Addiction sciences people. Can you help with info?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Jen F, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. Jen F

    Jen F New Member

    I am dependent on Restoril and am coming off.

    I started to taper too quickly, didn't realize how addicted my body is, been having uncomfortable withdrawal, so upped the dose a little and now it's finally starting to be a little less uncomfortable...but...

    Do any of you have experience with this, if not personally, then with patients, clients?

    One doctor's recommendation [on the web] is to use diazepam concurrently for a short while and then wean off the DIAZEPAM [maybe easier to more exactly reduce dose of diazepam than Restoril capsules?]. My GP is willing to follow this protocol if I print out the info and the doctor's qualifications, but i'd rather have the guidance of a doctor who has actually done this before, or hear of the same protocol used from another source before embarking on that route.

    I really could use some help in this, if you have the energy to respond, I thank you.

    jen F.
  2. suz41

    suz41 New Member

    Jen:

    I posted a message to you on accessing help from facilities inyour area to come of meds Take a look I did not leave a website address due to the board rules, however the government info is legitiamate and does help people locate service providers in there area. I am not a physician , I deal with addictions issues and yes it probably would be easuier to wean off diazepam, however have you considered using a counselor in additon to your doctor to wean off. Read my post.

    Suz
  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I keep you in my prayers as you wean off you med.

    Just one clarification. You are not addicted to your med. You are physically dependent on it and that is why you must wean off. The difference is more than just semantics. It's really important that people don't shy away from meds which can help them because they fear addiction. Physically dependence is completely different than psychological addiction.

    Again, good luck to you.

    Love, Mikie
  4. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I see this is your third post requesting help for this. Did you try the protocol I outlined for you in your first post? Is it not working? Did you not understand it? Is there anything about it I can clarify for you?
    It is such a slow withdrawl rate, I think if you follow it you will do fine. It always worked for me, and I have a strong tendency for dependency.
    Remember, you will have to put up with some discomfort, there is simply no way around that when withdrawing from benzos.
    Hugs,
    Klutzo
  5. zggygirl

    zggygirl New Member

    Hi Jen,
    I keep seeing your posts and your concerns. I don't have much to offer, I hope Klutzo's regime will help. But if it was me I would call my psychiatrist and ask him to help.
    Now I know you don't have one. But I found mine through a Pastoral counseling center. So for one the cost was right- sliding scale, two- they had therapists if you want it-and the most important thing- a pscychiatrist who is THE BEST. They know these medications like the back of their hands. That's what they are trained it. They aren't therapists.
    My doc. even commented on how his patients either are afraid to take something (anxiety disorder) or can't stop taking something.
    If you called a place like the one I'm talking about (hopefully there is one there), they would help you in a heartbeat.
    If you are dealing with withdrawel your brain just doesn't need to be dealing with finding the darn help right now also. That's just too much on your plate....sigh...but I know that is the reality of it. I'm just saying I feel for you, try to be extra kind to yourself right now.
    Ziggy
  6. Jen F

    Jen F New Member


    Thanks for your response.

    What does "against Restoril" mean? You wrote: "I sold Valium and against Restoril (with a sleeper called "Dalmane") when I worked for Roche Labs."

    YOur description of an alcoholic being given Scotch rather than Gin is what concerns me about taking a different benzo. My doctor over the phone suggested I take the Rivatril I have [a small amount of klonopin for muscle spasms] to help me with the REstoril withdrawal. But, I wasn't comfortable with that. Seemed like the above analogy to me. Had I been told that by an expert in benzo weaning, I might have more seriously considered it.


    "First, why do you want to go off Restoril?? Do you have insomnia?"


    I was frightened by the CNS depressent additive effect I had when taking percoset. I may need to take a pain killer in the future, but obviously cannot take more than a very mild dose of opiod if on the REstoril.

    A friend of mine thinks I am having rebound effects from the benzo and that if I come off it, I will realize I am actually doing a little better but that the Restoril is masking it. I AM on the max dose and it is starting to lose its efficacy, so I knew some day this time would come. Yes, I usually have insomnia, and have considered taking the drug as the lesser of two evils. But, lately, I feel that the insomnia might not be too bad. I would like to try weaning off and see what happens.

    "Restoril and other benzos are very safe."

    What do you mean by that. From my recent reading, there are MANY concerns to long term use, which is another reason I want off.

