Adrenal Stress Index Test Results In

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by klutzo, Jun 3, 2003.

  1. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I promised I'd post this. Madwolf, I hope you see this. My last ASI test was in 1999, and the director of the lab called my Naturopath long distance to tell her I was so cortisol deficient that I was in danger of dying if I did not get immediate treatment. I went to a conventinal Endocrionolgist for a second opinion, and she told me it was bunk, since the 8 am fasting blood cortisol was 18,so I did nothing.
    Now is is 2003, and my symptoms of cortisol deficiency are worse than they were in 1999, but my ASI came back normal across the board! All 4 timed tests are in normal range. The DHEA was borderline low though, which also amazed me, since I just had serum DHEA done 2 months ago, and it was way too high!
    Makes you wonder how much lab tests of any sort are worth, whether conventional or otherwise.
    It looks like I will not be put on any Cortef.
    Klutzo
  2. Shirl

    Shirl New Member

    Shalom, Shirl
  3. mystijul

    mystijul New Member

    I forget if you've had the Great Smokies Laboratories test. It is a 24 hr saliva test that tests the levels of DHEA & Cortisol 4 times over the course of a day.

    Also, I haven't started Cortef yet, but I am on ADHS, an adrenal supplement made by Biotics Reasearch.
    ~Julie
  4. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    That is exactly the test I had, except it was done by a lab in Washington State, not Great Smokies.
    The test procedure was slightly different this time. Last time I just had to spit into a vial until I filled it at 4 different times of day.
    This time I had to flush my mouth with ice water for 5 minutes and then insert a cotton roll under my tongue and move it around until it was saturated,then put the cotton into the vial. It seems they have refined the test in the last 4 yrs.
    Klutzo
  5. Jasmine

    Jasmine New Member

    You just reminded me it's time for my annual ASI Test! I get it done by the lab in Washington State also. I have to stop taking my 7-keto DHEA for 3 days before I can take the saliva test though.
  6. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    There is a huge difference. The 8 am serum fasting cortisol is just one reading, and is designed by conventional medicine, in accordance with the belief that your adrenals are either 100% healthy, or you have Addison's Disease (complete adrenal failure). It is not quite as sensitive therefore as the ASI. Very few conventional docs will have heard of the ASI, and if they have, they will tell you it is bunk (translated = "I don't know anything about this, but rather than admit it, I'll act smug and dismiss it").
    The ASI test is a kit, and you do the test at home. It's usage is based on the idea that you can have levels of adrenal insufficiency inbetween total health and total adrenal failure, and they can cause symptoms. At four very specific times of day, you rinse your mouth for 5 mins. with ice water, then you put a cotton plug from the kit under your tongue and roll it around until it is saturated with saliva. Then it goes in a vial, and into the refrig. When all four tests are done (one each at 8 am, noon, 4 pm and midnight), you put them all in the fridge, and the next day you take them out, put them in the special mailer box, go to the post office, and send them to the lab by next day air.
    Any holistic doc or Naturopath can read the results for you,and I think you can get the test kits at some compounding pharmacies. I got mine from my holistic M.D.
    Klutzo

    P.S. Just to show the difference in the sensitivity of the tests, in 1999, my blood test for 8 am cortisol was normal, but my ASI showed 3rd stage adrenal failure. Alternative docs believe there are 7 stages to adrenal failure, and that stage 1 represents what most of us call ordinary "burn out". Stages 2 and 3, also known as the resistance stages, would be diagnosed as Fibromyalgia. Stages 4, 5 & 6 as worsening levels of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and Stage 7 is Addison's Disease. Maybe if you show this to your doc he'd be willing to let you do the test. The results come in the form of a graph, comparing your numbers with normal ranges, so it is easy to interpret,even if s/he is not familiar with the concept.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/04/2003]
  7. Joyce1

    Joyce1 New Member

    I took Great smokies and sabre science. both very low 8am. Great smokies very high at midnight. I tried glandular stuff but they stress me out.

    won't using a cortef or hydrocortisone just supreess things further>?

    thanks

    jbk
  8. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    If your 8 am cortisol was low on the ASI, then Ithink you are exactly the right type of person to take a small 8 am Cortef supplement to bring you up to normal. I think that may also help get you back on a normal day/night schedule, which would ultimately lower your high midnight reading. What you have now is the typical Fibro pattern, of daytime readings at night, and vice versa.
    The glandulars probably stressed you out because they raise both cortisol and adrenalin, which is why I won't take them. I make too much adrenalin already.
    You might want to make a seperate post on this and direct it to Madwolf, to either confirm or correct what I said. He uses this protocol in his practice and knows more about it than I do.
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 06/05/2003]
  9. Spoonerpaws

    Spoonerpaws New Member

    You seem knowledgeable in this area - I have been doing some reading on adrenal fatigue and feel this may be my problem.

