.·:*:·.·*LOST*·.·:*:·. #14:"The Variable"

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by 4everkid, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    "The Variable"
    62 minutes long

    Tonight is the 100th episode of Lost! The writers claim this as their favorite of the season. I am super excited!

    Last time we ended with a shot of Dan arriving in the sub, wearing the same black jumpsuit as the swan workers. Is he in this secret "circle of trust" Pierre Chang spoke of?

    I have been lead to believe we will be getting some answers over the next three episodes. Considering that Dan is the only one in our group who understands anything, and now that he has been hanging with the scientists from Ann Arbor, he probably understands even more.

    So hopefully Daniel will share some of his knowledge with us!

    Its nearing the end of the season, and there have been no major deaths yet. It's Lost... we know its coming. So I will be armed tonight with a box of Kleenex (just in case), a glass of wine to calm myself in case the Kleenex is put to use, and a notepad. Hopefully I will only need the notepad.

    Hope all you Lost lurkers join Forebearance and I this week - because we can't solve this mess by ourselves!
    [This Message was Edited on 04/29/2009]
  2. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Sorry I've been AWOL. I'll spare you all the excuses on why I haven't been able to post, but I've been reading. You guys are good.

    Thanks 4everkid and Forebearance for carrying the torch for all of us!

    4 plus Fore = 8
    4 times Fore = 16

    4, 8 and 16 - three of the numbers! It's destiny!

    I've been meaning to post one thing about the last real episode. How do you think the guy they loaded into the van really died? You know, the dead guy in the body bag that Miles "talked" to? Miles said he was just hanging out in a hole and a tooth shot through his head? I wonder if the electromagnetism of the island pulled a filled tooth out like a bullet.

    And what did they do with him after they unloaded him? Was that at the Temple? I can't even remember!

    Have you guys been watching LOST untangled on ABC.com? It's really funny.

    How many more episodes do we have? When is the season finale?

    I'm looking forward to this 100th episode. It should be good!

  3. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi TwinMa and 4everkid!

    i agree with what you said, TwinMa. I think the electromagnetism pulled the worker's filling out.

    (or whatever that force is)

    All I can say about tonight's episode is:
    OH MY GOSH!!!!!

    Well, maybe that's not all....

    Man, what an episode!!! I can't believe it!!!
    I don't think it's going to work.
    Maybe I'm a negative nellie, but I just don't see it happening.

    And maybe a part of me doesn't WANT it to work.
    I don't want everything up until now to just be erased.
    I don't want John Locke to go back to work for a box company!

    And what would happen to Desmond when he's sailing around the world????
    He'd have nowhere to crash.

    And what would happen to Widmore and Ben's cat and mouse fighting in the real world?

    I mean, I DO want the Losties to get back to 2007, but not like this!!!!

  4. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Awww. I liked our geeky Daniel. How could Eloise send him back to the island knowing Ellie would shoot him? And Widmore must have known, too.

    Did we already know Widmore was Daniel's father? It wasn't a surprise to me, but I don't think we've actually gotten that confirmed before. I assumed that Ellie & Charles "got together" on the island. Maybe that's why Daniel is so gifted. He was conceived on the island of specialness.

    I agree Fore, I don't want everything to be undone. That's too much that wouldn't happen. Besides, how can Daniel drop Jughead now that he's dead?

    I'm glad Daniel told Dr. Chang that Miles was his son. That was priceless. Chang definitely thought Daniel had a screw loose. But what was the purpose of the telling? Daniel said it was so Dr. Chang would do what he needed to do. What could that be? Evacuate everyone? I don't see that happening.

    I liked crazy Daniel telling Charlotte not to go back to the island. Poor little Charlotte was scared silly. They sure do get good kid actors to play the young versions.

    Desmond and Penny, Yeah! I'm always glad to see them, although I don't see the connection. It seemed like an out of place scene.

    I'll post more later...bed now.
  5. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Welcome back TwinMa! No explainations necessary. Just glad to have you back!
    Love the 4 + Fore = 8, and 4 x Fore =16 = the numbers!!!!! Hilarious! I knew we fans were all connected too, somehow. Remember back in the pilot, that guy who got sucked into the engine turbine? He wrote a book called "Bad Twin." So your absence is excused. Its all part of the interconnectivity of Lost. You were supposed to be a bad TwinMa.