    "2.)What makes you think you are addicted (that is uncommon w/ benzos)? "

    REbecca, are you on drugs??? Yes, you are. LOL. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but, your statement above floors me. Addiction/dependence whatever word people think is more apt is NOT uncommon with long term use of benzos. In fact it is VERY common. It can be a huge problem for people as I am finding out. I know my grandmother was addicted to lorazepam the last few [several?] years of her life.

    I really appreciate your response and interest in helping, thank you, and I don't wish to appear ungrateful, but your statement above that addiction is uncommon with benzos is totally false. Or maybe you mean addiction vs. dependence?

    I was told people are admitted on a regular basis to the Donwood addiction and detox centre for coming off benzos.

    "4,) How long have you been on it, and at whay dose? "

    over 2 years at maximum dose of 30 mg, 4 years dependent on it for sleeping, 6 years taking it on and off.

    "Hope this is the beginning of some assistance for you.

    Rebecca "

    Thanks, REbecca, for your time and for caring.

    Sincerely,

    Jen F
  7. Jen F

    Jen F New Member

    I really appreciate your post with your suggested protocol. It helps me to compile information and give me some guidance. However, you don't have personal experience with Restoril nor with using diazepam with the weaning off REstoril and so I am still interested in experienced opinions on this.

    Your suggested weaning schedule is actually a bit too fast for my body it seems.

    You did make it very clear and understandable, thank you. And I am keeping the info on file.

    I can tolerate some level of discomfort, but not what I was going through. I say was, because I seemed to have turned a corner and the withdrawal is a bit milder. [ i upped my dose when I realized I was tapering WAY too fast]

    Dr. Ashton's protocol is a much slower tapering than what you recommend, so I am keeping both your and her schedules in mind and still looking for more opinions, esp anyone who has actually weaned off REstoril, in particular, after being on it long term. And most especially professional opinions on the diazepam thing.

    So, rest assured, I did see your post and I do find the info helpful. Thank you.

    Thanks for your thoughts and your support.

    Sincerely,

    Jen
  8. Jen F

    Jen F New Member

    I understand now what you mean by safe.

    I thought you were discounting the highly addictive nature of benzodiazepines if taken long term.

    It is interesting to know that people can't really o.d. on them! And that they aren't harmful to the liver like other drugs, if i understand you correctly.

    Thanks for your time and input.

    Aaaaahhhhh....some blessed relief...the copious amount of tiger balm I put on my neck and arm are helping me with my muscular pain. I haven't taken any medical pain killers since Sunday, and then it was only Tylenol...but the pain, fortunately not severe the last few days, is wearing me down nonetheless...

    Hope you are having a decent eve.

    Jen F
    [This Message was Edited on 07/18/2003]
  9. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    It is a cop out for someone to say that benzos are addictive. People can become addicted to anything if they have an addictive personality and this includes benzos. It also includes shopping, drinking, smoking, and sex. Benzos are not addictive, but one can become physically dependent on them and in some cases, yes, addicted to them. This does not mean they are of an addictive nature.

    Anything can be abused but when a substance is abused, it isn't because the substance is addictive but rather because the abuser is abusing the substance. Granted, there are some substances which seem to be more easily abused by someone who is an abuser, but benzos typically do not fall into this category. Most people take the same dose of Klonopin of years. I'm not saying that benzos haven't been abused, but that's because of the abusers, not the benzos.

    I was given a prescription for Morphine which could be taken with the Klonopin as long as I took them as directed. I had no problem with this. Now, I do not need the Morphine and I am considering trying to slightly decrease my nighttime dose of the Klonopin. As we get older, we need smaller doses of benzos to accomplish the same benefits.

    When you say, "dependence or addiction, whatever you decide to call it," it implies that it's just a matter of semantics. It most definitely is not. Physical dependence is totally different from psychological addiction and the two should not be confused.

    Love, Mikie
  10. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Old beliefs are hard to change. The Reefer Madness mentality of our govt. has scared the masses when it comes to medications and this includes many docs.

    Madwolf has done his best to try to educate here regarding the difference between physical dependence and psychological addiction. It has been one of my pet projects as well because I was one of those who needed opiods for pain but was afraid of them. After learning that less than one percent of those with chronic pain become addicted to opiods, I became open to taking Morphine which probably saved my sanity and certainly save me from a life of pain.

