A Disease W/O a Known Cause?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by johnfasy, Sep 6, 2006.

  1. johnfasy

    johnfasy New Member

    I guess I have a difficult time understanding a "disease" that has no known cause. Without a cause it is what it is...a syndrome identified by a set of symptoms.
    I, and my family have suffered for years with Lyme Complex, an infection that is caused by an array of tick borne infections, i.e., Babesiosis, Lyme Disease, Bartonella, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Ehrlichiosis, Babesia WA1, etc. THe list grows longer every day. Given that the tests for these are very unreliable it is essentially a clinical diagnosis based on a set of symptoms that include chronic fatigue, Neurological damage, neurological pain, muscle wasting, immune dysfunction which leads to opportunistic viral infections like herpes 6 and 8, micoplasma, etc. I have yet to find a person with tertiary lyme complex that did not suffer from the same set of symptoms that CFS and Fibromyalgia sufferers display. My spouse suffers from Neuro pain, muscle weakness, memory loss, horrific headaches, a compromised immune system that has led to opportunistic viral infections like Herpes 6 and 8, micoplasma, ringing in the ears, extreme chronic fatigue, sensitivity to sound,light, and touch, depression, anxiety, recurring fevers and sweats, and on and on. Doesn't this sound an awful lot like CFS?
    She has been treated with anti virals, antibiotics, and anti malarial drugs and had achieved almost complete recovery for two years before relapsing after a hysterectomy four years ago. She is again on the road to recovery after finding that she now has a recently discovered form of Babesia, WA1.
    How does one tell the difference between CFS and Lyme complex? Is there a difference? Maybe we should call CFS Lyme Complex??.
    Could it be that the only difference between the two is the doctor who diagnoses the disease.
    I welcome any and all feedback as to the unique characteristics of CFS and what leads to a definitive diagnosis of it. If you consider my comments naive and ignorant then please enlighten me. Thanks you and God Bless all who suffer with any of these horrible, life destroying diagnoses.
  2. jeduanboneis

    jeduanboneis New Member


    Where oh where have you had these tests done. And who recommended them?

    My primary doctor at this point in my illness is practically clueless.

    So where do I go and what do I ask for?

    Please help. Sorry to sound so desperate but I am running out of options.

    Thanks, Jeanne
  3. hopeful4

    hopeful4 New Member

    Johnfasy,
    I'm with you. I was diagnosed with CFS 6 yrs. ago. Went to lots of doctors, mostly naturopathic. Had some improvements, but they never lasted.

    I couldn't give up. I kept researching, found a doctor who finally diagnosed me with Lyme and much more. So I totally agree with you that perhaps the only difference between Lyme and CFS/FM could be the doctor who does the diagnosing.

    Have you seen the list of Lyme symptoms? You can go through it and check off many that parallel CFS. As you know, Lyme Disease is called the Great Imitator, and many diseases have overlapping symptoms so that other folks are also being mis-diagnosed with such things as ALS, MS, and Alzheimers.

    A definitive diagnosis of CFS is by the CDC guidelines. A definitive diagnosis of Lyme Disease is by clinical diagnosis: history, symptoms, doctor's knowledge, and labs are only corroborative because they are so unreliable.

    By the way, I have about 90% of the symptoms that you've said your wife has. I do hope that her latest discovery of the babesia WA1 will lead her to a new level of recovery.

    Jeanne,
    To find someone who can diagnose Lyme Disease properly, go to lymenet dot org. Click on Flash Discussion, then Medical Questions, then Looking for Doctors. There you can post what area you live in, and someone will respond or private message you with info on Lyme Literate Doctors in you area.

    Another way is to find a support group in your state, that is also at lymenet dot org.

    Best wishes,
    Hopeful4
  4. hopeful4

    hopeful4 New Member

    Lyme symptoms re-posted 01/18/06 10:06 AM

    Just reposted this for your info. Note especially the flu-like symptoms and the neurological symptoms. You do not have to have all of the following to have lyme. My worst symptoms are mostly neurological.

    Lyme Disease



    Below is an article from the Canadian Lyme Disease Foundation:

    Lyme (commonly misspelled as Lime or Lymes) Disease symptoms may show up fast, with a bang, or very slowly and innocuously. There may be initial flu-like symptoms with fever, headache, nausea, jaw pain, light sensitivity, red eyes, muscle ache and stiff neck. Many write this off as a flu and because the nymph stage of the tick is so tiny many do not recall a tick bite.