    Tooth filling + magnetism + brain = dead

    Remember before the hatch exploded, all the metal things sliding and crashing in the hatch? Or before that, the key around Jacks neck pulling him into the hatch wall? The magnetism sucked his silver filling right through his brain. What a way to die. Munching happily on your lunch, and BAM, you're dead!

    Fore - I cant imagine it working either, and don't want it to! All the time we have invested in the lives, relationships and experiences of these people... I don't want that to be erased. They wouldn't even know each other. Not to mention the extreme paradox. People who died wouldn't, babies who were born, might not be. Their lives sucked before the island. They would just continue to be the lousy people they were before if this chain of events gets interrupted. I hope they fail.

    And how in the world does detonating a hydrogen bomb fix things???
    They are about to drill into the pocket of negatively charged exotic matter, which is going to effect the electromagnetism that's 30,000 times stronger. And he is warning Chang about this. So lets just toss a bomb into the mix! What the ... HUH???

    Big reveal that Widmore IS Dans father. I kind of suspected that back when we met young Ellie and Charles in '54. But still... pretty cool to have it verified. So Penny is at least a half sister to him. Is young Daniel there somewhere on the island? He is surely older than 30 and alive in '77. If so, where do they keep the Other kids?

    Who else had a little mini heart attack when the Starship Enterprise came shooting out of the Lost logo at the speed of light? DUUUUDE!!! That was totally unexpected! JJ Abrams, the creator of Lost is the director of this new Star Trek film. He is also the guest editor of the "Wired" magazine that we saw neatly placed on the table in this episode. Fringe benefits of being the Lost creator must include preferred product placement.

    I am going to let this episode soak into my brain a little before I ramble any further. I'm sure I will have new, and hopefully clearer, thoughts tomorrow.
  6. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I see you posted while I was writing.

    You know how Dan told Jack that Eloise misguided him when she said he had to go back to the island, and that he wasn't supposed to be there at all?
    I wonder... (and I haven't had time to soak this all in and think it all the way through,) but what if she sent them (the O6) back so they could continue on with Dans mission after she killed him. Because if they stop the Swan from being built, the plane wont crash, the freighter won't come... and Daniel will never be there to get shot by her.

    We learned tonight that the reason Dan said "whatever happened, happened" is because his mother was cramming these beliefs down his throat all his life. But now, with time and a clearer, island-healed head, he has come to believe in free will over fate. Maybe some part of Eloise hopes he could be right, and that there is some chance destiny could be changed. She did look pretty torn up about having to convince him to take Widmore up on his offer to go to the island.

    Just an initial thought. I will need to ponder this. It does go against everything she has been preaching all along.
  7. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I forgot about that book. We are definitely all connected!

    4, I like your theory about Eloise sending the O6 back to stop it all from happening to save her son, BUT if he doesn't go on the freighter, he won't be healed by the island. He'll stay a mental cucumber forever or go into a coma like his girlfriend. Right?

    Do we know who Penny's mom is? Could it be Eloise, too? Could Penny and Daniel be full brother and sister with Charles Widmore and Eloise Hawking being both their parents?
  8. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I have already thrown out my idea that Hawking sent them back to save her son.

    Daniel the adult time traveler is dead (we think). But little Danny is still alive somewhere in 1977. So he will end up back in that same place again. Child prodigy > science geek > mental cucumber.

    But if something gets changed, will Hawking still drive him towards science? If the swan isn't built, not only will the plane never crash and the freighter never come, but a million other things could change too. Maybe Danny will get to pursue his love of music.

    Brain flash! I wonder if Daniel was the one who programmed the Good Vibrations code into the Looking Glass station. It had to be someone with musical and mathematical skills.

    Anyway, all this variable stuff is frying my brain! I don't think they will be successful in changing destiny. I am still clinging to "whatever happened, happened." Maybe Jack and Kate get Dan's journal and attempt to carry on with his plan to stop the chain of events.... but in the process, we learn that THEY are the cause of the coming "incident." Maybe Dan did this all before - had this same plan. And what happens next is what always happened. They just think they are going to change things, when in fact they are doing what they always did.

