.·:*:·..·*LOST*·..·:*:·. #8: "La Fleur"

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by 4everkid, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Tonight: "La Fleur" a Sawyer-centric episode

    This episode runs 62 minutes long - so set your tapes for an extra few minutes. This is also the halfway point of season 5. Bummer! It feels like we just got started.

    Sounds like we are in for a wild ride tonight though. Lost of unexpected turns, cans-of-worms opening, and a another game changer! I don't know what any of these twists and turns are, thankfully, but I am excited at the prospect.

    Game Changer:
    1. A term used by fans of a TV show/work of fiction to describe an attempt by the writers/creator(s) to twist the narrative on its head by introducing something so completely unexpected that it puts a completely new spin on things and forces the viewer to assess their opinion or perception of where said fiction/show is ultimately headed.

    I love game changers! Lost has had many. The reveal of the Swan station, the reveal of Otherville, the moving of the island, the time travel... what else could these writers possibly come up with???

    I can't wait to find out!!
  2. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Wow! Cool episode!

    So Sawyer and Juliet hooked up! I think we all saw that coming.

    I love the way there is a love rectangle instead of just a love triangle. It's more interesting.

    Now what will Sawyer and Jin do with the people who have returned?
    And how many years is it until the purge happens? I hope our people are gone by then. Or safe somehow.

    AND, is Ben on the island in two places at once? How is that possible? LOL

  3. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    That WAS a good episode. I was so excited to finally see more of the 4 toed statue, even if it was just for a few seconds and from behind. What we did see was quite revealing! Here he is:


    Notice the pointed ears and the ankh symbols in each hand? Could this be the Egyptian god Anubis? Anubis was the god to protect the dead and bring them to the afterlife. He weighed the hearts of the dead to determine if they were worthy to pass on to the afterlife.

    There is a picture of him here, and more info:

    That combined with the things we learned about the hostiles tonight has my head spinning. What is this place anyway?

    For some reason it was super important to Richard to get the bodies of his dead hostiles back.

    Remember when the Other named Colleen was killed and they had a ceremony in which they set her body out to sea on a flaming funeral pyre? Is this the proper way to send the dead to the afterlife? It seems the ones that don't get buried tend to pop back to life. Christian, Yemi, Locke & Horace Goodspeed were not buried, and we have seen them walking around in various states of undead. And why did the hosties throw all the dharma bodies in a open grave? Were they not deemed good enough for the afterlife?

    I guess we have two weeks to process all this.

    I never would have thunk it, but I liked Sawyer and Juliet together. Jin is speaking fluent English now. And Miles and "Jim LaFleur" refer to each other as Boss and Enos. (Never expected a Dukes of Hazzard reference.) LOVED when Sawyer called Richard "your friend with the eyeliner."

    What's up with Horace and his tree destruction? Tonight he was blowing up trees. Last time we saw him, he was chopping down the same tree over and over, to build the cabin Jacob now resides in.

    Weird how they went to all this trouble to bring the O6 back to save them, and they are all just fine, and living happy lives. IMO, the O6 are the ones who needed saving. Poor Sawyer. This is going to be awkward.

    Its still a long time till the purge Forebearance. tonight we flipped between 1974 and 1977. The purge happens in 1992. As for Ben being on the island in 2 places at once... We don't have any exact dates on him. He may already be there, or coming very soon. But the time is about right for his arrival. That is going to be strange for them to see this innocent little boy, knowing he grows up to be the Ben we know.

    There is however some question as to whether the people who ended up on Hydra island with 314 and Locke, may be in a different time. If it were 1974, it seems they would have run into some of the Dharma people. But the place was rundown and abandoned, and the plane landed on the edge of the runway that was built in 2004, as far as we know. I guess we will find out in 2 weeks.

    Anyone wonder who Amy and Horaces baby is? Hurley was born in 1977, so if its someone we know from the future, they should be about Hurleys age in 2004.

    I am super confused about the little red-headed girl that Dan thought was tiny Charlotte. It was 1974 in that scene. Charlotte wasn't born till 1979. It couldn't have been her. If for some reason the info Ben had on her was altered to protect her identity, it would make sense. So maybe Bens info was wrong on her date of birth.

    Richard was creepy in this episode. I always thought he was a good guy, but now I'm not so sure. His need to take Paul's body back with them can't be a good thing. I wondered if Paul would serve as a sacrifice of some kind. But now I am convinced they cast this guy to play Richard just because he has the Egyptian eyeliner thing going on.