    When the Guai, physical therapy, and probably the Klonopin, made the Morphine no longer necessary, I was happy to give it up. It was the Morphine, though, which made it possible for me to seek other ways of dealing with the pain. It was a God send.

    I would hate to think someone would be deprived of getting help because he or she does not understand the difference between dependence and addiction.

    Most people who are psychologically addicted are taking other substances in addition to the opiod and/or benzo. An addict will do whatever it takes to achieve the high.

    Thank you to everyone who strives to help educate people on these matters. It is important.

    Love, Mikie
  11. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    i have been reading the posts above on tamezpam as i am interested in reducing the amount i take.

    i found the info you gave helpful and interesting.

    i started taking tamezpam in 1992 because i did NOT sleep, was going to go insane and did not want to go on actual sleeping pills. I found that on 10mgs i could sleep for 4 hours which was wondrful then.
    in time i needed more until i was taking 40mgs, which i took for about 7 years. last autumn i reduced by 2 and a half mgs .so i take 35mgs every night. i would like to be taking less as i am concerned for the longterm effects on my brain and liver.
    can you advise me what you know about this....i have been on them for 11years ?
    I have stayed taking them because i need to sleep and we have less choice of meds in the UK.

    do you think i could reduce further and still be taking enough to do what ever it is the stuff does ?
    It doesnt actually put me to sleep, more makes me drowsy.
    i also take melatonin and magnesium and these help me to sleep.
    I am in the UK, and have only recently discovered the melatonin [about 1 year].

    hope you reply and thanks in advance,
    pinkquartz
  12. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The goal was always to eventually get off the Morphine, but this isn't possible until one can achieve a certain level of pain relief. Being in unbearable pain makes it impossible to find other methods of pain relief which may take some time. For example, one cannot do the physical therapy when the pain is so great that even moving is impossible.

    Also, the Guai treatment, which I believe has been the best relief from pain for me, takes a long time to be effective. It probably took a full year before the Guai produced pain-free days most of the time. Of course, it had benefits almost immediately, but in the beginning, I was still having very painful flares in between the remissions.

    The Klonopin appears to help with pain by interferring with pain messages in the brain. Again, the longer one takes it, the better it seems to work. I didn't even know about this benefit of Klonopin when I started taking it. I took it for anxiety and to get some sleep. I found it also to be very effective in controlling sensory overload.

    I know that not everyone can chuck their pain meds like I have. We are all different. I do believe, however, that that should be the goal.

    I have also been very fortunate to have therapy available to me when I have needed it. I have used it as a tool for depression, anxiety, grief therapy, and to help me remember how it feels to be a healthy person again.

    Love, Mikie
  13. Jen F

    Jen F New Member

    Period.

    Perhaps we should agree to disagree, Mikie?

    If you prefer to use the phrase that the body becomes dependent on them if used for long term, then so be it.

    When I use the term "benzo's are highly addictive" I am not meaning a psychological dependence or a recreational use. It is the phrase used to describe them if you do an internet search on them and by addiction, in this case, I am meaning that the physical body becomes dependent on them.

    I cannot speak for the use of Klonopin and how concerned you or other members of this board should be by taking it. I realize many of you find it helpful. It may be more important for you and others to take it for it's benefits than to worry about physical dependence on it.

    REstoril helps me with sleeping very much, or at least it used to. It is losing some of it's efficacy in recent times. But, if I had known how serious withdrawal can be I might have tried harder to find an alternative. I might not have been successful...and I DID try several other natural things, but I would have tried a couple more things than I did. And for me, having a bad drug interaction with a mild opiod is an additional concern, one you obviously don't have to deal with -- not everybody will have the problem I did taking the 2 drugs concurrently. But, beware, Mikie...if you ever want or need to come off the Klonopin at any time, I hope what is happening to me with the Restoril never happens to you and I strongly suggest for anyone who decides they want to come off their benzo, if they have been taking it long term, to do so VERY VERY SLOWLY and thereby possibly avoid the terrible discomfort I am experiencing.

    Check out the following excerpts, esp the part about long term changes to GABA and nervous system from long term benzo use.

    [but, again, please note I am NOT criticizing your or anyone's use of Klonopin. This is just a warning of the possible consequences that I think should be seriously considered but are not generally mentioned when deciding to use a benzo.]

