Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Spedding, Oct 31, 2002.
-[This Message was Edited on 11/09/2002]
Don't take it personally. I, for one, dont' read all the threads, and I'm sure there are others who do the same. What prompts me to read them are the titles, and since I don't have FM, I pretty much skip those posts. And, if it makes you feel any better (lol) I didn't read any posts on the other dr. you mentioned. Again, the titles are what attract my attention, and apparently the posts that dealt with him didn't stick out at me.
You make a very good point. We are all so desperate for anyone with "doctor" after their name to take us seriously, that we jumped to tell this guy anything and everything, (including me). For all we know, he could be some kind of a perv who gets off on hearing about people's bodily discomforts. Who knows? Try not to take it personally.
I brought up the threads about Fluoride - a few latched on to them - like suze and others -= but it went nowhere.
And I am definitly poisoned. It is easy to diagnose - at home - without a doctor - at no cost, just consume a lot of fluoride through decaf green tea for a few days and see if your symptoms get worse.
I also sent the good Dr. this info about adrenal insuffency and how it relates to fluoride exposure with no response.
For some reason, in CFS patients, there may be a hypersensitivity to epinephrine. This is our "flight or fight" response AKA adrenaline. The cause COULD be ingesting a prosecuter of epinephrine, but most people here have never even ingested ephedra or sudafed. What I am saying is the hypersensivity could have been caused by extended periods of epinephrine release in the body (due to stress responses or perhaps illnesses). During this time, the body become hypersensitive to the hormone that is naturally produced in the body. When released in normal amounts, you become fatigued and tired and the immune system goes crazy etc...
Sakuma, Nobuhiko and Nagasaka, Nobuo: Changes in urinary excretion of catecholamines and their metabolites in pediatric dental patients. J Dent Child, 63:118-122, March-April 1996.
To explain the changes in urinary excretion of catecholamines and their metabolites in pediatric dental patients, comparative measurements of three catecholamines (dopamine, noradrenaline and adrenaline), and five metabolites (3, 4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid, normetanephrine, metanephrine, homovanillic acid, and vanillylmandelic acid) were made before and after dental treatment. The investigations were carried out in seven healthy young children between three and five years of age. All these children had previously displayed negative behavior in dental treament. There were statistically significant increases ( p;lt 0.05 ) in urinary noradrenaline, adrenaline, and normetanephrine levels during dental treatment. These results suggest that these three substances could be a useful tool for determining the occurrence of dental stress in children.
Dental stress; Children; Catecholamines
Material Safety Data Sheet IKON® B
contains a fluoroiodocarbon and hydrofluorocarbons
Based on animal studies, overexposure may cause central nervous system depression such as dizziness, confusion, incoordination, drowsiness, or unconsciousness. In susceptible individuals or possibly those with pre-existing cardiovascular system disease, this material may cause heightened sensitivity to circulating epinephrine (adrenaline) compounds resulting in irregular heart beats and sometimes death.
Administration of epinephrine (adrenaline) is contraindicated in the treatment of overexposure to this product
TETRAFLUOROMETHANE - CF4
Exposures to high concentrations of this gas may
cause sensitization of the heart to adrenaline and nor-adrenaline.
Effects of such overexposure can include light-headedness,
giddiness, shortness of breath and in extreme cases, irregular
heartbeats, cardiac arrest, and death.
High concentrations of this gas can cause an oxygen-deficient
environment. Individuals breathing such an atmosphere may
experience symptoms which include headaches, ringing in ears,
dizziness, drowsiness, unconsciousness, nausea, vomiting, and
depression of all the senses. The skin of a victim of overexposure
may have a blue color. Under some circumstances of overexposure,
death may occur.
( There are lots of MSDS of fluorinated compounds that say the same thing - these are just two examples)
Reduced plasma cortisol levels in patients afflicted with fluorosis is reported for the first time. Fluoride treated animals also produced less cortisol and revealed adrenocortical hypofunction. The study also revealed for the first time, pituitary gland hypofunction which is possibly the reason for adrenal insufficiency in the production of steroid hormone. Fluoride toxicity was shown to impair cortisol production, thereby altering the bone matrix constitution both organic and inorganic, leading to defective and abnormal mineralization process.
Fluoride may affect testosterone synthesis. Rao and Susheela have reported a decrease in the [sigma] 5-3-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase levels in rabbits treated with fluoride. Das and Susheela have reported decreased serum glueocorticoids in skeletal fluorosis patients and in rabbits treated with 10 mg NaF/kg/d for 18 mos as compared to controls. The study reported pituitary gland hypofunction during chronic fluoride toxicity as the reason for the decreased adrenal production of cortisol. Although fluoride does affect steroid metabolism, its effect on testosterone synthesis merits investigation.
Fluoride may affect the pituitary gland and has been reported to cause a decrease in the pituitary weight in rats treated with fluoride. Das and Susheela reported pituitary gland hypofunction resulting in secondary adrenal insufficiency and decreased cortisol production, although Cristiani reported an enlarged pituitary in guinea pigs fed a large amount of fluoride.
