Advice about Thyroid Meds: Not so Fast

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by woofmom, May 27, 2008.

  1. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    Manganese is essential for the formation of thyroxine, a hormone produced by the thyroid gland that regulates cellular metabolism. Low thyroxine levels in the body lead to an accumulation of fluid under the eye, LOW BASAL TEMPERATURE, fatigue, decreased appetite for healthy foods and increased appetite for sugar, salt, caffeine, and other stimulants, dull dry hair and skin, constipation, reduced mental and physical vigor, sleeplessness, slurred speech, clumsiness, and numbness and tingling in the hands and feet. If your diet and dietary supplements are adequate in iodine and you are not consuming foods that inhibit iodine and you identify with many of the symptoms of low thyroxide levels, then Manganese may be an important supplement for your consideration.......There is entirely too much incomplete information floating around.
  2. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    Info about Manganese is all over the internet. I'm fully confident that you can research it and post this info for all to read. Parts of my body that need Manganese are healing and I'm experiencing a great deal of discomfort. I'm going to bed.
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    [This Message was Edited on 05/27/2008]
  3. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    ithyroid dot com .....And underactivity of the parathyroid gland shows high blood levels of phosphorous (manganese deficiency). I connected this even before I read the above article. I also asked my very knowledgeable chiropractor if this is true and he said it is. If you'd like I'll be glad to show you how to research and make the connections between mineral deficiencies and a number of different health conditions.
  4. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    This actually is interesting.

    There have been at least a few people who have taken manganese as part of their efforts to support methylation (I think for ammonia? it's mentioned briefly in the Puzzle book). I was taking it myself for a while, though I stopped when I had to leave all my supplements behind in my poisoned house and haven't repurchased it.

    Anyway, one benefit attributed to the methylation has been a decrease in the need for thyroid medication. I wonder how many of those people experiencing this effect were taking manganese and whether that (rather than or in addition to the detoxification effects) might have been of help to them.

    I was in too bad of shape from the mold to be monitoring my own thyroid properly, and in any case it seemed to be randomly jumping around at that point. (Apparently this is common with mold poisoning.) I've not yet felt like I've been able to lower my T3 dose even away from the mold and with the continued methylation though.

    Maybe I will get some manganese and see what happens. I do well supplementing hormones, but it's always better to have your own body be able to make them itself. Plus if I'm short on manganese, undoubtedly it's having other negative effects.

    So, thanks!
  5. Scapper

    Scapper New Member

    Manganese -- interesting.

    I'm having many thyroid issues -- I'm wondering if this would be of benefit.

    Since my thyroid is "off" on a few levels I have just about every "symptom" you mentioned. What caught my attention was the puffy eyes. I get this periodically and it runs in you've got me wondering?????

    I'll look into this.

    Thanks Lisa for mentioning that this is in the Puzzle Book -- I wasn't aware Yasko recommends this.

  6. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    Biotin makes hair(so to speak). Manganese enables biotin. I've had alopecia twice. And a reason for reactivated viruses could be because Manganese enables Vitamin C. Vitamin C is an essential nutrient. Mosquitoes love me. Vitamin B1 is said to help with this. Manganese is needed to enable Vitamin B1. Manganese is also required as a cofactor for superoxide dismutase. Superoxide dismutase is a very powerful free radical scavenger.
    [This Message was Edited on 05/28/2008]
  7. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    I'm finding that I don't have MCS. I have mineral deficiencies. I'm finding that I don't have CFS. I have mineral deficiencies. I have recently developed would be considered FM. I don't have this either. I have mineral deficiencies. I don't have migraine disease. I have mineral deficiencies. I don't have mental problems. I have mineral deficiencies. I don't have EBV, Lyme, Mold Illness, Post Polio Syndrome, Aspartame poisoning, mycoplasms, etc. I have mineral deficiencies. I don't have yeast nor am I overly acidic. I have mineral deficiencies. I don't have digestion or pancreatic problems. I have mineral deficiencies. I don't have a rheumatic or autoimmune disease. I have mineral deficiencies.
    [This Message was Edited on 05/27/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 05/27/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 05/28/2008]
  8. LittleBluestem

    LittleBluestem New Member

    What test(s) do you use to determine in which minerals you are deficient?
  9. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    Blood tests are not accurate because the levels fluctuate according to what you eat and drink. Urine and stool show what you are excreting. The only way to get accurate tests are from hair samples. This can show mineral levels over a long period of time.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/04/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 06/04/2008]
  10. grace54

    grace54 New Member

    Good information. I have been convinced of the mineral starvation diets of the west with the advent of my new and profound energy of the last couple of months and the less pain and recovery time after very strenuous activity.