    "July 30, 2001
    Honourable Allan Rock
    Minister of Health
    Brooke Claxton Bldg., Tunney's Pasture
    P.L. 0913C
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    K1A 0K9
    Dear Mr. Rock:
    We are writing to express serious concerns about prescribing protocols and patient impacts related to the benzodiazepine class of drugs and benzodiazepine-like drugs (i.e., Zopiclone and Zolpidem).
    As you are no doubt aware all benzodiazepines are highly addictive …"

    "…1. Many doctors are poorly informed about the addictive qualities of benzodiazepines and make invalid assumptions about their patients' physical or mental health while they are experiencing tolerance withdrawal or withdrawal symptoms. Because benzodiazepines profoundly affect the neurotransmitters, weeks or months are required after the drug is withdrawn before neurological and other GABA related functions are stabilized. Many physicians misinterpret this stage of recovery as requiring further medical or drug interventions. These further undermine the health of patients.
    Physicians frequently do not provide patients with either correct information or reassurance about withdrawal effects. Pharmaceutical companies also should be required to fully disclose the risks associated with benzodiazepines usage and the symptoms of withdrawal through detailed and accurate drug insert information.
    1. There is a need to establish a user-friendly drug reaction/interaction reporting system so that patients and physicians can easily report drug effects and interactions.
    Systematic information is not currently available on the proportion of benzodiazepines users who suffer drug-related effects or the period at which drug effects commence. Because the onset of addiction is variable and highly individual specific estimates range from 4 weeks to 3 months or even one year for addiction to occur. A drug reporting system would provide some definitive information on this issue and would help identify the overall scope of the problem.
    2. There is a need to establish an appropriate information and support system for those who wish to withdraw or who are withdrawing from benzodiazepines.
    There are no specific services or direct support for those who have become addicted to benzodiazepines. Since complete withdrawal (acute and recovery stages) from benzodiazepines can take many weeks or months, traditional in-patient drug treatment is not appropriate or cost-effective. In addition, the vast majority of benzodiazepine users do not have addictive personalities or backgrounds. They were simply prescribed a drug by their doctors which they took in good faith, not realizing its effects. For this reason, traditional treatment programs are not appropriate. What is required is the establishment of a national agency that could provide:
    o Information on benzodiazepines and their effects;
    o Information on the symptoms of tolerance withdrawal and withdrawal;
    o Telephone and direct support and reassurance. Most patient support could be provided by telephone through access to a 1-800 telephone line;
    o Physician support and education.
    We believe that benzodiazepine use has had enormous cost impacts on the health care system. For example, in B.C. in the year 2000, the leading class of prescribed drugs was psychotherapeutics (13.2% of all prescriptions). Fifty percent of these prescriptions were for Lorazepam, a benzodiazepine, which because of its short half life, is highly addictive.
    There is no question that there are significant numbers of Canadians, particularly women, who are seriously affected by benzodiazepine use. Withdrawal from benzodiazepines, even from short-term use, can be a harrowing experience involving severe physical and psychiatric manifestations. Because most patients lack support and information they may never be able to withdraw and therefore suffer chronic ill health and mental health problems for the rest of their lives.
    We strongly encourage the adoption of these recommendations in the context of the current review of legislation governing health protection.
    Yours sincerely,
    Sue McGowan
    On behalf of The Women's Addiction Foundation
    and Janet Currie, Benzodiazepine Awareness Network
    Nancy Poole, Wavelength Consulting
    Gail Malmo, Aurora Centre, BC Women's Hospital"

  14. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    hi , thanks for your reply.

    for years i have fought off doctors wanting to take away the tamezpam by arguing that it must have something in it that i need ! so strange to see you have written that thought.

    my current doctor understands that i have worse problems than my dependance on tamezpam.

    i take it in syrup not tablets. which makes measuring the dose easier.

    i started to need tamezpam when the DD reached a terrible severity for me in 1991.
    Now i do really want to cut it down to a lower level. Do you agree that 35 mgs is over the max. dose ?
    do you believe that we after a while it takes more of the tamezpam to create the same effect ?
    It was, i believe, severe adrenal stress that has created my need for this drug. i was tired and wired.
    the more tired i got the less chance of sleep.
    and the tamezpam switched off the wiredness, although it doesn't work if i am totally stressed, but i have learned how to use it.
    it won't put me to sleep if i am not ready, and yet i cant sleep without it.
    BTW the UK govt banned he caps years ago cos of the abuse of by junkies in scotland, hence they are not available. i didnt get on with the tabs, so i take the syrup.