    The classic rash may only occur or have been seen in as few as 30% of cases (many rashes in body hair and indiscrete areas go undetected). Treatment in this early stage is critical.

    If left untreated or treated insufficiently symptoms may creep into ones life over weeks, months or even years. They wax and wane and may even go into remission only to come out at a later date...even years later.

    With symptoms present, a negative lab result means very little as they are very unreliable. The diagnosis, with today's limitations in the lab, must be clinical.

    Many Lyme patients were firstly diagnosed with other illnesses such as Juvenile Arthritis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Reactive Arthritis, Infectious Arthritis, Osteoarthritis, Fibromyalgia, Raynaud's Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Interstitial Cystis, Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease, Fifth Disease, Multiple Sclerosis, scleroderma, lupus, early ALS, early Alzheimers Disease, crohn's disease, ménières syndrome, reynaud's syndrome, sjogren's syndrome, irritable bowel syndrome, colitis, prostatitis, psychiatric disorders (bipolar, depression, etc.), encephalitis, sleep disorders, thyroid disease and various other illnesses. see -- Other Presentations and Misdiagnoses

    If you have received one of these diagnoses please scroll down and see if you recognize a broader range of symptoms.

    If you are a doctor please re-examine these diagnoses, incorporating Lyme in the differential diagnoses.

    The one common thread with Lyme Disease is the number of systems affected (brain, central nervous system, autonomic nervous system, cardiovascular, digestive, respiratory, musco-skeletal, etc.) and sometimes the hourly/daily/weekly/monthly changing of symptoms.

    No one will have all symptoms but if many are present serious consideration must be given by any physician to Lyme as the possible culprit. Lyme is endemic in Canada period. The infection rate with Lyme in the tick population is exploding in North America and as the earth's temperature warms this trend is expected to continue.

    Symptoms may come and go in varying degrees with fluctuation from one symptom to another. There may be a period of what feels like remission only to be followed by another onset of symptoms.

    PRINT AND CIRCLE ALL YES ANSWERS ( 20 yes represents a serious potential and Lyme should be included in diagnostic workup)

    Symptoms of Lyme Disease

    The Tick Bite (fewer than 50% recall a tick bite or get/see the rash)
    Rash at site of bite
    Rashes on other parts of your body
    Rash basically circular and spreading out (or generalized)
    Raised rash, disappearing and recurring


    Head, Face, Neck

    Unexplained hair loss
    Headache, mild or severe, Seizures
    Pressure in Head, White Matter Lesions in Head (MRI)
    Twitching of facial or other muscles
    Facial paralysis (Bell's Palsy)
    Tingling of nose, (tip of) tongue, cheek or facial flushing
    Stiff or painful neck
    Jaw pain or stiffness
    Dental problems (unexplained)
    Sore throat, clearing throat a lot, phlegm ( flem ), hoarseness, runny nose


    Eyes/Vision

    Double or blurry vision
    Increased floating spots
    Pain in eyes, or swelling around eyes
    Oversensitivity to light
    Flashing lights/Peripheral waves/phantom images in corner of eyes


    Ears/Hearing

    Decreased hearing in one or both ears, plugged ears
    Buzzing in ears
    Pain in ears, oversensitivity to sounds
    Ringing in one or both ears


    Digestive and Excretory Systems

    Diarrhea
    Constipation
    Irritable bladder (trouble starting, stopping) or Interstitial cystitis
    Upset stomach (nausea or pain) or GERD (gastroesophageal reflux disease)


    Musculoskeletal System

    Bone pain, joint pain or swelling, carpal tunnel syndrome
    Stiffness of joints, back, neck, tennis elbow
    Muscle pain or cramps, (Fibromyalgia)


    Respiratory and Circulatory Systems

    Shortness of breath, can't get full/satisfying breath, cough
    Chest pain or rib soreness
    Night sweats or unexplained chills
    Heart palpitations or extra beats
    Endocarditis, Heart blockage


    Neurologic System

    Tremors or unexplained shaking
    Burning or stabbing sensations in the body
    Fatigue, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Weakness, peripheral neuropathy or partial paralysis
    Pressure in the head
    Numbness in body, tingling, pinpricks
    Poor balance, dizziness, difficulty walking
    Increased motion sickness
    Lightheadedness, wooziness


