe the Others will heal him. I'm not sure that the Dharma people will even find out that he was shot. I can definitely see how Ben's character is being formed. He's learning from Sayid that it's okay to kill someone when it's expedient and to lie.

    But yes, I see what you mean that Ben was still good enough to become the island-approved leader for a while. Something must have happened to him while he was the leader to earn the island's disapproval.

  7. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Oh yeah,

    I was going to say that I also thought that Sayid was going to try to shape Ben's character in some positive way. But I fear he accomplished the opposite by shooting Ben.

  8. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Sayid said he realized what his purpose was in coming back to the island. I think he thinks his purpose is to kill Ben. He mentioned Ben being at fault for Alex's death and his act of genocide in killing all of Dharma. Plus, Ben turned Sayid into his own personal assassin, something Sayid didn't want to do. Sadly, the island had changed Sayid for the better, and Ben changed him back.

    But I also think Sayid feels sorry for little Ben. Rogers abuse of Ben is something Sayid can relate to. And Ben is just a normal sweet little kid right now. But being a killer all his life, Little Ben is just another innocent chicken to Sayid right now. Killing him is for the greater good in Sayid's mind.

    Its the old "would you go back and kill Hitler if you could" dilemma. You may save a few lives, but it would create a paradox so huge it would unravel the whole fabric of time. I don't know if there is enough time left in the series to fix the mess if Ben is killed and all of the future we know is changed.

    I found myself rooting for Little Ben and rooting against Big Ben in this episode. I have lost all track of flash forwards and flashbacks. Hard to tell which direction in time they are flashing. In fact, sometimes I believe they are flashing in both directions at once.

    This show is insane!

    Where am I?

    While this was another less than revealing episode, it also feels like it is setting us up for something huge. I can't wait to see what happens next.
  9. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I didn't know that was the title of this episode until I read this post! That was by far my favorite line. I immediately picked up on the voice of "Larry". I have this voice recognition thing going on. I can hear an actor's voice and know who it is. It's much more reliable for me than looking at a face. I can see someone in weird makeup and still know who it is by the voice. It's a fun ability. OK, back to the story.

    I thought this episode was very slow except for the beginning and the end. I, too, saw the parallels between young Sayid and brother and young Eko and his brother. Sayid was indeed a killer at a young age. He did what he had to do. I also thought the clippers were going to be to take of a finger. I was glad they just cut the handcuffs.

    Loved them giving him a sugar cube with the truth drug. How very 60's! I also loved him being all giggly and smiling. You don't see that very often. Then you are all worried that he is going to say something he shouldn't and he kind of does. Then he say's "I'm from the futue". I laughed so hard! That totally blew his credibility!

    Sawyer is just trying to maintain his little island paradise life, but that's not going to happen. This is probably the happiest he's ever been. I loved last week when he was deep into reading to be able to think. That really took Jack for a loop!

    I don't think Ben is dead. I think the island will heal him. I think that this incident is part of what shapes Ben into being such a bad guy. Daniel said "what happened, happened". I think that is key. So I don't see how Ben could be dead. This played out the only way it could have. Our Losties think they have free will and are making choices, but they are just playing out the hand that was dealt to them. It is all happening according to how it always happened.

    What I can't figure out is how none of them remember what happened. Did they all go through some sort of mind erasing to get rid of those memories? Does Ben actually remember and that is why he treats each of them the way he does? It's confusing.

    That's an interesting idea that maybe Ben IS dead in the Christian-Locke way of being dead. Dead, but not.

    And how about little baby Ethan! I was really surprised last week with that reveal. Juliet's face was priceless when Amy said we are going to name him Ethan. And then this week how Amy wants to protect her family by killing Sayid. She wouldn't be able to sleep knowing he was out there. So let's kill him so I can sleep better. Twisted.

  10. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    TwinMa - I have a similar thing with voices. If I am watching a cartoon, I am trying to figure out who the voices are. But if I am in another room and can only hear them, I know instantly who they are.

    Funny TwinMa... my son also said, "That's the first time we've ever seen Sayid smile." Definitely a rare sight.

    I agree 100% with your paragraph about Ben surviving and fate vs free will. I think that we are seeing is basically a flashback showing how what our Losties did in the past shaped the future we have become familiar with. Its an island flashback.

    Why can't they remember these events? I think the reason that's so confusing is because so many fans, including myself, believed that they were caught in a time LOOP. But its not a loop. If it were a time loop they would remember their past on the island.


    The Losties are living in linear time - a straight timeline, just like us. They were born, grew up, traveled to the island, left the island, came back, then traveled to the islands past. (not their own past - the islands past) Each event in their lives happened one after the other. Like this:

    Born....grew up...to Island...back home...to island....to 1970's.... next, back to 2008???

    Everything they do on the island in the 70's, happened in the islands past. From their own point of view, it is just NOW happening. But from the islands point of view, and those who lived on the island in that time, the Losties were members of Dharma in the 70's. From this point on, when/if the Losties return to their own time, they WILL remember being on the island in Dharma in the 70's, because now, it's part of their OWN past too.