Laylander, JA. Nutrient/toxin interaction theory of the etiology and pathogenesis of chronic pain-fatigue syndromes. Journal of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 1999, 5, 1, part 1: 67-91 and part 2: 93-126.
Hypothesis suggesting that CFS and related disorders (like Gulf War Syndrome and fibromyalgia) may be the result of a relative excess of fluoride and relative deficiency of magnesium.
Obviously you didn't note my reply to the good doc. I don't buy into any theory without checking it out; however, I do applaud those who pursue theories because one of these days, someone is going to stumble onto something of value to us.
I did not even respond to the good doctor. I glanced over his post to see that he was not 'breaking' any rules, and that was about it.
I must have missed your Dr. Smythe as I do have Fibro, not CFS. But have not been here in a short while, and am still struggling to stay on the board as much as possible, due to a spider bit that affected (still having a problem) the tips of my fingers they are still numb, typing is a problem still.
I would imagine that anyone could come here claiming they were just about anything, and some of us would buy into it, but usually they who do this sort of thing, generally expose themselves after awhile!
I have not had too many good results with doctors, and am allergic to most meds, so I am truly interested in a more natural approach to this illness. Which I have had good results with.
As for RGE, I have never been a water drinker untill about 6 months ago, and I drink Evian bottled water. Before this I have been living for the last 25 years where there is deep well water. Before the wells, I only drank bottled Spring water!
Now I did take baths in city water, but I don't think that counts with the Fluoride, or does it?
Lots of people should be interested in both the posts you two have put up though, but sometimes people read and don't reply. I do this myself.
Have a goodevening!
I just found your post and am printing it out right now, its seven pages, so will read it tomorrow when I am more 'alert'!
Will let you know what I think about it. Does your doctor have a book out? I am big on reading books as I can lay down and do that!
Thanks for the reference to the post.
I don't think that all doctors are bad, I did have a great one when I was first diagnosed, but he died, and since them its been one battle after the other. Thats why I started educating myself, and then the board here. I truly did get more help here then anywhere else, except for some great books on Fibro. I now have over twenty of them!
Have a great evening.
I am watching CSI on tv, think I will learn anything there???
PS In a doctors office, I don't have my hands folded, I have my 'fist' clutched!!!!!
[This Message was Edited on 10/31/2002]
could not help, but reading your posts about Dr. Smythe again. Hope it will convince others as well because what one doctor does for one not necassarily will help another. This is something I find very difficult to understand that people try to be so very convincing and think one doctors treatments will help everybody. In this respect, although it is great to share, but as I wrote you, Dr. Smythe is by far not the answer to all of the problems of FMS. Well, you remember my comments about this doctor.
By the way, I also read the drjbeck message, and could not help but find it somehow strange and wonder sometimes, if the dr. in front of the name is really what they are. I for one never in my life used Ephreda, so what is he really up to? By the way, I am listening, but believing.....that is another story.
Happy Halloween to you too, and take care, Lucky
i try to tell people to read your posts as often as i can. even if just one part of Dr. Smythe's treatment helps you, that is a tremendous jump for those of us with fibo.
maybe people now on the board, do they think you are purposing a cure? but anyone who has fms has to know how muti-faceted it is. you could be doing the 3 things out of 4, and seem much better, but if you keep researching and find that 4th thing and you are in remission (better than saying cured) wouldn't it be worth the effort and time to pursue it.
for those out there, i know spedding has spent many hours putting together this information and is in the process of helping me and has spent a tremendous amount of his own personal time, we are fortunate to have someone like this stick it out on the board when they are feeling great now.
guess who spedding?
one thing that annoyed me (slightly, since more than slight annoyance it's not worth) about good dr breckenridge is that he showed *no* signs of compassion. He used (yes used) the members of the board in order to get some info that might possibly help him verify his theory. I'm a professor, and have in my working life seen many a (usually male, alas) young ambitious academic whose main if not only interest was his own success. dr breckenridge did not respond to any posts after two days, nor did he say "thank you for being my abiding guinea pigs". As to his theory, it is far too single minded as that it could explain what causes cfids. cfids is a syndrome, and different people get it in different ways, and have it in different ways. a good cfids doctor is one who wants to help you recover/get better, not someone who wants his theory verified.
enough venting ... (if he finds out new things about cfids, we should be grateful, of course, and I'm serious here)
ok so which one is it. the paragraphs of info contradict each other. The first one says flouride causes excess adreanline then 3 paragraphs down it says it causes pituitary insufficiency and hypo adrenaline. And surpresses cortisol production.
I know some of this stuff already cuz I had that VMA test done(it check your 24 hour urine sample for cortisol). I have panic disorder so the epinephrine and adrenaline goes wild in my body. I have to tell the docs and dentists not to give me anything with epi in it to numb me or I'll have a panic attack.
Separate names with a comma.