    From what I have read, none of the fans want the past changed. No one wants to see 815 land safely in LA, with the passengers never knowing each other. So if somehow the storyline proceeds with them altering destiny, then in order to please the fans, they would have to UNalter it to come to a satisfying conclusion to the series. There is just not enough time left to accomplish all this IMO.

    I think Dan is wrong. He is so in love with Charlotte that he WANTS to be able to change things. He is in denial. Eloise may seem like an evil witch for sending her son to the island so she can kill him. But you could tell it pained her. She did it because it had to be done. Besides knowing that she already killed him in 77, she knew it was imperative that Dans journal ended up in Jacks hands so he could cause the incident.

    This would be quite the ironic twist to learn that Jack, the one who worked so hard to save them, is the one responsible for them crashing on the island in the first place. (The incident was the reason for the button pushing protocol.)

    And I think that Dan, in his last moments of life, realized that he was wrong. It all clicked for him as he lay dying.... "You knew this was going to happen, but you sent me here anyway." He died before, and his attempt to change things resulted his own death, the incident, and everything else we know already happened.

    So far, there has been no mention of Penny's mom. Seems like if she was dead or something, it would have been mentioned somewhere down the line. So this makes me think her mom will be someone we know. Could it be Eloise??? I have been wondering the same since "Jughead."

    Judging by how Eloise looked the same when she shot Daniel and when we saw her in the flashback with little Dan playing piano, I think she left the island shortly after the shooting. And we know Widmore was still on the island till after the purge in 1992. Does Eloise leaving the island classify her as an "outsider" and was it her that he went to visit and had a daughter with? If so, then Penny would have to have been born shortly after she left.

    We saw Penny in 1996, when Desmond returned to the past. She was old enough to get married. So she had to be at least 18ish. That would put her birth date around 1978ish. If she was born much later than that, then we would have Desmond attempting to marry an under aged teen. So if Hawking is her mom, then maybe she was conceived on the island, and Hawking was forced to leave, or die because of the islands way of killing pregnant mothers. Or Penny was conceived and born post island.

    But then there is the question, what became of Penny between birth and 199? when Widmore took custody? Did Hawking just give her away at birth? Penny doesn't seem to know Eloise now. And why on earth would she give her daughter away when she knows she has to kill her son?

    So although I don't have the answer, I have been thinking about it.
  9. Ninilchicken

    Ninilchicken New Member

    Charlotte was so cute when she said, I'm not allowed to eat chocolate before dinner, and then I was creeped out, didn't she say that just before she died? I wonder if it was that Daniel was so in love with Charlotte or that he was desperate to change just one person's future. Charlotte and Teresa looked very similar, he couldn't save Teresa, but maybe he could save Charlotte. He said you can't change what happens, so I think they won't be able to stop the accident at the swan, maybe that is when all the future people will flash forward to when Sun/Ben/John are? That would be an easy fix and not cause a whole bunch of new stuff that has to be fixed.

    No that doesn't make sense, if it all stays the same then why send your son back to be killed. Maybe she told him to go back because in the mass confusion that is going on at Dharma right now the accident is allowed to happen.
    [This Message was Edited on 05/01/2009]
  10. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I think what you said made perfect sense. Only I think they will be the CAUSE of the incident. The incident will happen because it already happened in 77. I hope and expect them to somehow get back to 2007, and I agree that the incident will probably cause the time travelers to flash back to their own time.

    I think Eloise HAD to send Dan back to the island, and to 1977. She has always been all about NOT changing the past. Everything she told Desmond applied to her in this situation with her son. Even if she tried to change it, he still would have gone back and died in 77. Just like how Charlies death could not be prevented.

    I think she has to send Daniel back so it will stay the same.

    (I just realized something. Maybe this explains why she was so stern and irate with Desmond when he tried to buy the wedding ring. She had already made this supreme sacrifice of her own sons life for the sake of destiny. Now Desmond is going to go and screw things up by not following through with HIS link in the chain of events!!!! She had to keep him on course or Dan would have died for nothing.)