    Think of the past on the island as a LOCATION they traveled to, instead of a time. In 2008 they traveled to Dharmaville, which exists on an island in 1970.

    Since this show began, we have been shown flashbacks of the Losties lives before they came to the island. THAT is still THEIR past. What we are seeing now, is like an island flashback.... the islands past. The Losties, in their own future became part of the islands past. What they do there can't be changed, it has already happened. We are just watching what happened then, as they are doing it now.

    Look at it this way. Tomorrow you will get into a time machine and go back to 1900 for 10 minutes, then return. Right now, you don't remember being in 1900, because YOU haven't done it yet. The day after tomorrow, after you time travel, you will remember.

    Back in 1900, the people you met during the 10 minutes remember you being there, and the things you did during those 10 minutes. The things you did, were actually done by you in that time. But from your point of view, you did those things in 2009.


    ** While in the past, there are two versions of them: the adults on the island, and them as children in the USA (or wherever). They can't cross paths, and wont, because they are separated by time. There are 2 Bens on the island, but in 2 separate times.

    ** Anyone who lived during that time and survived the purge, should remember them. Ben remembers them. Richard in the future should remember them. Remember when Cindy said to Locke, "we've been waiting for you." Thats because Richard shared the story of Locke’s visit to 1954 from the future. Locke told them then that he would be their future leader. So they have been waiting for him to show back up.

    The reason this is so hard to understand is because we are 3 dimensional beings trying to understand something 4 dimensional. And most of us on this board can barely remember where we parked our car a half hour ago!

    [This Message was Edited on 03/27/2009]
  11. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I get it, then I don't. I get a moment of clarity, then it goes poof. It's a brain twister, that's for sure. Thanks for writing it out, kid. I'll have to read it over a few more times and maybe it'll stick.

    How many more episodes in this season? Is there a season finale date yet?
  12. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I know TwinMa. I have the same problem. You think you get it, then lose it again.

    I edited and tried to simplify my former post. I removed some stuff, and separated some extra thoughts at the bottom. If you read it again, the main part to grasp is between the ************* lines.

    Its one of those things thats hard to explain because its a bit beyond our capabilities to grasp. Then once you do get it, its hard to find the right words to make it make sense.
  13. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I like your reference to fate vs. free will, TwinMa!

    You know, I wonder if any of our Losties were even born in the early 1970s. Of the people who went back to the 70s, I wonder who is the oldest one. Sawyer? Jin? Surely most of them were born in the 80s. So maybe they didn't exist in two places at one time.

    I guess it bugs me to think that a person could exist in two places at the same time! lol It seems "against the rules" somehow.

    Okay, so Ben would have recognized some of the Oceanic survivors from his childhood. And what about Tom? If he were at Dharma in the early 70s, then he would recognize them, too. Why haven't we seen a younger version of Tom walking around Dharmaville?

    I wonder who else was in Dharma in the early 70s and survived the purge to join the Others. It seems like there were a few people in that category.


  14. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Oh P.S.

    I laughed when the members of Dharma wondered if they should phone Ann Arbor! I was in Ann Arbor in the early 70s, minding my own business, going to elementary school and making earrings out of beads from the hippie-run bead shops! hee hee
  15. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Fore, can you explain the significance of the Ann Arbor reference to me? I assumed it meant that was some type of headquarters for the Dharma group. That's funny that you were there at that time--and in elementary school!

    I don't think Tom was ever in Dharma. I think he was always an Other/Hostile. I thought the only person who survived the purge and made the transfer from Dharma to Other was Ben. I'm sure 4everkid will know for sure.

    There must be a list somewhere of all the dates of birth of the characters. I looked a little bit, but could only find ages. For example, one site said Sawyer was 35 yo, but didn't give his exact date of birth. That would make his year of birth 1972 (if we are going with 2007 as current time).
  16. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi TwinMa! Yes, I think that there is some type of headquarters of Dharma in Ann Arbor. I remember one of the Dharma orientation tapes saying that the experiments they were doing were devised by a pair of grad students at the U of Michigan. Or something like that.

    I think Tom was in Dharma because he knew about the experiments with the polar bears. Remember when he jeered at Sawyer that the bears figured out how to get the fish biscuits faster than he did?

    I had the vague impression that there were a couple or a few other people besides Tom and Ben who made the transition from Dharma to Other. But I wonder if I was right in thinking that. And I wonder what their story was, if that did happen.

    Oh okay, so it sounds like some of the characters would have been born already and existing somewhere at the same time as they lived in the Dharma group. Creepy!

  17. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Here are the birthdates of the characters... the ones they have given us anyway, and the age they were at the time of the crash. So add 3+ years for their age now. (I think current lost time is Jan 2008... when Locke & crew returned to the island) I compiled this list from info given on the Lostpedia timeline and went to imdb.com for their real ages.