    I believe that is one reason these popular fruit drinks are helping people feel better and energised without added stimulants like caffeine etc. The mangosteins and Acai fruits are very clean and packed with nutrients, minerals etc. These exotics are also have huge anti-oxidant levels as well. Another thing I found taking them is that the digestive tract works much better and I crave other real foods such as vegetables and other fruits. I have had a sluggish thyroid for years and never was able to lose weight but with my working out I am at pre sickness levels like when I was energetic.

    It's hard to wrap our mind around something so simple alleviating our symptoms as we read of the complexities from the well known Dr's who have studied these syndromes for years. I really believe they do not know or tell us much about the importance of minerals. It may be entirely possible that sick people need much more than they are getting from their diets to allow the body to heal. The people who study nutrition maintain that we will need to supplement for life as the land has lost it's mineral content on these super farms.

    One researcher brought out the fact that one can grow just about any vegetable on land that may have only a couple of minerals in the soil. That is all it takes to grow a nice looking fruit or veggy and then they spray it before the market to make it mature but when all is said and done it has very little nutritious value. On top of that only a few percentage of people get the required 5 fruits and vegetables now days and I suspect if that nutrient content were studied the suggestion would be ten or twenty servings a day. And that is another reason for the nutritious drinks as one can be assured of their mineral intake drinking a couple of ounces per day instead of having to prepare a huge amount of food.

    I plan to get my thyroid levels checked soon as I still supplement with a compounded med. as my new found energy and weight loss may in part be contributed to my thyroid functioning better from the minerals I am getting. I maintain that if we give our body what it needs for nutrition it will stimulate the hormones , immune system etc. and heal us. We all need to find out why our body is not fighting off these infections or why our hormones are out of balance. It matters not if it is Lyme, mold, MCS or any infection as these are all just symptomatic of the syndromes that are at record levels. We are our own best Dr.Thanks:)
  11. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    This is from

    "Manganese is found most richly in whole grains, legumes, nuts, tea, fruits and vegetables. The content in these foods varies greatly, but most people get enough without really trying. The Total Diet Study done in 1986 showed that on average, men ate 2.67 to 2.9 mg of manganese a day, and women ate 2.2 to 2.3 mg a day. SINCE THERE ISN'T A PROBLEM WITH MANGANESE IN OUR COUNTRY, THOSE AMOUNTS SEEM TO BE SUFFICIENT.” (Italics are mine.)

  12. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    This is from:

    "In 1936, Rex Beach presented document #264 to the US Senate, which discussed Dr. Charles Northen’s research on the prevalent mineral depletion of America’s soil. At that time, North America’s soils were estimated to be hugely lacking in mineral content and 99% of Americans were considered mineral deficient. Dr. Northen conducted experiments in which he restored the mineral balance to the soil of one area of a crop and left another area alone. The plants grown in mineral-rich soil consistently yielded healthier crops free of pests and fungus."

    If you refuse to believe that mineral deficiencies exist, you won't be able to treat them. I take tons of minerals every day. I was supposed to go without them for 2 days to take a minerals and heavy metals test last weekend. After less than 24 hours without my mineral supplement, I felt really bad and had electrolyte problems and had to get back on them right away.

    But according to my stupid doctor's interpretation of my blood work, I have adequate levels of minerals. I guess that means that if he treated what was really wrong with me, he couldn't sell me some drug and I wouldn't be coming back for repeat visits. That's why the medical profession doesn't treat nutritional deficiencies.

  13. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Since the soil is depleted, the plants don't get adequate amounts of it.

    you said:

    While soil may be depleted, we still get enough Manganese through our diet.

    How can you get sufficient manganese in the foods when the foods are getting it from the soil? You can't have manganese (or any mineral for that matter) depleted soil and then get it in your diet. Food doesn't manufacture it's own manganese, it has to absorb it from the soil.

    And then if you cook the plants, many of the minerals come out in cooking. Then your digestion has to adequately absorb and assimilate the nutrients properly. And since digestion is one of the things not operating properly, it's pretty obvious we're deficient in nutrients, including minerals. Nutritional deficiencies in CFS patients are widespread and it's common knowledge. So it's safe to say we're all deficient in minerals.