    Psychological well-being

    Mood swings, irritability, bi-polar disorder
    Unusual depression
    Disorientation (getting or feeling lost)
    Feeling as if you are losing your mind
    Over-emotional reactions, crying easily
    Too much sleep, or insomnia
    Difficulty falling or staying asleep
    Narcolepsy, sleep apnea
    Panic attacks, anxiety


    Mental Capability

    Memory loss (short or long term)
    Confusion, difficulty in thinking
    Difficulty with concentration or reading
    Going to the wrong place
    Speech difficulty (slurred or slow)
    Stammering speech
    Forgetting how to perform simple tasks


    Reproduction and Sexuality

    Loss of sex drive
    Sexual dysfunction
    Unexplained menstral pain, irregularity
    Unexplained breast pain, discharge
    Testicular or pelvic pain


    General Well-being

    Unexplained weight gain, loss
    Extreme fatigue
    Swollen glands/lymph nodes
    Unexplained fevers (high or low grade)
    Continual infections (sinus, kidney, eye, etc.)
    Symptoms seem to change, come and go
    Pain migrates (moves) to different body parts
    Early on, experienced a "flu-like" illness, after which you
    have not since felt well.
    Low body temperature

    Allergies/Chemical sensitivities

    Increased affect from alcohol and possible worse hangover





  5. hopeful4

    hopeful4 New Member



    Many of us with CFIDS/FM found out we have Lyme Disease. I will post you some info to consider for yourself:


    Lyme Disease and Its Link to Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and Immune Dysfunction Syndrome and Unrelenting Fatigue
    ImmuneSupport.com

    10-03-2005

    By Kent Holtorf, MD
    (Reprinted with author's permission)

    Lyme disease is caused by a spiral shaped bacteria (spirochete) called Borrelia burgdorferi. These bacteria are most often transmitted by tics and mosquitoes. The spirochetes have been called "the great imitators" because they can mimic virtually any disease, which often leads to misdiagnosis. Patients suffering with a chronic illness and especially those with Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and Immune Dysfunction Syndrome and Unrelenting Fatigue should consider Lyme disease as a contributor.

    Patients with chronic Lyme disease most commonly have fatigue, joint and muscle pain, sleep disorders and cognitive problems, also known as 'brain fog'. In addition, infection with Borrelia often results in a low grade encephalopathy (infection of the brain) that can cause depression, bipolar disorder, panic attacks, numbness, tingling, burning, weakness, or twitching. It can also be associated with neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis, dementia, such as Alzheimer's disease, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease). The infection often results in hormonal deficiencies, abnormal activation of coagulation and immune dysfunction, which can contribute to the cause of the symptoms.

    Patients with chronic Lyme disease often complain of 'strange' or 'weird' symptoms that cannot be explained even after going to numerous doctors and often results in the patient being told that it is psychological. Patients are often told that they are hypochondriacs and are referred to psychiatrists and counselors for treatment.

    Because the symptoms are so variable, most patients are usually not considered for testing or treatment. If testing is done, however, standard tests will miss over 90% of cases of chronic Lyme disease.

    The standard tests include an immunoassay test of IgG and IgM antibodies and a Western blot for confirmation. The problem with these tests is that they are designed to detect acute Lyme disease and are very poor at detecting chronic Lyme disease. In addition, doctors (infectious disease, internists, family practice, etc.) most often use the Center for Disease Control (CDC) criteria to define a positive test. This criterion was never meant to be used for diagnosis, but rather for epidemiological surveillance (tracking data).

    If one uses an expanded Western blot with revised requirement criteria for diagnosis, studies have demonstrated an improved sensitivity of detection of over 90% while having a low false-positive rate of less than 3%.

    There are also a number of co-infections that are commonly transmitted along with the Lyme bacterium, which include Bartonella, Babesia, Ehrlichia and others. There are different species in different parts of the country that can make testing difficult and insensitive. As with Borrelia, there is a very high percentage of false-negative results (test negative despite infection being present).

    Treatment of chronic Lyme disease can be very problematic as the Borrelia bacteria can transform from the standard cell wall form to a non-cell wall form (l-form) and also into a treatment resistant cyst.

    Standard antibiotic treatments are only effective against the cell wall form and are ineffective against the L-forms and cystic forms that are usually present in chronic Lyme disease.

    Consequently, the usual 2-4 weeks of intravenous or oral antibiotics are rarely of any benefit. The use of longer courses of oral or intravenous antibiotics for months or even years is often ineffective as well if used as the sole major therapy.