    Whatever this plan Dan had involving Jughead + Orchid's exotic matter + Swan's electromagnetism is, in my mind, what will end up causing the incident. He is convinced this will destroy the Swan and break the chain of events and the course of destiny. And maybe he was right. But he gets killed and someone else (I assume Jack & Kate) will try to do it themselves. Maybe Dan was wrong, or maybe J&K just screw it up, but whatever happens, I think will be the cause of the incident. Then the Swan will be altered to include the button pushing protocol, Desmond neglects to push them in time, 815 crashes, yada-yada-yada, and everything stays the same as before.

    They THINK they are going to CHANGE destiny, but they are only doing what they already did the first time.

    I like your idea that Daniel felt so guilty about what he did to Theresa, that he is trying to make up for it by saving Charlotte. I think it could be both - he loved Charlotte and he wanted to redeem himself.
  11. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I had a bad feeling when Jack went into his "take charge" mode in the previews for next week's show. Bad things seem to happen when he goes into that mode. I prefer him when he is more relaxed and passive.

    And I'm mad at Kate for getting out all those guns. It caused a lot of problems. They should have put them in a bag and hidden them. That way, Dan could have made his excuse about going to the swan and they could have left without incident. And maybe if Dan hadn't brandished a gun when going into the Others' camp he wouldn't have gotten shot.

    I noticed that the Others were a lot less hostile in this time period than they were in 2007. J,K and D could approach their camp undetected. That wouldn't have been possible in 2007.

    I wondered if maybe the Others became more militant and hostile because of all the people who kept coming into their camp with guns and stuff!

    I'm still trying to wrap my brain around Daniel saying that he thought his mother was wrong.

    And I'm still wondering why Eloise Hawking visited Penny in the hospital.

    I'm really glad Desmond survived. But I read something in the newspaper that saddened me. The actor who plays Desmond, Henry Ian Cusik (sp?), is being sued by a woman who works for the tv company or ABC or something. Apparently he fondled and kissed her without her permission. Ewwww. So now I can't look at Desmond in the same way. Unfortunately it seems like a problem good-looking guys can have is that they assume every woman would welcome their advances.


    P.S. And I'm still shocked that Charles Widmore came right out and admitted that HE put the fake plane and passengers on the bottom of the ocean! Wow!!! Ben actually told the truth about something! [This Message was Edited on 05/02/2009]
  12. Ninilchicken

    Ninilchicken New Member

    Until last night. I got the impression that Daniel thought the combination of Jughead/Swan/Orchid was going to be a much bigger accident than what had happened in the original timeline. Didn't he tell the Dr. to get everybody off the island? Which they wouldn't have done the first time the 'accident' happened because Dharma didn't know it was going to happen. Why do I think he was going to figure out someway to blow the island to bits? Course that would have killed his mother, and he wouldn't have been born.

    Ok, so I admit, sometimes when I'm watching it, I think stuff that didn't really happen. I'm always driving DH crazy by guessing the ending or who did it. Like I could have sworn, when Ben and John went down to turn the wheel, Ben told John the thing that made time travel possible came from outer space. I told DD about it and she said, he never said that. So I went back and watched it again and she was right and I'm crazy. So is this another, I've gone off the deep end? I was raised on the 'Twilight Zone', I can't help myself.

  13. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Fore - I too had a bad feeling when Jack went into take charge mode. He tends to make the wrong decisions. He means well though. And why did Dan feel the need to be carrying the gun in plain sight?

    Good point about Hawking at the hospital too. Why was she there? Maybe she wanted to make sure Des was still alive to complete whatever the island has left for him to do. But she should have known that the island wouldn't let him die... just like Michael & Jack.

    (I am trying to block that bad news about Henry Ian Cusick. Henry is Not Desmond... Henry is Not Desmond... Desmond is a good guy... Desmond is a good guy...)

    Deidre - How do you know Daniel didn't warn them to evacuate the island the first time? We know that Miles and Charlotte (and probably Daniel) were born there and left. We also know that Hawking left. It almost sounds like the women & children left.