    James "Sawyer" Ford/Jim La Fleur ..... by any name ... cuter than ever! How adorable was that - him picking that big yellow flower for Juliet? I just wanted to squeeze him!

  4. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Yes, I had the same thought about Anubis. They are suddenly adding all these ancient Eygptian references into the mix. First the hieroglyphics on the temple wall, then Hurley painting the Sphinx, then the four-toed statue looking like Anubis, then the Ankh necklace that Paul had.

    I'm trying to remember if ancient Eygptian stuff was "cool" in the 70s. I think maybe it was.

    It bugs me a little that the first time we saw the feet of the four-toed statue, they looked Polynesian in style and now the whole statue looks Egyptian. That's a little inconsistency.

    YEAH, I'm wondering that same thing about when in time Locke and the 314 survivors are! The Hydra station should have been in use in the late 70s. The guards who watched the monitors were even joking about the polar bears getting out!

    But I am somehow glad that the Oceanic Six are all in the same time as the ones who were left behind. At least they have each other. But I still wonder what happened to Rose and Bernard. Are they going to be the skeletons in the cave??

    Yeah, Richard was creepy! If the "Others" didn't like the Dharma-ites, how did they allow them to build their whole complex on the island?
  5. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Yes Fore, Egyptian stuff was popular in the 70's. At least the ankh symbol Paul wore was.

    The timeline has Ben's arrival at roughly 76-77. So he should be there by 77. Of course, Sawyer won't know that since Ben told him he was born on the island.

    Confusion: When we first met Horrace, he was there on the road after Bens birth, with Olivia, who we assumed was his wife. After Ben came to the island, Olivia was his teacher in a scene where they were studying the islands volcano. Horrace is with Amy now. So what happened with Olivia? Did they divorce, or is she his sister or something?

    I have decided to accept that that was little Charlotte that waved to Dan. I am going to go with the theory that in the information Ben had on her, her birthdate and maybe other parts were changed to protect her former islander identity. The cute little smile and wave was just too meaningful and heartbreaking for her to have been someone else.

    Good question about the Others allowing Dharma to build on their island. Dharma must have convinced them they were there for the good of the island somehow. Still, its hard to believe they would accept that.

    When I first saw that statue, it looked like a female with long hair. On my old tv, there is little detail. Only after I looked at the online screencap did I see the ears and the ankh symbols in its hands. But that still looks like long hair to me. And the ears aren't nearly as tall as the ones we see on Anubis. Still, Anubis fits well with everything else in this episode. Maybe they wanted us to jump to that conclusion given all the other Egyptian references. The square shaped object on its head has me wondering if we are on the wrong track. I guess now I will anticipate seeing the front of the statue. I half expect it to have the face of someone we know.

    I didn't see any "game changer" at the end of this episode! Our people joining Dharma could be considered a mild one I guess. I had read an interview with the woman who plays Amy. She said all that stuff about this episode. She said it ended with a game changer and she wasn't sure how they would even film it. A friend suggested that this may be one of those situations where the writers moved scenes around, and maybe shoved the GC to another episode.

    Originally 316 and Jeremy Bentham were going to be shown in the opposite order. We would have seen Locke resurrected before seeing them learn how to get back. Glad they changed that. Also the scene that opened last week, with Ceaser going through the drawers in the abandoned Hydra station followed by the unveiling of the resurrected Locke, was originally planned to be the opening scene of the season.
    [This Message was Edited on 03/05/2009]
  6. jemini

    jemini New Member

    Oh I'm so confused! I tried to just watch this episode. I didn't try to figure stuff out as it was going or stop and rewind to see things again or anything. Just watch it and take it in. Well I am as confused as ever and am going to watch the whole thing again! I did really like the guy with the eyeliner comment too and also did you guys notice the Dharma Merlot on the table when Sawyer walked in w/the flower? I love this show. You guys are so smart. I need to read your posts again and then watch it again and then come back and read again. I think I need to budget LOST time into my schedule!!! Monday, Tuesday, Lostday, Thursday...
  7. Ninilchicken

    Ninilchicken New Member

    Do you remember if anyone from 816 knew about the purge, other than maybe Locke, because he found the bodies? I'm trying to decide if Le Fleur will have a heads up.

    Interesting to learn about the truce. I can see immediately killing army guys who are putting a big bomb on your island, but Richard must have given the Dharma hippies the benefit of the doubt, until they had the incident at the hatch and had to build the pressure valve and then getting too close to whatever is at the bottom of the well, pushed him over the edge.
  8. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I could just eat him up! I didn't think I'd like seeing Sawyer with Juliet, but I do, I do! They are so happy and relaxed together. They have good chemistry, too. That flower scene just melted me.