    A multi-system integrative approach can, however, dramatically increase the likelihood of successful treatment. This includes using a combination of synergistic antibiotics that are effective against the l-forms and cystic forms, immune modulators, directed anti-Lyme nutraceuticals, anticoagulants, hormonal therapies and prescription lysosomotropics (medications that increase the effectiveness and penetration of antibiotics into the various forms of the Borrelia spirochete).

    To adequately detect and treat chronic Lyme disease, Physicians must understand that standard tests will miss the majority of these cases and standard treatment will fail the majority of the time. One must undergo more specialized testing and a multi-system integrative treatment approach to achieve success in the majority of patients.



  6. vintagevix

    vintagevix New Member

    If you check out the research of Dr John Gow of the University of Glasgow, Scotland you will find that he has shown the genetic expression of CFS to be identical to that of lyme Disease / Borreliosis.
    Here in the UK we have 2 doctors that will treat you properly for Lyme Disease.
    Anyone who has been thrown into the wastebin of CFS/ME FMS should get proper testing for Lyme Disease and consult a Lyme Literate MD. The SOONER THE BETTER.
    Cheers Vix
  7. johnfasy

    johnfasy New Member

    Having received a great many responses to my initial post from people who have spent time and energy in palliative treatment for CFIDS/CFS/FM only to go on to get a positive diagnosis for Lyme Disease, I am even more concerned that web sites like this one do a disservice by leading people to concentrate on a diagnosis that is inadequate and just plain wrong. Why do we even honor the title of CFIDS with any name when it is merely a name given to a set of symptoms that are included in other known diseases with known causes like Lyme, Babesia, Ehrlichea, Bartonella, Epstein Barr (I am skeptical of this one as well), etc. I agree with the woman from the UK who emphatically states that anyone with CFIDS absolutely should see a Lyme Literate MD and begin treatment for Lyme immediately. I emphatically implore all CFIDS sufferers and FM sufferers to find a LLMD immediately and get the treatment they need and deserve.
  8. johnfasy

    johnfasy New Member

    Jeanne,
    Your desperation to find a doctor who can do the tests that I spoke of in my post about my wife's Lyme Complex is understood. If you let me know where you live I may be able to help you to find the right doc and ask the right questions and demand the right tests.
  9. johnfasy

    johnfasy New Member

    I understand what you said about the overlapping diagnoses however, one can't have a diagnosis without also having an identified cause of the symptoms. My point is that without a known reason for FM and CFIDS they are merely a description of symptoms, ergo a Syndrome. So the only diagnosis that my wife has gotten are for tick borne infections that are causing fibromyalgia and CFIDS. How many people get a diagnosis of these syndromes and never hear about the tick borne infections that could quite possibly be the cause of his/her symptoms???? That is my concern.
    I know for a fact that many doctors believe that Lyme and other tick borne infections are rare. THat those of us who suffer with it are just psycho and the docs who diagnose it are charlatans. "Diagnoses" like CFIDS and FM are in many cases the only "diagnosis" that an individual will ever receive from the medical community. And that is sad, unfair, dangerous, and makes me want to scream, "I'm Mad as Hell and I'm not going to take it anymore". But Insurance companies prefer these Syndromes to Lyme or Babesia because they don't entail a long course of expensive IV abx. And INsurance companies call the shots in our medical system these days.
    I am curiuos as why I have not seen the words Lyme, Babesia, Ehrlichea, Bartonella, etc. at all on this web site if you all supposedly know that tick borne infections can in fact cause CFIDS and FM? Why does a study that showed that Azithromycin, an anti-bacterial drug, relieved the symptoms of these syndromes yet no one has mentioned the logical conclusion that if an anti bacterial medication relieves symptoms, then it is quite possible that the symptoms are being caused by a bacteria. Duh.
  10. johnfasy

    johnfasy New Member

    Hi Prickles,
    My comments about not seeing anything about Lyme on this site does not refer to the message boards or the posts. It refers to the site itself. As I stated in one of my posts I have received posts from various people who have gone on to receive Lyme diagnoses. My fear is that for every one person who continues to pursue a "real" diagnosis for their symptoms there are 100 who don't, content in their knowledge that they have CFIDS or FM. I am concerned about the information on the site itself. It goes into great detail about the treatments for FM or CFIDS but has not as yet mentioned the possibilty that one might actually have Lyme Complex and should rule out this possibility.
    I personally believe after 17 years of involvement with Lyme Disease and other Tick borne illnesses that there is a conspiracy to hide the true depth and breadth of the Lyme Epidemic in this country. I am concerned that sites like this one are aiding and abetting this conspiracy by allowing people to hang onto their "diagnosis" of CFIDS/FM by not guiding them to the real cause of their symptoms.
    I personally know of many people, through my Lyme Support group who have been told they can't possibly have Lyme but instead have CFIDS or FM. This web site does nothing, as far as I can see, to clear the confusion and point people to a true diagnosis. WHy don't the people who post on this site question the people who run the site and demand that they publish more information about the overlap in symptoms between Lyme and FM/CFIDS?
  11. johnfasy

