.·:*:·..·*LOST*·..·:*:·. #5: This Place Is Death

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by 4everkid, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Tonight: "This Place Is Death"

    Locke takes on the burden to stop the island's increasingly violent shifts through time. Meanwhile, Ben hits a roadblock in his attempt to reunite the Oceanic 6 and bring them back to the island.

    (I have been listing the synopsis each week for the new episode, as shown in tvguide. If anyone would prefer not to read this in advance, just let me know.)

    I am looking forward to seeing the past experiences of the French team as they unfold. Hope they don't skip off to another time before we learn the answers to a few mysteries.

    How does Montand lose his arm?
    Why does Danielle refer to Smokey as "the security system"?
    What is "the sickness" Danielle referred to?

  2. jemini

    jemini New Member

    I'm so excited that tonight is Lost! I was scared to come on here cause I am behind in time for a lot of you and I didn't want to see anything I didn't know yet lol I couldn't help myself though cause this morning Lost was on Spike TV (I think) and it was the one where Syied and Danielle were talking and she was telling him about her crew and all but I came in right toward the end and missed it!!!!! Argh... I really am going to have to sit and have a Lost marathon of my own. I wish I had someone that watched it with me so it would be more fun!!! You guys are great though and make the show way more exciting!!! Having a clue what is going on sure helps! lol :)
  3. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hey, 4everkid, we got the answers to all your questions!!! Wow!

    I love getting answers!

    The "sickness" was nothing like I thought it would be!

    Hey, Jemini, you could read our past threads discussing Lost shows!

    I was left with two thoughts right after watching this episode:
    Ben knocked the donkey wheel off kilter!
    And if Smokey lives in the Temple, why did Ben send the Others up there to hide? Are they friends with Smokey???

  4. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Wow, no kidding Forebearance. I got good solid answers to at least 2 of the 3. More than I bargained for on the arm question! Ouch!

    I am still a bit sketchy on the sickness. It seems like their sickness was different than the current one.

    Big reveal tonight about Smokey guarding the Temple. Does he protect the Others too? I am dying to know more about that place!

    So Charlotte left the island with her Mum. Who's her daddy and why didn't he go with them? Could she be Annie & Ben's daughter? (Annie= little red-headed Dharma kid Ben liked as a child) If so, he must not know, because he tried to kill her when she first arrived.

    I wonder about the donkey wheel being off its axis too. Did he do that on purpose? Did he know that would cause the skipping and that he could use that later to get the O6 and himself back? Did Locke set if back on its axis? If so, and the skipping is done, when are they now?

    I don't know about Ben... He was not supposed to turn the wheel, but he did. He is not supposed to return, but I get the feeling he is planning to anyway. Is he giving up on the hunt for Penny or is he planning to lure her along and get her secluded on the island her daddy cant find? I have a feeling the island won't welcome him back.

    On the other hand, his little rant about how he has done so much to protect the O6... for a moment I wondered if he could end up really being one of the good guys like he claimed.

    I am anxious to see what the translators learn from whatever language Charlotte was speaking. Plus, what do the hieroglyphics on the Temple say?

    Poor Locke! ANOTHER leg injury. Do they make iron pants?
    I was not expecting to see Christian in the donkey wheel den. Why couldn't he help Locke up? We know he can touch things cause he held Aaron. It's not like he was asking him to turn the wheel.

    It is starting to look like Hawking is not necessarily working for the good side. Ben seemed totally surprised to hear that Hawking was Dans mother. He is supposed to know everything about everyone. I read that Hawking had a Dharma logo in her station/church,(have yet to see proof though) and we know Widmore helped finance the Dharma Initiative. Are they working together and using Ben?

    Add to that Charlottes creepy remark, "Don't you dare bring HER back!" Is she referring to Hawking? Sun & Kate are supposed to come back.

    I have always been confused about Hawking telling Desmond he is supposed to go to the island, push the buttons and turn the key. Why turn the key? Doing that uncloaked the island and made it visible so Widmores people could find it. Why would she want that... unless she is working with him. I always thought she was creepy. She's still creepy, but I am now thinking she is not out for the good of the island.