    It did make me a bit sad when Horace asked if you could get over someone in just three years and Sawyer described how he couldn't stop thinking about someone about three years ago, and now he could barely remember what she looked like. So can you get over someone in three years "Absolutely." Ouch. I never liked how Kate jumped between Sawyer and Jack and kept them both on the hook, so I'm not broken up that he's over her. But still, that was a painful comment.

    You guys are just too brilliant with all your Egyptian knowledge. I did recognize that it was an ankh that Horace found in the sock drawer. What a wus! He's got a preggers wife about to pop anytime, he finds an old necklace that belonged to her dead husband and he goes on a major bender! That doesn't seem like a good enough reason to get trashed and blow up trees, does it?

    Here's my big contribution this week. My favorite quote:

    Doctor tells Sawyer that Amy's baby is breech. Sawyer tells him to just do a C-section.

    Doctor: "I'm an internist, not an obstetrician!!"

    Yeah Star Trek reference!! The only thing missing was "Damn it, Jim!" And THAT would have fit, too. he he

    Ninilchicken, I'm pretty sure Juliet knew about the purge. She said she lived in that house for 3 years and then the Others (plus Ben) killed off the Dharma people (well before Juliet joined the Others). Then the Others moved into the houses.

    I have to say, I'm really getting my Dharma and Others mixed up, so 4everkid or Fore, please correct me if I explained that incorrectly!
  9. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Jemini - if you are confused about the time, they started out in some time way in the past where they saw the statue, but just for a few seconds. Then they flashed to 1974, where they stayed. Then over the next 3 years, they joined up with Dharma and lived a happy life. They did some flipping back and forth between 1974 and 1977. I hesitate to call the 1977 scenes flashforwards, because we viewers are moving up to that time, when they meet back up with the returning members of the O6.

    You can tell what time they are in by Sawyers clothes. He is wearing his Dharma jumpsuit in 1977.
    Does that help? Or is the confusion deeper than that?

    Ninilchicken - that is a good question! I will see if I can find out if anyone besides John knows about the purge. We knew about it before Ben told John over the mass grave. Just not sure who else has heard. Since they never discuss important island discoveries with each other, its hard to tell. TwinMa is right, surely Juliet knows.
    I was looking for info about the purge and came across this quote from Ben to John over the Dharma grave:

    """"This is where I came from, John. These are my people. The DHARMA Initiative. They came here seeking harmony, but they couldn't even coexist with the Island's original inhabitants. And when it became clear that one side had to go, one side had to be purged, I did what I had to do. I was one of the people that was smart enough to make sure that I didn't end up in that ditch. Which makes me considerably smarter than you, John."""" (then he shoots John.)

    So that kind of explains why the hostiles were willing to try coexisting with Dharma. They were seeking harmony.

    TwinMa - I agree completely on Juliet and Sawyer. I have never completely trusted her, and cringed at the thought of them together. But it worked. On top of that, now I really like her. I was actually worried for her when two-timing Kate showed back up.

    I missed the Star Trek reference! Good catch TwinMa!
    [This Message was Edited on 03/05/2009]
  10. Ninilchicken

    Ninilchicken New Member

    Didn't Juliet get there after the purge? Ben was the one who hired her and an other?(Ethan or Richard) met her in California, before she was put on the sub and sent to the island. It was interesting to hear that the Dharma people sent their women off the island to have their babies. I wonder why the Others didn't just keep up with that practice, because Tom had said he occasionally left the island to do business, and forget about Juliet all together.

    The Dharmites do remind me of hippies. Maybe the agreement between the Others and Dharma was to not dig too deep into what the island could do. Curiousity killed the cat and Dharma was getting too close to the things that no one could control, the electromagnet in the hatch and the time rock in the Orchid.
  11. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    In the posts above, I mentioned the 2 times we visited on the island as 1974 and 1979. I meant 1977 instead of 79. I went back and corrected all of them.

    The purge happened in December 19, 1992 at 4:00 pm, on Bens birthday. Juliet arrived on the island Sept 21, 2001. Desmond also arrived in 2001.

    Mikhail (Patchy the one eyed guy) told Kate and Sayid about the purge when they went to the Flame Station. Locke played a computer game while they talked. But Locke heard about it from Ben too.

    Daniel and Charlotte also knew about the purge when they went to the Tempest Station to neutralize the gas to prevent Ben from killing everyone on the island again. So maybe Miles knows too, since they do.
    So between Locke, Kate, Sayid and Dan, surely someone will be expecting it.