    johnfasy New Member

    Your Post was insightful and raised many questions in my mind. Let me try to address some.
    WHy don't all people who are bitten by ticks get lyme? Well not all ticks carry the Lyme Spirochete (altho I am sure none of them are virgins). Also there are over 180 strains of Lyme and many strains of babesia. There are also several other tick borne infections which may or may not be contracted in the same bite. I think the severity of the disease is dependent on the Lyme strain, and whether or not the tick passes on multiple diseases. In my wife's case she has Lyme, Babesia microti, bartonella, and babesia wa-1. Her immune system has been compromised from years of sickness and as a result also has micoplasma, herpes 6 and 8, and God only knows what else. It is well documented that multiple infections make the symptoms worse. It is recognized by ILADS that the lyme symptoms are intractable until you eradicate the babesia. I think that there are differences in our immune systems as well as a genetic predisposition that contributes to the severity of the disease. And think about all those people bitten by a tick, who have Lyme and don't ever know it, in spite of the severity of their MS, or ALS, or Alzheimers, or CFIDS, or...well you get the idea.
    My daughters both have lyme disease but have symptoms far less debilitating than Helen. I also have had it and to the best of my knowledge I no longer have it. However, I do have systemic problems with my Pituitary and hormone levels that can easily be attributed to genetics and age. But can I say for certain that I don't have those buggers in my body? No. I just don't have acute symptoms that compel me to take abx. I don't have pain. My girls never had babesia and that could be why their Lyme is easier to control. It's complex, that's for sure.
    DO I think that everyone who has CFIDS, FM, MS, ALS, and all the other "syndromes" actually has active lyme complex? No. But were I to be diagnosed with any of these names applied to symptom sets I would certainly see a Lyme Literate Doc and make sure that I didn't have it. WHile it may not always be Lyme, why couldn't it be caused by another bacteria that acts the same and just hasn't been identified. Doctors are so quick to blame a virus. Why not a bacteria? After all for years stomach ulcers were thought to be caused by stress leading to overproduction of stomach acid . THe doctor who initially discovered the bacteria that causes most stomach ulcers fought for over 20 years to have the medical community listen to him. Why is there such a resistance to new ideas? Because medical franchises and reputations are protected at all costs. Even if it means that people will die or lead a miserable life. We humans are selfish creatures.
    Why is it that the ALS Foundation has been asking people for money to find a cure for this disease for over 20 years and not only don't they have a cure, they still haven't discovered the cause. Now why is that? Well, there are a lot of people who would lose a lot of money if they ever discovered a cure. When was the last time that a drug was put on the market that cured a disease? Drug companies don't want to cure diseases. They would much prefer a drug that controls symptoms and is taken for life. They make more money that way. And Foundations don't want to find a cure because once they do they cease to have a reason to be.
    Wow, I know I sound like a paranoid schizophrenic but those out there who have suffered with Lyme and have seen the outrageous behavior of insurance companies, state medical boards, ivory tower "experts", and the gross ignorance of the medical community in the face of this terrible epidemic will understand my paranoia. I can only pray that every doctor in the Yale School of Rheumatology contracts the worst case of tertiary Lyme in recorded history. And oh yes, I will laugh with glee when their colleagues tell them they have a syndrome with no known cure and no known cause. But you know what? THey will put themselves on IV abx immediately if they ever suspected they had chronic tertiary neuro lyme. Hell I am sure that some of them already have done so.
    Why is it that the infamous Dr. Steere from Yale helped to develop the human lyme vaccine and rushed it to market with SmithKline when he has testified in court against Lyme patients for Insurance companies that Lyme is rare, easy to treat in three to four weeks with oral abx. If he truly believed his own testimony why was there a need for a lyme vaccine to begin with? Within a year of the vaccine's intro to the market it was pulled from the market because of the lawsuits mounting from people who developed chronic arthritis from the vaccine.
    Why is it that veterinarians put dogs on abx for the rest of their lives when they have Lyme, but humans can't even get six weeks of IV, and zithromax is limited by many insurance companies to six pills a month.
    I am curious. You say you are on Zithromax and your symptoms have lessened? Did a Lyme doc prescribe them for Lyme? Or is it a new treatment for CFIDS? As for why you still have symptoms after taking Zithro, if it were simply a matter of taking a months worth of pills to get rid of Lyme then there wouldn't be an issue would there? It would be inexpensive and economically logical to treat it and move on. The problem is that the diseases are very difficult to eradicate. While we are learning more and more about Lyme every day, the lack of research and research dollars has slowed the progress. It took my wife four years of almost constant iv abx to get well the first time. Two years later after surgery and blood transfusion she relapsed with Babesia WA-1 and Lyme. THese bugs have many defense mechanisms. They hide from the immune system, they morph into cell wall deficient organisms, they do not need the blood stream to move about the body, as they are spirochetal bacteria and can bore through cell walls hiding in places in the body where the abx in the blood stream doesn't reach them. All of this is scientific fact. Study after study shows that Lyme and other tick borne diseases can live on in the body long after a course of abx and long after months of IV abx. So with all this scientific data why do medical boards take licenses away from LLMDs for overtreatment with abx? I can hear the "Twilight Zone" music getting louder and louder. Or is it the theme to the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"? Or maybe its the "Exorcist" theme. Any will fit.
    So I guess I get a bit angry when money gets diverted from Lyme Research to research a syndrome like ALS or Alzheimers or CFIDS. For every diagnosis of CFIDS or FM or ALS there is the possibility of one less diagnosis of Lyme. And at some point when we are all debilitated and non productive basket cases from living with a syndrome with no known cause and no cure the only productive animals on earth will be our dogs...oh and the doctors from Yale who know the truth but protect their franchise and secretly sneak their IV Rocephin under their lab coats.
    Sorry for the diatribe, but I couldn't sleep.
  12. sues1

