A message for Klutzo...

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Plantscaper, Apr 18, 2003.

  1. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    Noticed that you indicated you have naturopathic training..
    Wondered if you know of good source for herbal/prescription drug potential bad interactions..

    Also, what are the best sources for finding out more about herbal remedies?

    Specifically, do you know if it is OK to mix Olive Leaf Extract with the following drugs: Coumadin, Imuran, Prednisone, Embrel, Timolol, Fosamax or other calcium agents..(for my mom) Think I need to find ways to work on her immune system, since she is on immunosuppressant drugs and has potential mycoplasmal infections triggering her RHUEMATOID ARTHRITIS/VASCULITIS..If you have any other suggestions, would be open..

    It was very interesting to note that you recommend Calcium Citrate..I had been taking that one for a long time, but got persuaded by all the talk about Coral Calcium..Do you think the citrate form is better than the latter? The citrate is a lot less expensive and I paid mucho dollars for the coral..

    I have read many of your warnings on the Pregnenolone..discussed this with my doc, but she really did not know that much about it..Do you still think it is safe to take about l0mg/every 3 days?

    Thanks for your advice/suggestions...
    HAVE A GREAT EASTER,
    ~~Amelia~~



    [This Message was Edited on 04/18/2003]
  2. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I'm glad I checked in here quick before sacking out for the night. I hope I can answer at least some of your questions.
    My favorite book for all things nutritional or herbal is "Prescription for Nutritional Healing" by James F. Balch, M.D. and Phyllis A. Balch, C.N.C. I have a shelf and a half of my required textbooks, but I always find myself consulting that one.
    As far as drugs interacting with herbs, the book on that needs to be written, and the research will have to come first. Research on this topic is just getting underway, and we are really playing roulette for now, which is why I specialized in nutritional medicine. I feel it is safer, and I also feel that herbs are just medicines that are unregulated. However, I think the best info on them available right now is probably the Monographs of The German Commission E. These can be purchased on the Internet, but they are very pricey. The best book for drug with drug interactions is "The People's Guide to Deadly Drug Interactions" by Joel Graedon and Teresa Graedon, PhD. If you see a good book on the interactions between drugs and herbs, please let me know! Meanwhile, I'd suggest doing a websearch on any combination you want to know about, and reading the opinons you find to make the most informed choice you can....I know, this is a lot of work! You might try the supplementwatch website...they have some good info there.
    As far as olive leaf is concerned, I know of no interactions with drugs that have been identified so far. I took maximum doses of olive leaf for over 2 months once with zero side-effects, while taking several drugs. Of the drugs you list, the one that has most often been associated with herbal interactions is Coumadin, which interacts with vitamin E, Ginkgo biloba, and chondroitin, and probably several others that are slipping my mind . I know nothing about Embrel or Timolol, so can't comment on those.
    I think Calcium Citrate is wonderful. I am a tree hugger, so I have some ethical problems with the harvesting of coral calcium. Philosophically, I don't think God made it that difficult to get proper nutrition. I think all the things we land animals need are right here on land. That is just my opinion.
    Very little research has been done on the long-term safety of Pregnenolone, but the one doctor who has done the most (whose name escapes me at the moment...Fibro fog...all I know is it begins with "S")says he feels that long-term, no more than 3 mgs. daily should be taken. Since the lowest over-the-counter dose availabe is 10 mgs., that would be one 10 mg. capsule every 3 or 4 days. The reason I am taking this risk is because I feel so much better on it. Since menopause I have had dramatic and unwelcome changes to my personality, and the pregnenolone modifies those somewhat, so I am not as afraid of blowing up at people. If I did not feel I really need it, I'd not fool with hormones.
    You have piqued my curiosity.If I can stay awake, I'll do some research on olive leaf and if I find any interactions, I'll come back here and post. I'm betting there has been very little research done on it, period. Like all herbs, it is unpatentable, so there is no profit in it, meaning research will have to be done by the government , or not at all.
    Hope this helps a bit,
    Klutzo

    I'm baaaaack! Just did a check of current literature, and as usual, found contradictions. 99% say olive leaf has no reported drug interactions. But, I did find one source saying it has the POTENTIAL to interact with blood pressure meds, anti-diabetics, and blood thinners like Coumadin and aspirin. You may want to still try it, but make sure she is getting regular ProTime tests done. If it is causing a problem with her Coumadin, it should show up quickly on the ProTime test and then you would know to make changes accordingly.
    [This Message was Edited on 04/18/2003]
  3. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    For all the information...When my mind is much better, I will explore all the options you gave me...Worked hard today and brain is drained....

    By the way, Klutzo, I am in perimenopause, and going thru "wacko" periods, so I expect to not be so happy with my "emotional status"...trying to do without any HRT, and hoping that the pregnenolone will provide, whatever is needed..If you have any other suggestions for the great "perimenopause-menopause-post menopause" ride I am in for, any help would be greatly appreciated...

    I don't know if you have seen my numerous posts on OLE, but iguess, you can say, that it has totally won me over..never, have I found such an effective medication, whether herbal or prescription...Have you seen my questions on Nattokinase? I have been trying to find out if it could be an effective fibrinolytic agent, that may be a lot safer than Heparin...to work on the hypercoagulation defect..

    I knew you seemed to know a lot about alternative medicine, but did not know of your naturopathic training till today..
    Hope we can talk, frequently...


    Thanks so much...

    Still hoping you have a great Easter,
    ~~Amelia~~[This Message was Edited on 04/18/2003]
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    [This Message was Edited on 04/18/2003]