    I am dying to know more about this woman!

    jemini - I know what you mean about watching Lost alone. I watched most of the first season alone. I tried to get my kids into it, but they were too busy with their social lives. I began taping it from the beginning for my oldest son who was in Iraq at the time. I hammered away till the younger 2 gave in. I sent season 1 to my army son and he watched the whole thing in 2 sittings. Now they are all hopelessly hooked. I have to get online to satisfy my need to discuss and analyze it though. I could not fully enjoy the Lost experience without the Fuselage and you guys to discuss with!
    [This Message was Edited on 02/11/2009]
  5. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    When Danielle said that her collegues had a "sickness" it seems now like that was an oversimplification. It looked more like they were possessed by Smokey or something. What exactly happened to them? What happens to people who get sucked into Smokey's lair?

    The hieroglyphics on the temple were strange. They looked more Egyptian than like something from the South Pacific. I wonder what they mean, too.

    Ben has always been a combination of vulnerability and evil. It looked to me like he was just barely managing to turn that frozen donkey wheel. I don't think he was capable of controlling it at that point, or in the mind-frame of manipulating things.

    Remind me of why Ben thought he had to be the one who had to turn the donkey wheel! Why did he feel so strongly about it? Because he was the only one who knew how?

    That was so great when Christian showed up! And when he told Locke "Say hi to my son!"

    I thought Locke was really brave to accept a mission that would result in his death in order to save the people on the island. He might be the bravest character.

    That is a great idea about Charlotte being Ben and Annie's daughter! Wow! But she left the island with her mom, and I got the impression that Ben and Annie raised Alex together. But.....maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe it was a lonely Ben who raised Alex alone. Hmmm.

    I thought it was also creepy that Charlotte knew the donkey wheel was under the well! Yikes!

    I'm not sure what to think about that Eloise Hawking woman.

    It seems like Ben has an endless number of people in the non-island world who are his support team and unquestioningly do whatever he needs done. It's like a global organization or something. Weird!

    I need to watch the episode again.


  6. jemenei

    jemenei New Member

    I have no idea how you guys figure out so much about this show! lol I watched it this morning and the only thing I really wondered about during the show was the red star on the back of Jin's shirt that they showed when he was drinking from the big leaf and after that. Other than that I was like...what? Who? huh? lol I deleted it and now I wish I would have saved it but I'm going to watch the new untangled now and I'll watch the one with explainations next week too. So much information and so many questions! I feel like I should keep a notebook next to me so I can be prepared and come here and get everything sorted out!!! I LOVE LOST!!!!!
  7. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Ok.... we have two people here with very similar names. I thought I was going a bit insane for a moment, sure it was spelled with 2 i's. But I see we have both jemini and jemenei! It this anything like the Gemini twins?

    Jemenei - Confused? With all this time travel stuff now, even the geekiest Lostie will feel lost. If there is anything we can help clear up, just ask. You can watch episodes online too, at the abc site.

    I don't know about the others, but I keep my brain tuned up by reading and discussing online. I have since the beginning. It helps me to remember the details. I watch Fringe too, but don't read about it. I need m son to remind me who everyone is. Had to give up Heroes. I couldn't keep up.

    No need for a notebook, your fellow Lost fans have that covered for you! Check out Lostpedia. Like Wikipedia, it is an encyclopedia of Lost facts, only way more fun. Here's the page for this episode:


    Any words in blue... click on them and they will take you to a page just about that. At the bottom of the home page, (which you should bookmark to your favorites list) there are links to every character, location, mystery, or episode. Whenever you are confused about anything, lostpedia will have a page about it. Use the search bar to look up anything relating to the show.

    Forebearance - I had a reply typed to you earlier and lost it. Take 2:

    The French teams sickness does seem like possession. I wonder if that would have happened to Locke when Smokey tried to drag him down the hole, if they hadn't thrown in the dynamite and saved him.

    Someone is working on the hieroglyphics. If I see anything, I will post it here.