    sues1 New Member

    I am sure you do not know that we on this board, or most of us, need paragraphs.....lots of breaks.......as words run together and very difficult to read. I call this "Fibro eyes".

    Just wanted to also mention that there is a Lyme message board on this site. Go to the upper part of this page and click onto Message Boards....it will take you to a list of various message boards.

    Lyme is also talked about here quite a bit.

    In search box enter Lyme and leave on title (in second box) and click. I have not checked, but I think you will get quite a bit this way of previous postings.

    Blessings...........Susan
  13. johnfasy

    johnfasy New Member

    Go to the ILADS web site and you will find a treatment protocol that is followed by the DOctors who are lyme literate. The International Lyme Disease and Associated Diseases Society is a group formed by Lyme Literate DOctors worldwide to form a united front against the bad guys who say that Lyme is rare, and easy to cure with 3-4 weeks of oral abx. This group of docs has pulled together all of the scientific research that supports the concept of chronic lyme and other tick borne infections. Dr. Burrascano's treatment guidelines can be found there. People come from all over the world to seek his help. His waiting room is definitely international as I have met people from the Netherlands, Israel, Australia, Great Britain, etc. while visiting Doctor B.
    Why are there no Lyme DOcs in the Netherlands? Well one reason is that very few doctors are willing to risk their licenses. It is far easier to treat strep throat and the flu than to take on Lyme Disease. Another reason is that the disease is so underreported due to the ignorance of docs, and the fact that so many cases are reported as something other than Lyme. IN a society with socialized medicine their is an inherent predisposition in the system to diagnose syndromes with palliative treatment than to diagnose Lyme with its expensive and open ended treatment protocol. "Treat until all symptoms are gone and then treat some more" is a hard pill to swallow for socialized medicine and for insurance companies in the US.
    As for the azithromycin experience you had, I am not surprised that this abx improved your symptoms. And I am not surprised they returned. As for other benefits of Zithro, well, it is an abx first and foremost. It kills bacteria and has been shown to be effective against parasites as well, especially when used in conjunction with an anti parasitic drug like Mepron. Don't you think that is compelling enough to warrant further treatment with abx.
    If you were to go to a LLMD and present him with symptoms of CFIDS or FM he would almost certainly clinically diagnose Lyme. He would have to. FM and CFIDS are major components of Lyme symptoms.
  14. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Does anyone here know what causes Alzheimer's Disease?

    Just an example.

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