    I am sticking to my theory that whatever happened, really did happen this way the first time. I don't care if Daniel is a super genius physicist. I refuse to believe that they can make a change this big to the past.

    But if I am wrong, and 815 never crashes, then all the dead people will have to return to the show alive. Will they be able to talk Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje (Eko) into returning?

    Now I wonder.... I have always believed that they were supposed to end up on the island, but the plane wasn't supposed to crash. That was how I felt before all this time travel stuff came along. So if the past CAN be changed, and we end up with a scene in the final season of all the original passengers aboard 815, it might be ok with me if they still land on the island. Only this time around, there would be no crash, no one dies, and Charlie, Libby, Michael, Eko, etc. all get to live. Frank would be the pilot. Unfortunately, we would be stuck with that awful Marshall & Anna Lucia. But I guess it would be worth it to have the good dead people back.

    The fans don't want to see them land in LA, never know each other, and find out all this stuff never happened. But if they still end up on the island, it might pacify them. Guess I will just see what happens next.
  14. Ninilchicken

    Ninilchicken New Member

    Maybe that's the deal, you can make insignificant changes, but you can't make any big ones, like combining the power of the bomb with the accident at the Swan to do something really awful. Because all those people going back to the past has got to be changing things in at least a small way. I hate time travel, it just does not compute.

  15. hermitlady

    hermitlady Member

    I enjoy reading this thread every week, along with lots of other internet LOST sites and info. I avoid spoilers like the plague, I don't even watch the previews!

    My mind has been on overload w this time travel stuff, it's quite complicated! I find myself actually stressing out while watching the show for the first time, I always need a 2nd viewing of all epis to catch everything I missed the first time around.

    I am absolutely amazed by this intricate storyline, how did someone ever think up all of this stuff and actually keep it organized and write such compelling scripts? Kudos to all the LOST team, writers, props, crew, actors and everyone involved who makes this the best show on Earth!

    Even tho Dan is supposedly dead, I wonder if we'll see him in the future. He sounds like he did some self induced time travel before, so wonder if he might still be seen in future scenes as his TT self from before Eloise shot him. Get it?

    Kate seemed to be acting a bit strange in the last few epis. I'll bet we find out some type of shocking info about her sometime soon.

    I can't wait to see tonight's epi, what will happen to LaFleur & co.?? Radinski is ready to explode himself, his face was sooo red! What an irritating character.

    !!!!...8 hours til showtime...!!! :) Hermit
  16. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    HermitLady, Good to see you again! I have missed you. Sorry to break this to you, if you haven't already figured it out, but your wait is longer than you think. Today is Tuesday, tomorrow is Lostday.

    I am amazed by how they keep all this stuff straight too. I know they have a wall they pin details to. But imagine the size of that wall, and what it looks like by now! They probably need a database of details on where to find stuff on the wall! I wish instead of a lousy clip show, they would show us a day in the life of Lost writers. That would be fascinating!

    Radzinski - I can't believe someone hasn't killed him already. Or that he hasn't keeled over from a stress induced coronary. Now I wonder if he really killed himself in the Swan, or if Kelvin killed him and lied to Desmond. Imagine being locked up with that guy for YEARS! Yep, Kelvin must have silenced him for good.

    Deidre - Actually I read that there was a scene cut from the last episode that had to do with exactly what you said. Daniel was supposed to demonstrate to Jack & Kate with rocks how a a small ripple in a pond would not change much but a big ripple would. It was in the script but they didn't have time to squeeze it in. Changing the events so the plane never crashed seems like a pretty big ripple to me though.

    Not to confuse you or anything, but from what I understand, them going back to the past always happened.
  17. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hee hee, I love all this Lost chat!

    That's a good plan to deal with Desmond, 4everkid. I'll just keep repeating to myself "Desmond is good!"

    Deidre, I hate to tell you this, but this IS the first time it happened. They were always there, and whatever happened always happened. Like 4, I am sticking to the idea that the past can't be changed.

    I had totally forgotten that Radzinsky was one of the button-pushing guys in the Swan station! Wow!

    I kind of dread tonight's show, because I'm sure some bad things are going to happen.