    You have to fix digestion. And meanwhile, you supplement with minerals because you can't fix digestion without giving it the nutrition it needs.
  14. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Why do think there is soil testing and fertilizer? And we're talking about mineral deficiencies in CFSers. So obviously, they're not getting the nutrients they need from food, including minerals, but not just because of depleted soil.

    this is from:

    "Basically, Teitelbaum's regimen can be (admittedly rather simply) summed up this way: "Fix the sleep, nutrition, hormones and infections and the patient will generally feel better." He's described his treatment protocol this way: "The whole protocol consists of more than 150 different treatments that vary from person to person, but let me give you the heart of the protocol. I view this illness not as the enemy but as a circuit breaker. In a house, you have a fuse box and, if there's a power surge, instead of burning out the wiring, it turns off the circuit breaker. That's what this disease is like. It protects people in the face of severe stresses - whether they're situational stresses, toxic exposures, infections, or a host of different things - by turning off that circuit breaker."

    He considers the circuit breaker to be the hypothalamus in the brain. "What we found in our studies is that when that happens, there are four things you need to do to turn the circuit breaker back on. You need to get the person eight to nine hours of solid sleep a night. You need to treat the NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCIES - and they're widespread. You need to treat the hormonal deficiencies; however, blood tests for hormone status are not reliable when the hypothalamus isn't working. Those tests are based on normal hypothalamic function, so if you rely on those tests, you're going to miss the problem. Instead, you determine deficiencies by symptoms," he said."

    this is from:

    "Multiple NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCIES have been demonstrated in chronic fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia. This occurs largely because of malabsorbtion associated with opportunistic infections, associated gastrointestinal disturbances resulting in poor appetite, and increased nutrient needs because of their illness. Because of the widespread nutritional deficiencies, supplementation with high potency powders is strongly recommended.6"

    this is from:

    "What causes fibromyalgia? No one really knows. Suggested causes include: immune system problems, physically unfit muscles, disturbance in brain chemistry (clinical depression), sleep disturbances or insomnia, food allergy, emotional stress, NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCIES, or even anemia (4)."

    this is from:

    "Some researchers speculate that chronic fatigue syndrome may be caused by DEFICIENCIES in a variety of NUTRIENTS, including carnitine. L-carnitine has been compared to a medication for fatigue in a study of 30 people with CFS. Those who took L-carnitine did much better than those who took the medication, particularly after receiving the supplement for 4 to 8 weeks."

    this is from:

    "Diet affects FMS symptoms for some people, either through a food-sensitivity or a NUTRIENT DEFICIENCY. Whether or not people are actually allergic to foods, many people with FMS have food sensitivities. Symptoms affected may include headache, fatigue, ‘fibrofog’, mood swings, insomnia and, of course, irritable bowel. Common food sensitivities: wheat and corn, dairy products, caffeine, yeast, sugar, citrus. Some people are sensitive to chemicals such as monosodium glutamate or Aspartame.

    Vitamin and mineral DEFICIENCIES may also be important. Though it is not know for sure how specific nutrients affect FMS, some seem likely to be important. For example, calcium is important for muscle function and bone strength; with magnesium, it acts as a muscle relaxant and sleep inducer. Vitamin D helps in absorption and metabolism of calcium; low vitamin D causes muscle aches and restless sleep. Vitamin B3 and B6 and magnesium DEFICIENCIES are common in fibromyalgia sufferers. In general, taking a good multivitamin mineral supplement is a good way to get a balance of nutrients."

    this is from:

    "Underlying factors that contribute to fatigue should be evaluated and treated when possible. Contributing factors include anemia, depression, anxiety, pain, dehydration, NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCIES, sedating medications, and therapies that may have poorly tolerated side effects."

    this is from:

    Nutrition from our daily food intake is usually not enough because we just don’t take time to eat right, so most of us need nutritional supplements for that reason plus several more reasons.

    First, soil depletion due to re-farming the same soil has reduced the nutrition in our foods. For example, USDA tests found that in 1936, fresh spinach (100 grams) had vitamins and minerals equal to158 mg. By 1965, the same amount of fresh spinach had reduced to 27 mg. Today, it’s down to 3 mg.

    The nutrient content of food is reduced even further during processing, transport and storage. Refining processes and cooking reduce nutritional value by destroying 20 percent to 50 percent of vitamins, most of enzymes, some amino acids, and leaches out minerals.

    Second, our nutritional needs change as we age and with our health status. Nutrient absorption differs among people.