    It was never said what happened to Annie, Ben's little girlfriend. All we know is they liked each other and she made the set of dolls of the two of them. He still has the Annie doll she gave him. The ages work. They were around 10ish in the early 70's. Charlotte was born in 1979. As far as we know, Ben raised Alex alone.

    It could be that Char & her Mum left the island to escape danger. Mom remarried and changed Charlottes name. She has been told that her island memories are dreams all her life, and she may not know she had a real father back on the island. Ben wouldn't recognize her by name. All he knew was what he found in the records about her, and that Widmore sent her. All pure speculation.

    Ben claimed he was the only one who knew how to move the island. (He directed Locke to the place, he could have told him the rest.)

    But Jacob/Christian told Locke to do it, and Ben knew he wasn't supposed to. I think he has been manipulating everything since day one. You are right about the wheel. That was frozen hard when he turned it. He was lucky to move it at all. It was nice and loosened up for Locke.

    But I think Ben had a plan. He knew whoever turned the wheel could never return. The island would move and be lost. He knew the O6 (or anyone) were not supposed to leave, but he gave Kate & Sayid permission to go. I think he knew then that they would have to return, and that forces (island, Jacob, etc.) would make it possible for them to. And I think he thinks he will win the favor of Jacob/island if he is the one to bring them back. I think he's wrong.

    He moved the wheel for selfish vengeful reasons... to get back at Widmore. Locke turned the wheel for the good of the island and the people on it. He sacrificed himself. Ben was told he couldn't come back. Locke was told he would die. Yet he is still willing to turn the wheel. If they both come back, the island will favor Locke for his sacrifice. I believe he will return to life once he returns.

    YOu are right about the global organization! I read that Hawking had a dharma symbol on her computer. I asked for a screencap and got a link to one. Then I blew it up and compared it to the Dharma symbols on Lostpedia. Sure enough it is one, and it has a lighthouse in the center. So apparently, Hawking is manning an off-island Dharma station.... The Lighthouse.

    I read where several fans believe it was Hurleys voice repeating the numbers on the radio tower signal. I am about to go in for a second viewing and plan to listen closely to that again. (Heard when the French team were walking through the jungle.) How wild would that be???!!! After he went to so much trouble to find the origin of those numbers.... to find that HE was the origin! I hope its true!

    This post wasn't as long the first time I wrote it.
  8. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I hear you, jeminei! It is really confusing!

    Thanks for the explanations, 4everkid.

    You know, I just remembered Ben saying that Annie had died. We know how easily he lies, though.

    I thought that Ben turned the wheel for good reasons -- to hide the island in order to save the people on the island from being killed by Widmore's minions. But maybe it was also selfishly to keep the island out of Widmore's grasp.

    I wish we knew more about the Dharma Institute.

    Did anyone look up the Indian Airline that was printed on the water bottle? The re-run suggested that they have a website. I haven't looked yet.


    [This Message was Edited on 02/13/2009]
  9. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I looked at the ajira site. It is like a (fictional) airline that takes people on fantasy trips... to places that sound like our island. Hmm...wonder if its a one way ticket?

    I don't remember Ben saying that Annie died. Not that he didn't... just that I don't remember when he said it. It does kind of ring a distant bell though. That may be why at one time, I figured she might have died as a result of the childbearing issues. I remember after we saw the purge and what happened there, everyone wondered about Annie... surely he wouldn't have gassed her!

    Hiding the island was the reason why Locke was supposed to turn the wheel. Why Ben broke the rules and did it himself is yet to be discovered.

    I expect we will find out more about Dharma. I hope so! We did see Daniel at the Orchid with the Dharma workers, so I fully expect them to travel to that era. This season would not be complete without a trip there, IMO.

    Most of what I say here is speculation, not fact. All that stuff about Ben's possible motives is just my own guess as to what is going on. The stuff about Ben & Annie being Charlotte's parents seems to be the general consensus of the fans, and is also speculation based on the info we have been given.

