Alpha & gamma Streptococcus - How to treat?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by LISALOO, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    I had a CDSA, am working on treating myself on my own now, as my dr totally discounted how hard supplements are on Interstitial Cystitis and had no clue about it. Anywho, I had alpha haemolytic streptococcus 4+ and gamma haemolytic streptococcus 4+ through geneva diag.

    How can I treat this. I can't do oregano oil. That (biotics research's ADP) brought my IC out of remission and 4 months later and still struggling.

    What else can you think of that won't affect my bladder?
  2. ulala

    ulala New Member

    is saying, that these bacteria are causing CFS. One of the bacteria he said is responsible is
    streptococcus. Your results back up his findings. I only know of antibiotics that treat these bacteria. Can you take antibiotics?
    [This Message was Edited on 06/01/2009]
  3. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    ulala- thanks for your response.

    I can take some antibiotics they do hurt my IC. DOn't know how long I would have to even be on antibiotics for these bacteria.

    I don't know who in my area would even be knowledgeable about these to help me. I live in WI and would travel if someone knows someone who treats.

    After some seraching today,I have read that some drs prescribe cipro (none were named), but I was on that for a week for a bladder infection, no change in my CFS symptoms, my bladder was more irritated.


    [This Message was Edited on 06/02/2009]
  4. ulala

    ulala New Member

    I think that an infectious disease doctor would be the best to treat you for this. I found a link that states that intestinal strep is suspectible to penicillin. See attached link:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=_c0EdSm91owC&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=%22intestinal+streptococcus%22&source=bl&ots=vxZt55214V&sig=OGEOBpnBQQhrRx-RZwhXGPGWMzs&hl=en&ei=hpAlSuPMBoTUswPRzICPBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10

    I don't know if this link will work, it looks very long!

    or google "intestinal streptococcus"
  5. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    Thanks for the link, I would check it out. My husband said maybe a gastrologist would be good.

    Unfortunately I've always been allergic to penicillin since a child, I throw it up quickly.

    I need to find a dr in the midwest who can help prescribe.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/03/2009]
  6. ulala

    ulala New Member

    gastroenterologist. general practitioner, or infectious disease doctor can prescribe antibiotics for you. You have the test results so any of these kinds of doctors should be able to help you.

    I'm curious what your symptoms are. Do you get bloated and constipated? I noticed that when was getting IV antibiotics I was going to the bathroom up to three times a day, which is supposedly ideal. Tat means your body is working properly. When I'm taking any antibiotics I'm lucky to go 1x every three days (sorry, too much information). I'm curious if the bacteria that you tested positive for can cause these kinds of problems.

    I took penicillin when I was a kid and the inside of my ear swelled up. I didn’t take it again because I thought I was allergic to it. I was tested for penicillin allergy a year ago and found out that I am not allergic to it. They inject tiny amounts under the skin on your arm. I actually felt much better after those tiny injections and have taken it in the past with no problems. I don’t' think throwing up from penicillin is considered an allergy. Did you take it with food? If I take doxycycline without food I will throw up, but if I take it with some food no problem.

    I hope you can get treated soon and the treatment makes you feel much better!

    Best wishes!
  7. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    My symptoms are definately constipation, if I don't take something, forget it. I can't find that much about the bacteria that I have so I don't know if they cause the symptoms I have. I do know when I have colon hydrotherapy, I feel more energetic.

    The last time I had penicillin was when I was 17 and had my wisdom teeth taken out, and I puked after years of no penicillin.

    I just don't think most regular system drs know squat about Cmprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis's or what to do about them. I have teh University of Wisconsin Hospital System, and you think they would be knowlandgeable about these issues, but CFS, forget it. The rheumatologist only said it was POTS and couldn't understand that it wasn't just that. And he was supposed to be a CFS Specialist. Anything I need help about, forget it. I went to an endocrinologist, they said everythings fine (I know I don't go from T4 to T3 correctly.).
  8. panthere

    panthere Member

    I just got my Comprehensive stool analysis from DD and I have same bacteria as you though in smaller quantities, +2, +3. I also have citrobacter freundii under dysbiotic flora and b.hominis under parasitology. I am going to see Dr. Gruenn tomorrow about it so i will let you know what he says. I think he might just treat me for my parasites and dysbiosis first and see if it clears the other ones. Anyways, I'll let you know!
  9. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    Thanks! Let me know what your dr says! Where is he located?
  10. panthere