    I like your idea of what the arrangement could have meant Ninilchicken. I have always imagined that the natives had some secret way to tap into the islands magical powers naturally. Then Dharma comes along with all this technology and starts raping the island of its magic. Not to mention intrusive. How many stations have they built?? There seems to be no end to new stations, tunnels... and they brought freakin Polar Bears! The Swan alone was like a reactor that could blow at any minute. Not to mention, the Hostiles have that pesky hydrogen bomb tucked away somewhere. They dont want anyone digging that up!

    Hippies. I love it! Did anyone catch the Grateful Dead references? I didn't myself, but Lostpedia mentions it. Phil and Jerry were the young guys manning the security cameras, with girlfriend Rosie. These may have been reference to Phil Lesh and Jerry Garcia of The Grateful Dead. Roses were a recurring symbol in GD's art, album covers and lyrics. They had a song called "Ramble On Rose."

    And remember that stuff about how Anubis determines who is worthy enough to proceed to the afterlife? I guess those who make it are the "grateful dead" souls.

    Sawyers mention of how news of Horaces drunken tree-exploding spree will make it out on the "coconut telegraph " is from lyrics of a Jimmy Buffet song. He also once used the term "coconut internet" with Charlie.

    I think its interesting how Sawyer the former murdering con artist is head of security. Jin a former hit man, also now making people's lives secure. Juliet the former fertility doctor is now operating on automobiles.

    It struck me funny, because over the summer I was playing one of the Lost alternate reality games called "The Project". It involved a series of really bizarre tests and questionnaires that fans took, in an attempt to join Dharma. The tests were supposedly to determine if you were worthy, and what your job would be. It was like a pretend recruiting project for the revival of Dharma.

    Me and my daughter in law got these tests by email every week and took them. We had no idea what it was leading to or what it would mean. But we took the test on blind faith. Kind of like button pushers, we decided. Another psychological experiment to see how far fans would go when they didn't know why they were doing it, or to what end.

    I ended up passing (whatever that means) and was given the job of Dharma bricklayer. Bricklayer???? Oookay. I scored highest on medical questions. How that makes me bricklayer material I don't know. I wonder if thats the same test Juliet took and wound up as a mechanic?

    Turned out that due to the failing economy, the writers had to pull the plug on the game. So we never did find out what would come of us with our new job titles.

    [This Message was Edited on 03/05/2009]
  12. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Jemini, I loved the Dharma merlot!

    Ninilchicken, I watched the episode again, and saw Juliet describe the purge to Jin, Sawyer, and Miles. So they all know about it now.

    One thing that is bugging me now: why did the Others want Paul’s dead body??? What could they possibly want that for? Creepy!

    And hey, weren’t the Others the ones who broke the truce by killing Paul and trying to kidnap Amy???

  13. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Forebearance - I have been wondering about why they took Paul too. (And you are right! They broke the truce!) Supposedly they took him to show the other Others that they got retribution for the death of their guys. But I think there is more to it.

    Horrace told Amy that the Dharma community was willing to pay the consequences if she chose not to turn Paul's body over to them - like something bad would come of his body. But she said he would want to do whats best for them.

    Somethings to consider:
    When one of their own (Colleen) died, they had a captive Jack attend the funeral. They put her body on a flaming funeral pyre and sent her out to sea.
    When the hostiles killed the entire Dharma group, they left them in an open pit. Maybe they didn't feel the Dharma people were worthy of a proper burial.

    The people whose bodies were not buried in the ground are still "active". Christian, Eko's brother Yemi the priest, Locke, and Claire, (if she is really dead) have been seen appearing alive on the island.

    So I wonder if the unburied bodies do not officially pass on to the afterlife, or if Smokey inhabits them, or something. I suspect that the 2 dead hostiles will get the funeral pyre treatment, and Paul will be sacrificed to the island, Smokey or whatever.

    And why did they kill Paul? Some people wondered if he was an other who crossed to the Dharma side, since he was wearing the ankh. Kind of a Romeo/Juliet thing with Amy. I wondered if they killed him because he wore the ankh - the sign their god is carrying two of in its hands. Maybe they didn't like seeing this Dharma poser wearing their sacred symbol as a hippie fashion statement. I would love to hear the conversation that preceded Paul's death.

    I just came up with a crazy connection:
    "Paul is dead" - a Beatles reference
    Beatles - beetle - scarab
    In ancient Egypt the scarab beetle is associated with rebirth, renewal, and resurrection.
  14. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    LOL! Paul is dead. I love it, 4everkid!