    Even though my AcTH Test was normal, I still feel that I have an adrenal fatigue problem! I suffer from exhaustion, low blood sugar, and fatigue when moving up and down. I think these are classic symptoms of adrenal fatigue, but I cannot get a doctor to listen to me.

    What are you doing to try to correct your adrenal deficiency?
  10. Joyce1

    Joyce1 New Member

    thats why they did me in!!! the adrenalin. can't type whole story. doc said if glandular didn't help then i didnt have adrenal problem. one type made me crash badly.

    i just don't know who to trust as a local doctor. I'm in nashua nh.

    i wonder why i'm more like fm than cfs but have not got pain. yes counting blessings. i started as cfs - tired but can't get tired now just more adrenalin all the time.

    sorry depressing.... :-|

    jbk
  11. Joyce1

    Joyce1 New Member

    who is madwolf?


    jbk
  12. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Madwolf is a Physician's Assistant in Spokane, Washington who has Fibro (and his wife does too). He uses a protocol of small doses of natural hormones to treat some of our problems. He comes here often to answer our questions and is very generous with his time and help.
    Klutzo
  13. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I really think you need to get yourself to a holistic M. D. somehow and get an ASI test, a CMP (complete metabolic panel), a stool digestion test, allergy testing ,etc. They can code it so that everything except the food allergy tests will be paid for by insurance, but you must see a doctor, not a Naturopath, unless you are lucky enough to live in one of a very small number of states where they are licensed.
    Other things you can and must do to help your adrenals, whether you see a doc about it or not:
    1. Get those toxic leeches and other negative people out of your life. I am not kidding, they will suck your energy right out of you and you will never get it built back up. Be ruthless.
    2. Try to be outside for an hour every day, and be sure to be outside for at least 15 mins., preferably in the morning. If it's sunny, do NOT wear sunglasses while out there.
    3. Sleep in the darkest room possible. If you must have a night light, use a red Xmas light instead of a white or yellow bulb. Try to go to sleep no later than 10 pm if you possibly can.
    4. Take a mega B-complex vitamin daily with at least 50 mgs. of the basic B's in it.
    5. For the next two months, take an extra supp. of vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) in an amt. that will bring your total (adding in your B complex) of B5 up to 125 mgs. daily.
    6. Try not to do any acitivity you do not have to do. (I find this is by far the hardest one to stick to.) I know you will cheat on this, I do! But, consciously try to work on it.
    7. There is one important exception to number 6, SLOW walking. The more slow walking you can do ,the more you will use up your extra adrenalin. Do NOT try to power walk, as that causes your body to put out even more adrenalin.
    This is hard work, but it does help. My ASI showed severe adrenal failure in 1999, but now it is within normal ranges. I did this without drugs. I still have work to do, and I understand now that I will never be able to live like most people do and be healthy. I suggest you look up Dr. Gerald Poesnecker's website and read why this is so, if you have not already.
    Good luck and keep us posted!
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 06/07/2003]
  14. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    for Spoonerpaws
  15. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Yo, Spoonerpaws! Hope I didn't type all of that for nothing. K
  16. ssMarilyn

    ssMarilyn New Member

    Spooner must be out on the town tonight....

    Marilyn :)
  17. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Bump again
  18. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    and, bumping for Spoonerpaws. K

    I just ordered the book, thanks! I read on his website that be believes both FMS and CFS are caused by microorganisms that can only be detected by PCR testing, in otherwords, mycoplasmas.
    He feels long-term infection with these agents produces stress on the adrenals, which leads to adrenal fatigue,and that stress leading to adrenal fatigue can also precede FMS/CFS and make it easier for the mycoplasmas to take hold.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/08/2003]
  19. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

  20. klutzo

    klutzo New Member