    panthere Member

    He's in Los Angeles http://www.drgruenn.com/
  11. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    thanks, let me know how your apt goes
  12. wendyo

    wendyo New Member

    lisa
    i am familiar with the area and uw and yea its a joke for cfids
    i bet it was dr m you saw
    have you heard of dr ann outside of uw? she does more integrative stuff.
    i did the same test as you and am doing a gut protocol thru her right now.
    I wouldnt mind exploring more though like if should try abx.
    i need to find my results, remember strept did show up but cant remember how high, i had it a lot as a kid the strept throat.
    backchannel me if you want tonesontail84 at yaHOo
  13. ulala

    ulala New Member

    and Enterococcal Infections Streptococcal


    General (Murray 3rd (Ed pp 189

    .to cause dramatic and life threatening diseases Unlike Staph, these are catalase negative and recently have a tendency .anaerobes, whilst species that are aerobes, capnophilic (CO2) also exist a capsule present in actively growing cells. Most species are facultative streptococci are gram positive organisms are non-motile, and there is ,Like Staphylococcus genus


    :is quite difficult as there are three different types available namely The classification of Streptococci

    (serological properties) Lancefield groupings
    (alpha, beta, and gamma) Haemolytic properties
    (physiological) Biochemical properties


    .notes, and group them according to their haemolytic patterns These notes follow the lecture


    If haemolysis is complete ? then we call it beta-haemolytic
    If haemolysis is incomplete ? then we call it alpha-haemolytic
    If there is no haemolysis ? then we call it gamma-haemolytic


    Pathogenesis

    .(appearing in cell free filtrates (i.e.: endo wall of the bacteria – and they affect intracellularly rather than produce endotoxins – these are heat stable toxins, found in the cell cytokines that mediate the shock and organ failure that results. Pneumococci themselves, acting on macrophages, and helper T cells – which release toxins called: pyrogenic exotoxins, these toxins act as antigens in capsule that protects it against phagocytosis. Streptococci produce Group A Streptococci has a


    – haemolytic Streptococci Alpha

    salivarius, S. Mitis .S. mutans, S. sanguis, S

    .endocarditis, suppurative intraabdominal infections, brain abscesses tract. These organisms are mostly associated with dental caries, infective Streptococci have been isolated in the oropharynx, GIT, and genitourinary the production of green pigment on the blood agar plate. The Viridans and non-haemolytic Streptococci – and their name derives because of This group contains the alpha-haemolytic


    Diagnosis

    the infection/wound, blood agar, blood culture Diagnosis is achieved by swab ? .determine if alpha-haemolytic


    Treatment

    .is preferable observed in 10% pf the species. A combination of penicillin + gentamicin are susceptible to penicillin – although moderate resistance has been Most strains of viridans streptococci


    Murray 3) Streptococcus Pneumoniaerd (Ed pp 200

    .if incubated anaerobically are alpha haemolytic if incubated aerobically, and may appear beta haemolytic dissolve – leaving a dimpled appearance on the blood agar plate. Colonies and round. Autolysis is common when aging occurs; the central colonies gram positive coccus. The cells are lancet shaped, colonies are large ,This organism is an encapsulated


    Pathogenesis

    activate alternate complement pathway cells to the focus of infection. Teichoic acid and peptidoglycan fragments cells – if movement occurs, there is a net migration of inflammatory respiratory tract can be avoided if removed by mucus and ciliated epithelial by means of attachment to the epithelial cells – movement into the Isolates itself in the oropharynx ? C5a produced ? furthermore, pneumolysin ? (activates classic complement pathway (C3a & C5a ? activated leukocytes produce cytokines ? .migration of further inflammatory cells


    Clinical Manifestations

    .Meningitis, Bacteraemia, Septic arthritis, Osteomyelitis ,Lobar bronchopneumonia, Sinusitis


    Diagnosis

    .growth – if incubated overnight of the agar plate with growth – then see ring of inhibited bacterial sensitivity can also be identified, place an optochin disc in the middle whilst other alpha – haemolytic bacteria remain unchanged. Optochin ,Pneumoniae bacteria. Add a drop of bile to see if bacteria dissolve autolysins are activated – resulting in autolysis of the Streptococcus After exposure to bile, the