    I bet they did that on purpose! I love the connection you thought of about scarabs too.

    I think we are getting hints of something that is going to be shocking. Perhaps we are going to find out something about the Others and the Temple.

    I had the same sudden thought that you had: maybe they need Paul's body for some kind of ritual sacrifice.

    And I'd like to hear the conversation that preceded Paul's death, too. I got the impression that he was probably killed in an attempt to prevent the Others from kidnapping Amy. But why did they want to kidnap Amy? For a ritual sacrifice?

    Does the Temple demand young pretty women once in a while? hee hee I wonder what exactly happened to those kidnapped Tailies whom we haven't seen much of.

    Oh this train of thought is getting so weird!

    The strangest thing of all is, if the Others are some kind of cult of some ancient god who brings bodies back to life, or something like that, then why do the Others speak perfect American English and use the trappings of modern civilization, like walkie talkies?

  15. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Just a reminder: Lost will not be on tonight. At least not a NEW episode. They will be showing a rerun of LaFleur in the usual time slot though. Lost will return next week with a new episode titled "Namaste."

    Not sure why they did this when they promised no breaks. I have heard that it's because they want the season finale to fall on sweeps week. Can't blame them for that I guess.

    I guess that just gives us more time to discuss the last episode.
  16. jemini

    jemini New Member

    What a bummer that last night wasn't new! I didn't watch the rerun cause there were other good shows on to watch. Anyone watch it and pick up something they missed? I was thinking about the "others" clothes...is there an other's mall where they pick up their 70s attire? Sawyer had on his new glasses too. Is there a LOST Lenscrafters where he could pick out a sexy pair of perfect frames cause I gotta say they couldn't be more flattering! I go to the eye doc and can pick from certain ones and I've never come out looking that hot! I think I have given this too much thought.
  17. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    LOL Jemini about your Sawyer fixation! hee hee

    I did notice something new from re-watching the episode. I wondered if maybe Amy and Paul did break the truce after all by picnicking in a place they weren't supposed to be. I remember from the early episodes that the Others were very territorial.

    It's frustrating that we don't know what the terms of the truce were. We don't know the history of the relations between the Dharma Initiative and the Others. We're so in the dark!

    I thought that maybe they were showing a re-run because it's spring break week for many people. I'm looking forward to next week!
  18. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Good question about the clothes jemini. I would have thought that the Dharma people came with their own clothes, and were issued a Dharma Jumpsuit, but our people had trendy 70's wear of their own. Loved Sawyers paisley shirt! And Juliet was wearing a little hippie tunic. Did they luck into a Dharmaville yard sale or something? Is there a Dharmatown Mall tucked away in some hidden valley?

    And those poor hostiles, they must be left to scavenge clothes from the people they kill. At least they have their own unique look. They all have the distressed, vintage khakis and the muddy brown-colored t-shirts. A very "earthy" look.

    Except for Richard. I am pretty sure he makes regular trips back to the mainland where he does all his shopping at Black Shirts-R-Us. Of course, he has his distressed primitive wear for his jungle outings, but the man likes to stand out in a crowd. Always wearing the black shirt and dark pants. Just once, I would love to see him step out of the jungle in an all white ensemble, Fantasy Island style.
  19. jemini

    jemini New Member

    Hehehe the Dharmaville yard sale! I like it!!! I just can't see them stocking the sub with clothes every trip when they need that room for Dharma Merlot and Beer etc!

    At first when they were looking from far away before they knew it was the picnic I thought it was when they were nabbing Kate and them with the bags over their heads a while back. I still don't have a firm grasp on the time travel thing. I wonder if they were in a restricted area or something. I didn't even think of that. I wish they would go into the truce and all.

    I can't wait for them to show what is in Hurley's bag!!!!
  20. 4everkid

    4everkid New Member

    Forebearance & Jemini,
    Fore, you are probably right about the truce involving the DI staying out of the Hostiles territory. When young Ben went outside the fence looking for his dead Mom, Richard was right there to ask if he was lost. And as you said, that first confrontation the Losties had with Mr. Friendly and crew in the jungle was all about how they had crossed some line.

    That may be why the Dharma people built the tunnels, assuming it was them who built them. (They are labeled "subterranean conduits" on the blast door map and other maps they have found.) We only saw the tunnels once that I remember... when Ben & Juliet were walking through one to reach the Pearl station. But I think some of them are sealed up now.