    In spite of everything I said about Ben, there is still this other side of me that wonders if he really is a good guy. That would be the real shocker! And sometimes the things that seem obvious turn out to be completely wrong, and it's the thing you least expected to happen. It's just fun trying to figure it all out in advance.
  10. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    No definitive answer yet on whose voice it was saying the numbers on the radio transmission. But I found a site where they have an audio so you can listen yourself and decide. Easier than listening to it on the show, with all the jungle and smokey noises.


    What does everyone think?
  11. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Sometimes Ben is such a despicable character and sometimes you just want to believe him. Like when he slammed on the brakes and told Sun & Jack that he had done so much to protect them. Like what??? Protect them from who? Widmore?? He's a very complicated character and Michael Emerson does a fantastic job portraying him.

    I agree that Ben seemed surprised to hear that Eloise Hawking was Daniel's mom.

    What is up with Charlotte saying that a crazy old man told her that if she came back to the island, she would die--and that crazy old man was Daniel? Huh? We saw Daniel back with the Dharma group when they were underground and looking at a picture of what was on the other side of the wall--the donkey wheel. But he was still young looking Daniel. So he grew old back then and talked to a young Charlotte??? Has he been traveling through time all along? Maybe he did a Richard Alpert and stayed young. But then it doesn't make sense that young Charlotte saw him old!! AAAAAaaackk!

    And how did Charlotte know that the wheel was at the well?

    I loved it when Sawyer was holding the rope and they time flashed and suddenly the rope went into the ground. I loved Miles saying "I think you can let go of that now". I just love Miles. He has great one liners.

    When Ben only brought Sun, Jack and Desmond to the church, he told Eloise that that was all he could manage. She said that will have to do. Let's get started. Started on what? I can't wait to see what's next!!

  12. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    It DOES sound like Hurley to me! Did you read Zack's explanation? A time loop. I like that theory. It could work! Thanks for that link, 4everkid.

    Speaking of the numbers, did you notice that Ben went to Slip 23 at the marina to try to get everyone to go back? So they are continuing to use the numbers. Still a mystery, though.
  13. jemenei

    jemenei New Member

    I don't even remember them reading the numbers this episode! That was just this Wednesday? Now I really am confused. I'm afraid I must have missed lots of stuff! Oh and I'm both Jemini's too. Sorry about that!!! I had an old account that I thought was gone but I guess not cause I must have signed on under it without even thinking but it wouldn't let me use it when I tried to sign up (cause I spelled it wrong) so whoever I am I was born in June lol. Now really back to Lost cause I know this isn't all about me! I really think I need to start all over from the begining of Lost and watch every episode and take notes! I tried that fuselage site and got so confused on their boards. I'll have to keep trying. Has anyone started all over to figure out what is going on or do you think they are just now starting to explain things?
  14. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    TwinMa - Yes Ben is a truly complicated guy! Today I am leaning even more towards believing that he has been a good guy all along, but will stop at nothing to achieve his goals. Even back when he was fake Henry Gale... I couldn't decide - Henry or liar? Good or bad? Michael Emerson is amazing!

    I believe the Orchid drilling scene was presented as a flashback. Daniel was there (we assume) because he time traveled there from now. It just hasn't happened yet. So in other words, in an upcoming episode, he will travel to that time in the past, sometime in the early to mid 80's when Charlotte was a child. He will then give her that warning.

    How did Charlotte know about the well? Maybe her parents were someone important who knew all the secrets. Just a guess.

    I loved Locke's final words to his companions. He told Miles, "see you when I get back." Is this because Miles talks to dead people and Locke knows he's about to die? I was glad Juliet thought to thank him for what he was doing. Does she know his sacrifice? And Locke went out with a big smile! I love him too!

    TwinMa & Kina - I agree. It does sound like Hurley, especially the 23 & 42. If he had thrown in a couple of "dudes" we would know for sure!