    And third, it’s practically impossible to eat a balanced diet every day as recommended by the USDA’s Food Pyramid. And, it’s expensive to eat all the recommended foods. If you don’t eat the right foods and if you don’t take vitamins, you will be at greater risk for ergonomics problems and other problems (heart disease, cancer, brittle bones, etc.).

    Many health problems are either caused or aggravated by NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCIES. As a result, medical research published in the Journal of the American Medical Association recommends that everyone should take vitamins.
  15. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    I am specifically talking about manganese.

    I know nutrition is important.

  16. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Well, manganese is a nutrient.
  17. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Minerals work together. It would take a post the size of an encyclopedia to explain all the interactions. So you would take a balanced mineral supplement, not manganese by itself. You seem to think we're talking about a manganese only deficiency. Here's a really far out idea - why don't you take a mineral supplement and see if you feel better?

    If you don't believe you have any deficiencies, you are never going to be able to treat them. Why do you think you are different from other CFSers who have deficiencies?
  18. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    The great Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling stated: "Every disease, every sickness, and every ailment can be traced to a mineral deficiency". This is true.
  19. grace54

    grace54 New Member

    I have been looking for that information from the Rex Beach document and this will help me locate it. I also thought the rest of the quote from Down to earth was worth pasting here. I also followed Dr. T's advice and it worked for me. :)

    Minerals: The Overlooked Necessity

    Dr. Linus Pauling, winner of two Nobel Prizes stated: “You can trace every sickness, every disease and every ailment to a mineral deficiency.”

    Nutrients such as vitamins, proteins, enzymes and amino acids, are required for our bodies to function properly. These nutrients are dependent upon minerals. Minerals are predominantly obtained from the food we eat, and the mineral content of that food is dependent upon the mineral content of the soil it grows in. Therefore, depleted soils create mineral deficient food.

    All of this results in mineral deficient bodies, from which comes an abundance of health problems and degenerative diseases. A few of the major symptoms and illness linked to mineral deficiencies are osteoporosis, bone and muscle weakness, growth failure, mental apathy, paralysis, glucose intolerance, anemia, poor wound healing, changes in hair, skin and nails, and liver problems. A lack of minerals can also lead to weight gain, as a deficiency leaves your body craving minerals and never feeling satiated. A shortage of even one mineral in your body can trigger all sorts of problems.

    In 1936, Rex Beach presented document #264 to the US Senate, which discussed Dr. Charles Northen’s research on the prevalent mineral depletion of America’s soil. At that time, North America’s soils were estimated to be hugely lacking in mineral content and 99% of Americans were considered mineral deficient. Dr. Northen conducted experiments in which he restored the mineral balance to the soil of one area of a crop and left another area alone. The plants grown in mineral-rich soil consistently yielded healthier crops free of pests and fungus.

    Around the same time, famed soil scientist Dr. William Albrecht was performing studies on calcium content in soils. Albrecht’s results showed that sufficient calcium levels produced plants with higher quantity and quality of protein. Dr. Northen concluded, “Healthy plants mean healthy people. We can’t raise a strong race on a weak soil.”

    Studies showed then, and maintain today, that the vegetables, fruits, grains, milk and even animal products that are eaten today, do not provide the same nutrition as they did 100 years ago. It is impossible for a person today to acquire all his mineral needs from food because our soils have become so deficient. Hundreds of years of farming the soil, combined with the effects of pesticides, herbicides, and air and water pollution, have slowly drained the soil of its vital elements.

    In 1936, the importance of minerals in food was a relatively new concept that Dr. Charles Northen and Dr. William Albrecht were only beginning to introduce to the scientific community. Their research and experimentation produced startling truths about the importance of minerals in soil and the effect of mineral depletion on the health of our bodies. Studies today confirm Dr. Northen’s conclusion that the mineral content of soil does in fact affect the mineral content of the food grown in it. Unfortunately, 68 years later, little has been done to better the mineral content of North America’s soil. The 1992 Earth Summit soil mineral depletion report showed soil depletion in North America to be at 85 percent, the highest in the world. This is a sad statistic for a country that is supposed to be healthy and prosperous.

    Fortunately, it is possible to ensure sufficient mineral intake. See our Health Tips section for information about mineral supplements and eating right.

  20. slowdreamer

    slowdreamer New Member

    Sorry to disagree but I have had 2 reputable hair tests.A few excess toxic elements which I addressed and cleared by the second test, but in the mineral area the only low reading was for sodium and i crave and eat piles of salt

    I grow my own veges and use mineral rock fertilisers etc but you know I reckon there is a more complicated thing going on ,in my case anyway.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/04/2008]