    i use valium only very ocasionally as it leaves me feeling depressed. i don't really like it.
    and as far as i know we don't seem to have klonopin here..don't know why. shame as i know Mickie swears by it.
    cheers,
    pinkquartz


    [This Message was Edited on 07/19/2003]
  15. Jen F

    Jen F New Member

    Racwhite - thanks, I WILL try to find a number to contact the Restoril company...that's a great idea, thank you. I am having such an awful time even tho for the last few days have only been emptying a small amount of a 30mg capsule out.

    pinkquartz- klonopin is called rivatril here. aka clonazepam.

    Ciao!

    Jen F.
  16. Jen F

    Jen F New Member

    It's always nice to have someone else represent our personal point of view...isn't it Mikie and Rebecca?? :)

    Thanks for sharing, Packie!

    [no racial slur intended...some of my favourite people are from Pakistan. :)] I really appreciate it. goin' thru he__ myself...

    how long were you on and and how long did you go through a rough time coming off?

    J.

    hey, see that purple polar bear in the Argentine zoo? being treated for a skin problem with a purple compound :)
  17. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    And, we were unable to come to an agreement because people were on different pages completely due to misunderstanding the difference between physical dependence and psychological addiction. Even many docs do not understand the difference and so they continue to pass on misinformation.

    A person who is suffering the symptoms of withdrawal from physical dependence will swear that the substance is addictive, but withdrawal symptoms do not equal addiction. They equal physical dependence. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter whether you are physcially dependent or addicted, the withdrawal can be hard. This should be done under a doc's care.

    Let me ask you this. Would you constantly strive for a high on this drug? Have you constantly increased you dose to get high from this drug? If you could not get this drug legally, would you consider stealing from your family to get your hands on it? Would you forge a prescription to try to get more? These are the symptoms of psychological addiction and drug-seeking behavior.

    Typically, benzos do not cause people to behave this way and if the patient is behaving this way, it is because he or she is an addict, not because benzos are "addictive."

    If you are absolutely convinced due to personal experience that benzos are addictive, no evidence is going to convince you otherwise, so all we can do is agree to disagree, and that is OK. Even the docs cannot seem to agree on this. Dr. Cheney has an article on Klonopin in which he dispells the myth that Klonopin is addictive.

    I am physically dependent on water, air, insulin, thyroid hormone, and a lot of other substances. What my body can't manufacture, I must supply for it. That's physical dependence. If I do not supply what my body can't make in sufficiet quantities, I will die or get very sick. Fortunately for me, what I need is legally available. I have no desire to abuse any of these substances, including the Klonopin. Why in the world would I want to risk adding addiction to my already full plate of problems?

    My concern is that people will pass on treatments which might be helpful because they fear addiction. That's why it is so important for people to be able to distinguish between the two. No one should take any medication lightly because every drug has some risk, even if it is very small. Physical dependence is no small thing, but for many of us, the benefits of our treatments outweigh the risk.

    Love, Mikie



  18. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    I'm sorry, but I agree with Jen. And so do most doctors. Dr. Cheney is in the minority opinion regarding these ridiculous semantics over "dependance" vs. "addiction". As far as I'm concerned, dependance is just a "softer" way of saying "addiction". It's not the black and white issue that some insist it is, perhaps out of denial?

    There is no "misunderstanding", and with all due respect, to suggest so is very condescending. There is disagreement, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

    What really is the difference betweeen so-called physical dependance and psychological addiction? Let's say your muscles start twitching (physical), then it gets worse, because you don't take your klonopin. Then what happens -- you get anxious, worried (psychological) and you end up feeling you need to take the drug again, to stop BOTH the physical and psychological symptoms. They overlap, they are INTERCONNECTED, just like the brain is connected to the body. I really don't mean to be rude, but sheeesh.

    Milkie asked: Would you forge a prescription to try to get more?

    No, but you might call your doctor for another refill even though you would rather not take it. You might feel the need to drive to the ER if you are denied the refill, and can't settle down. SAME DIFFERENCE. If you just can't stand to use the word "addictive", let's try the more user-friendly "habit forming" or even more friendly, "dependance", or even "tolerance". Sure, for some people they are less addictive or habit forming than they are for others, but that doesn't make the patient an addict -- it is the DRUG, and the withdrawal from that drug that causes the dependency. That is just common sense.