    Treatment

    .the drug to the penicillin binding proteins on the bacterial wall chloramphenicol. Resistance is spreading due to decreased affinity of ,agent. If allergic to penicillin use: ethrythromycin, cephalosporins after the advent of antibiotics, penicillin became the main therapeutic that it will opsonise the bacteria for efficient phagocytosis. However was available, type specific antibodies will be passively infused so Before antimicrobial therapy


    .cell disease, HIV +, young + the elderly but does not work effectively in patients that are asplenic, have sickle ,of a pneumococcal vaccine – which is immunogenic in well patients Prevention is by the development


    Murray 3) Beta-Haemolytic Streptococcird (Ed pp 189

    .are used for this group of Streptococci – based on C antigen The Lancefield method of groupings


    (S. pyogenes) Group A Streptococci

    .bacteria” infections arise from Group A Streptococci. Often called “flesh eating Almost 90% of human streptococcal


    Pathogenesis/Virulence Factors

    phagocytosis Capsule: protects cell against

    therefore protects against phagocytosis ,to beta-globulin factor H, this destabilises C3b responsible for opsinisation M Protein: Binds prefentially

    (cant be detected now) portion of IgG, IgA – therefore coating bacteria with host antigen M-like Proteins: Can bind Fc

    bacterial attachment to the epithelial cells of the oropharynx F protein: major adhesin for

    Streptolysins S & O: S ? cell. O release of lysosomal contenst after phagocytosis therefore killing phagocytic can lysis red blood cells, leukocytes, and platelets, can stimulate ? .(ASO test) antibodies easily formed, therefore good detection of recent infection

    .clots, therefore are responsible for easy spread of the Group A Streptococci Streptokinases: can lyse blood

    occurs free DNA present in pus, dilution of pus – spreading of infection Deoxyribonuclease: depolymerise

    .which is responsible for recruitment and activation of phagocytic cells ,C5a peptidase: disrupts C5a


    Clinical Manifestations

    :and non-suppurative conditions This can be divided into suppurative

    Suppurative
    Pharyngitis
    Scarlet Fever
    infection of skin Pyoderma: purulent
    infection of skin Erysipelas: acute
    of deep subcutaneous tissues Cellulitis: infection
    occurs infection begins deep in subcutaneous tissues, muscle and fat necrosis :Necrotizing Fasciitis
    .failure, affects multiple organ systems local infections spread to affect organs, leading to shock and organ :Toxic shock syndrome
    Non-suppurative
    (is a non-suppurative sequelae of pharyngitis Rhematic fever (this
    (this is a non-suppurative sequalae of Skin infections) Acute Glomerularnephritis


    (S. agalactiae) Group B Streptococci

    .(another infant ,bacteraemia and meningitis (acquired from exogenous source eg: mother Early onset causes bacteraemia, pneumonia, meningitis. Late onset causes .more due to lack of complement, which is required of bactericidal activity insufficient levels of maternal antibodies. Also neonates are affected the human vagina. It is rather pathogenic in neonates, due to their This is common commensal in


    (Streptococci (S.milleri Other beta-haemolytic

    :Groups C,F,G. Two species associated with human disease in Group C The most common ones here are .S anginosus & S equisimilis .associated with abcess formation sequelae to acute glomerulonephritis but never rheumatic fever. Former ,Produce large colonies with beta haemolyis, latter can cause pharyngitis


    .bacteria is by penicillin and erthyromycin of Group A achieved by bacitracin sensitivity. Treatment of this group & G. Group A also part of S. milleri group. Tentative identification ,Former also part of Group F


    (Streptococci (Both are same thing Enterococci and Group D

    common enterococcus is Group D Streptococci that were not part of the Enterococci. The most to be classified as Enterococci, in simple terms. But there were some Group D Streptococci were found .E. faecium, & E. facaelis


    General

    .species of PYR etc) are required for further differentiation of the enterococcal organisms. Other phenotypic tests such as (motility, fermentation, hydrolysis distinguish enterococci from other catalase negative, gram positive salts, and can hydrolise esculin. These basic properties are used to They appear as white colonies, grow in 6.5% NaCl, tolerate 40% bile .cocci, facultative anaerobes, and grow readily on blood agar media The enterococci are gram positive


    Pathogenesis and Immunity

    .survival of the organisms despite antimicrobial therapy They possess several genes that encode resistance, and can also permit .cause serious disease. Can cause UTIs, nosocomial infections, endocarditis potential for causing serious disease but the right combination can Usually commensal, have limited