    Jemenei - Don't feel bad. They had the numbers tucked quietly into the background. I'm sure millions of people never heard them. It was in the scene when the French team was walking through the jungle looking for their missing friend. The numbers were very quiet, with lots of jungle sounds almost drowning them out. It was the sound of the original transmission from the radio tower - the one Danielle changed to her call for help that ran for 16 years. I don't know if they were hearing it in the distance, or on their radios.

    A lot of fans go back and watch old episodes. They get more out of them the more they watch. Way back when this show started, I heard that everything, every prop, etc is chosen specifically. Every name means something. You have to pay attention to the background, the props, the signs... everything, cause the writers and prop people put clues in there. Names like Mittelos (lost time), Canton-Rainier (reincarnation), Ethan Rom (Other man), Hoffs/Drawlar (flash forward)... the ones that sound odd, usually turn out to be anagrams. Plus, Lost is like one gigantic mystery, that everyone loves trying to figure out.

    There are tons of cultural and literary references. Lots of Wizard of Oz, Alice In Wonderland, Stephen King.. lots more. Lots of game references, mythology, religion... You can find all of that on Lostpedia on the pages for each episode.

    On the other hand, it is designed so that you can just watch and enjoy without trying to dig for clues. You can just enjoy the well drawn characters and the wild adventure without ever digging for anything more. Some people just want to find out who Kate ends up with.

    I could see how The Fuselage would be a bit overwhelming to a newcomer. There are a gazillion sub topics. I usually stick to the board covering the most recent episode. Heres a link directly to the season 5 episodes. Click on "This Place is Death" for this weeks discussions. Next week, move on to the new one.

    Like TwinMa, I am excited to find out what "let's get started" means!
  15. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    There's loads of Star Trek references. Those are fun for us trekkies.

    Forebearance talked about the French team seeming possessed after they were dragged into the hole (I agree). Then 4everkid talked about wondering if that would have happened to Locke if he had been dragged all the way into the hole by Smokey. He didn't get dragged all the way in because they tossed dynamite into the hole. Here's a thought. Maybe since it was only Locke's legs that were touched by Smokey, that is why his legs keep getting injured. He's had more than his share of leg problems. Hmmm.....
  16. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Interesting observation TwinMa! He has certainly had a LOT of leg injuries his whole life.

    When the story of Lost was first conceived, it was titled "The Circle." It is becoming more and more apparent that these characters are living in a time loop. The O6 have to return so they can go to the past and create the future as we have seen it. This is a theory that the fans have been discussing for a while. It is just becoming more obvious over time.

    For example:
    Desmond had to push the buttons and turn the key. It had an effect on a lot of things that have already happened. The crash of 815 for one. If he had changed his path when he returned to '96 and married Penny then, none of what we know would have happened.

    If Desmond had not turned the key, (which uncloaked the island) the freighter folks would never have found the island. Daniel would never have gone back and told the group in '54 to bury the bomb....

    All of them have work to do on the island - what they already did in a previous time loop. If they are not there to do it, then God help them all.

    If that was Hurley recording the numbers - He has to return to the island and go back to the past and record them like he did before. That recording lead the French team to the island, and eventually Hurley himself.

    This is why the O6 must return. They all play some part in the circular destiny they have created for themselves. Every action has a reaction and a broadening effect on other things. Like a butterfly effect, even the tiniest occurrences have an effect on the chain of events.

    They were not supposed to leave. Locke tried to tell them! Now, Queen of the course correctors is trying to guide them back to their pre-determined path, to continue with whatever it is they are supposed to do.

    This doesn't explain the whole show and every mystery, by any means, but I think it is a big part of it.

    Again, I must say... the writers are geniuses! I don't want this show to ever end!

  17. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I don't know how the people that decide to watch episodes back-to-back so they can catch up, ever get anything out of the episodes. it takes me the full week to get everything figured out.

    About that well:

    Our group, already in the past, travel to the Orchid Station. Once there, another flash sends them further back in the past to before the Orchid was built. (Luckily Charlotte had told them to look for the well, if this happened.) They find the well, and Locke descends down the rope to the ancient wheel chamber. Another flash and the group is taken further back in time to before the well was built. But since Sawyer was holding the rope, it traveled with them in time. (Like the canoes did) The rope from the well time frame is still lodged in the ground.