    It is a fact that tolerance to benzos develops after long-term use. That is why most HMO's will not give refills on the drugs. According to Ashton, many patients find that anxiety symptoms gradually increase over the years, and panic attacks and agoraphobia may appear for the first time after years of chronic use.

    I am currently trying to taper off 1mg of klonopin, and am working with my doctor to switch to the valium taper as recommended by the premiere authority on benzos, Professor Heather Ashton. It is very difficult.

    What really bothered me though, was when Milkie said: "Typically, benzos do not cause people to behave this way and if the patient is behaving this way, it is because he or she is an addict, not because benzos are "addictive."

    Well, then Jen, I guess you're an addict, at least according to Milkie. And so am I, and millions of others, which I think is unfair, and insulting.

    But I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, because we just can't seem to understand the concept. It's all just a misunderstanding...

    Dan
  19. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Please do not put words in my mouth. I have not called anyone here an addict. It is twisting people's words like this which leads to arguements and makes it impossible for us to discuss these topics rationally.

    I am not afraid of the the word, addict. I am fully aware that addiction exists. There are some drugs which appeal more to abusers. Oxycontin is one of these drugs. What abusers do is take the capsules apart and sniff the contents. These are the kinds of things which drug addicts do and has nothing to do with taking the drugs responsibly to relieve symptoms. Does this make oxycontin more addictive? No. It just means it appeals to a certain group of drug addicts and abusers who choose to abuse it. Unfortunately, many who might get pain relief by using oxycontin responsbily will not because they fear addiction.

    There are many who have been on the same dose of Klonopin for years and take it every night. This is not true for everyone and, yes, physical dependence is a serious consideration, as I have alrady stated. Anyone taking a new drug should be well aware of the risks before choosing to take the drug.

    Also, as I have already stated, going off drugs can be hell regardless of whether one is physically dependent or psychologically addicted. If anyone chooses to believe that addiction and physical dependence are one and the same, he or she will continue to believe it. As I said, we will have to agree to disagree on this issue, but it is not splitting hairs and it is more than just semantics. Here is what Cheney has to say on the issue:

    MYTH NUMBER TWO: Klonopin IS ADDICTIVE.

    Dr. Cheney was adamant that Klonopin is not addictive. In treating thousands of patients, he has never seen a patient become addicted to Klonopin. He reviewed the definition of addiction, stating that it involves: (1) psychosocial disruption, (2) accelerated use, (3) inappropriate use, and (4) drug seeking behavior.

    Dr. Cheney said a case might be made that Klonopin is habituating. It’s true that it can’t be stopped suddenly. You must taper off of it gradually. However, he was cautious about even calling it habituating. The process of tapering off a drug is not the same thing as withdrawal, a term that implies addiction.

    Dr. Cheney said to keep in mind that Klonopin is given for a physiological problem – excitatory neurotoxicity. It’s prescribed to adjust the threshold potential: to keep neurons from firing inappropriately and being destroyed. He stressed that Klonopin should never be given unless you intend to raise the threshold potential. He stated, "Problems arise when you begin to use benzodiazapines for reasons other than threshold manipulation." However, CFIDS patients have a "threshold potential aberration" and need Klonopin (or something similar) to avoid brain injury. Dr. Cheney has never seen a recovered patient have difficulty coming off Klonopin. He stated, "When you no longer need the drug, coming off it is very easy."

    On the other hand, trouble arises when someone who still has an injured brain tries to come off Klonopin. It’s like a thyroid patient stopping their thyroid medication. Dr. Cheney warned, "All hell breaks loose". However, it’s not because the drug is addicting, and it’s not withdrawal. The condition still exists, and the body lets you know it has a legitimate physical need for the drug. Cheney stated, "When a CFIDS patient who is still experiencing the underlying mechanisms of brain injury goes off Klonopin, there is a burst of excess neural firing and cell death. That’s the havoc we hear about that is mistakenly called withdrawal."

    Love, Mikie
  20. pinkquartz

    pinkquartz New Member

    thanks racwhite for replying.

    i do feel reassured that i am on a safe dose now.

    i would like to reduce the dose at some point and see how that feels but its not a priority.

    cheers, pinkquartz