    Diagnosis

    .(other phenotypic tests (motility, pigment production etc optochin, do not dissolve when exposed to bile, hydrolysis of PYR) and from other organisms by simple biochemical tests (eg: resistance to agar, and chocolate agar (heated agar plates). They can be readily differentiated They readily grow on blood


    Treatment and Prevention

    .by plasmids, resistance is transferable to other bacteria Because these resistance to aminoglycosides and vancomycin are mediated .50% resistant to ampicillin, and further 25% reports resistance to vancomycin ,resistance has made is difficult to treat. 25% resistant to aminoglycoside penicillin, aminoglycosides, and vancomycin but recently high level Traditionally, therapy uses


    .colonisation of bacteria careful use of antibiotics – strict infection control, can reduce Prevention is complex, but


    S. bovis

    .case, along with Bile dissolvation being negative this is the exception to that rule. PYR hydrolysis is negative in this D Streptococci. Remember I mentioned that Group D = Enterococci – This is nonenteroccocal group


    Anaerobic Streptococci

    .(it is a anaerobe :.abscesses, and epyema. Treatment is by penicillin and Flagyl (i.e Can infection already divitalised tissue such as wounds etc. Cause brain .This is a commensal organism
  14. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    Thanks for the artical, a little above my head, I'll have to print and reread. Where did you find this article (in case I have to go to a dr and bring it with me)

    [This Message was Edited on 06/04/2009]
    [This Message was Edited on 06/04/2009]
  15. panthere

    panthere Member

    Hi! So, just came back from my apt with Dr. Gruenn. He didn't think we need to treat that bacteria right now. I do have parasites b.hominis as i said, so that's what i am going to be treating. I will retest to see if there will be changes after treatment and if i need to do something else. He also wants me to do a breath test for bacteria to see what that shows. Sorry couldn't be more helpful...
  16. ulala

    ulala New Member

    googled "alpha haemolytic" and "gamma haemolytic." There's a lot to wade through and I went pretty far in the pages that came up. From what I read it seems that the antibiotics that streptococcus (sp)? are susceptible to are vancomycin, penicillin, gentamycin and amoxicillin. Also may need to add an aminoglycoside antibiotic. These are all heavy hitting antibiotics an many doctors may not prescribe them but because of your test results I would think that you could find a doctor who would prescribe them. The reason that I posted that article was because it mentioned these antibiotics and most of what I read pointed to these antibiotics.

    Also hopefully Ampligen will be approved very soon. I can finally start my stool test tomorrow, after being off antibiotics for one week. I can't believe how much my legs are swelling up while being off all antibiotics.

    I'm sure you can find someone to help you. Keep us posted.

    All my best to you!
  17. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    thanks, having a hard time finding a dr who knows about stool tests and is familiar with IC. It seems most drs familiar with the CDSA only do natural treatments. I also need someone who takes Medicare

    What antibiotics are you on and why?

    Will look for that article.
  18. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

  19. ulala

    ulala New Member

    I've been on a lot of antibiotics because I had a positive test for Lyme, but I'm also positive for sarcoidosis (which supposedly is indistinguishable from Lyme under microscope). I also have high IGG for EBV, CMG, HHV-6 and recently positive for active coxsackie.

    The antibiotics that have helped me the most are doxycycline, clindamycin, cipro and azithromycin. Supposedly doxy and azithromycin also have anti-inflammatory properties, in addition to anti-bacterial properties.

    Since you've had positive stool tests for two known culprits I would keep trying to get treated for those particular bacteria. The doctor who recently ordered the stool test for me said she wants to target treatment at whatever the test shows instead of just throwing random antibiotics at symptoms.

    All of my doctors here take Medicare. Do you have a general practitioner? If they know you then maybe they'll prescribe antibiotics targeted at the streptococcus and enterococcus. Have you contacted an infectious disease doctors? It's really hit or miss with doctors. Some will treat with antibiotics and others won't.

    I think you have to just keep researching doctors in your area. Is there anyone on this board that lives in your area? If worse comes to worse then maybe you will have to travel. Where do you live? I know you mentioned where you live, but I don’t' recall?

    Hopefully I'll get my results soon and I'll let you know the outcome and what, if any antibiotics are prescribed.

    Best wishes!
    [This Message was Edited on 06/15/2009]
  20. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    thanks for all your help. Unfortunately I have issues with antibiotics but will try tomorrow with a dr who may try to help. Even with diflucan and the diet I can't do antibiotics long-term. With IC, I can't do any probiotics that don't hurt.