    Characters Birthdate - name - age in 2004 - (actors real birthdate)

    1956 - Locke - 48 - ('52)
    1968 - Sayid - 36 - ('69)
    1969 - Sawyer - 35 - ('69)
    1970 - Charlotte - 34 - ('79)
    1974 - Jin - 30 - ('68)
    1976 - Charlie - 28 - ('76)
    1977 - Hurley - 27 - ('73)
    1977 - Kate - 27 - ('79)
    1980 - Sun - 24 - ('73)
    1981 - Boone - 23 - ('78)
    1981 - Claire - 23 - ('81)
    1983 - Shannon - 21 - ('83)

    Matthew Fox was born in 1966, but they have never given his age on the show.

    Remember when Locke saw the beam of light from the hatch in one of their previous time jumps? If he had explored further, he would have come upon HIMSELF, crying at the hatch door when that light came on. So that tells us that they can exist in two places at once. Same thing with Sawyer seeing Claire give birth. He was on the island in 2 places also.

    It is hard to fathom how they can exist twice in one place. But I guess if they never meet theirselves, there won't be a problem with paradoxes. In that early video of of the Orchid Orientation film, (take 1) Pierre CandleWickWax freaked out when the time traveling rabbit saw itself.

    I am also wondering where Tom/Mr. Friendly is! Maybe the Others recruited him later like they did with Juliet.

    Sorry TwinMa, I don't know who else besides Ben survived the purge. All I know is that Radzinski and Kelvin in the Swan, must have survived because they were sealed inside. Lostpedia says, after the purge... "The Hostiles were joined by people from off the Island and an unknown number of former members of the Initiative."

    I should mention that my explanation of time travel up above is based on linear time. The reason the majority of fans feel it's linear is from what Daniel Faraday told the group:

    "Time is like a street. People can move forward on that street, they can move in reverse, but they can not ever create a new street. If they try to do anything different, they will fail every time. Whatever happened, happened."

    But there are still many fans who believe what we are seeing is a loop. That they have done this all before, will do it all again, and have to change something to save the world. So take my explanation of time above as the rules of linear time travel only.

    If you prefer to go with the loop theory, the rules would be different.
  18. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    That was interesting Kina. I read the whole thing. Parts of it make a lot of sense. But it is kind of complicated. I think the diagram helped.

    The part about "if you go back in time and die..." (if he meant "die first THEN go back in time") - you would seem half-dead because a living version of you existed in that time... that is an interesting idea.

    He suggested that the island had been suspended in time in '96, and when 815 crashed there, they went back to that time. So since Christian didn't die for several more years, he is half-dead until they reach 2004. Same with Locke. The island is in a time before his actual death occurs.

    (Since we just saw Christian in the last episode, this theory would only still work if flight 314 landed on the Hydra island in a time before 2004, when Christian dies. Cause the dudes still half-dead.)

    I also like the theory about Richard traveling way back in time, and not aging till he reaches his original timeline.

    Lots of cool theories rolled up into one big theory. Very well thought out! Thanks for the link!
  19. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I heard on a podcast that we are going to get to see the statue again THIS season! They didn't exactly say from the front, but they implied it. They said it will be enough to clearly tell who it is supposed to represent. I am excited about that. I had heard before that what we saw last time was all we would get till next season. I didn't want to wait that long!

    Also, the identity of Jacob is out there floating around in cyberspace. I am avoiding that spoiler like the plague! I do NOT want to know anything in advance. But I am glad to hear that we will finally get to learn more about him.

    I usually read one of the spoiler sites, but only to learn stuff like what's in the first paragraph. Not really a spoiler, but more like "you will learn more about ____" kind of stuff. On the site where I read, the real spoilers are behind a button marked "are you sure?" and I never go inside those. But now, with the season finale not too far off, I am trying to stay completely away from the site. Sometimes the temptation is too much!

    There have been a lot of various theories about the statue.... which Egyptian deity it is. And everyone is dead set on who they think it is. So I am dying for the answer to that one.

    Same with Jacob. Jacob is Jack. Jacob is Locke. Jacob is Smokey. Jacob is Vincent. Everytime we meet a new character, someone thinks its Jacob. I am so ready to finally find out who he is, and if he is someone we know or not. I personally don't have a theory of my own on him. Just waiting to see.

    Someone asked how many episodes we get this season. This was #10 of 17 hours. The last two hours will probably be shown as the finale. Plus, there will be one week in there where we get a clip show.
  20. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Fore - Thanks for the Ann Arbor info.

    4everkid - Thanks for the birthdays on our losties. That's a good list!

    Interesting info on the statue and Jacob. I have to admit, I haven't given much thought to the identity of either one. I honestly can't picture anyone we know with their face on that big statue with the pointy ears. Can't wait for the big reveal!

    Hard to believe we are already past the half-way point in the season. boo.