    Another scene from the past:
    Someone... maybe Dharma kids.... whoever... discover a rope in the ground. They pull on it but it wont budge. Eventually someone decides to dig it up to find out where it leads and solve the mystery. The "well" is built in the process. They discover the ancient chamber, and the mysterious energy. Then the Dharma scientists decide to build the Orchid Station to make use of the 'negatively charged exotic matter.' They discover the ancient treadwheel, and eventually learn how to use this to manipulate time.

    If Sawyer had not been there in the past, holding that rope, none of this would have happened. The energy may have never been discovered, the orchid built, the island moved.... The circle would have been broken.

    Every little thing they do has an effect on the past, present and future. And they must all be there to do these things as they always did. Jack, Kate, Sun, etc, all play some part in the islands past. If they are not there to do the things they have always done in the past, life as they know it will no longer exist. We don't know exactly what their jobs are, but if that little rope had that much effect on the outcome of the future, there is no telling what will go wrong as a result of the O6 not being there to do their work.

    I think I said this once before, but I will say it again. I think we should all earn some kind of degree once we complete this series!
  18. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    I finally watched a second time over the weekend. Jemenei, I saw that red star on Jin's back you mentioned. I never saw that the first time, and pictured a big star. But it was just a teeny, tiny star on his shoulder. Strange.

    I saw where one person wondered about it, and someone else replied that maybe it was just the brand of clothing and their own personal way of marking their logo. So I googled. I saw words in the search results that mentioned a star logo on the back shoulder of some brand, but never actually found a shirt that showed it.

    Very observant of you! Even if it is just a brand logo, it still could mean something. I have no idea what. But they did focus on it.

    Back in the first season, they focused on the start in the night sky a lot. The constellations seemed to be displayed backwards. Someone, I think Jorge (Hurley), once said to pay attention to the stars. Nothing ever came of it, so far.

    A red star is the symbol for China. Miles is of Chinese descent. MarvinPierre Candlewickwax too. Jin bought a Panda for the Chinese ambassador. Jacks tattoo has Chinese characters, not Taiwanese, like we would expect. And there have been a lot of shirts and jewelry with Chinese symbols. Then there are all the Buddhism references..."Dharma" and "Namaste" and a whole lot more.

    How this could all relate to that tiny red star, I have no clue. But they seemed to show like they wanted us to notice it.
  19. jemini

    jemini New Member

    Well I'm so glad it might mean something!!! LOL I sit glued to the TV screen waiting to notice something that means something and then I come here and am like....OH I missed that!!!! OH! I missed that too!!! OH!!! I can't believe I even missed that!!! LOL Probably it means nothing cause really. Lost is so far over my head it isn't even funny. I still love it though and it is fascinating to come here and read all about it! I don't know what I'll do when it ends!!!
  20. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    TwinMa, I think Charlotte said a "crazy man", not a crazy old man.

    Or, if she did, any adult would look old to a little kid.

    Wow, all the talk about circles of time blows my mind! Whew!

    I love the example of Sawyer holding the rope in the ground above the donkey wheel affecting the whole Dharma Initiative and the future.

    i can't wait, too, to find out what Eloise Hawking is going to do with the people who showed up. And what about Desmond? He had no intention of going back to the island, and yet Ben and Eloise are lumping him in with the others. When is he going to protest?

    If Eloise works with/for Ben, and Daniel works for Widmore, that is interesting.

    Wow, the numbers being read do sound like Hurley! And we've never heard that original transmission before, have we?

    And I couldn't remember what happened when Locke went down Smokey's lair hole. Didn't he say it was beautiful there? It really makes me wonder about that temple. What is it all about? Smokey seems to be able to detect goodness/badness in people and makes moral judgements. So why did he dislike the Dharma-ites so much?

    I relate to what you said, Jemini. I haven't been to the fuselage site yet, because I already have to work so hard to remember everything and I am afraid I might get someone's theory mixed up with what really happened on the show.