Alpha Lipoic Acid...chelator and antioxidant

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by AllWXRider, Feb 22, 2007.

  1. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    PDR means "Physicians Desk Reference" and is used by doctors to look up meds, toxins and conditions.

    Alpha Lipoic acid has a half-life of 3 especially for chelation, take a smaller amount: 25mg or 50mg every 3 hours, 3 days ON, 3 days OFF.

    Synthetic drug chelators (DMSA & EDTA) remove toxins and metals from outside the cells (extra celluar) but ALA remove them intra-celluar and even crosses the blood-brain-barrier.

    "Lipoic acid's role in immunity is not well understood. There are reports that it can augment antibody response in some animal models of immunosuppression. This research warrants followup."

    "In some animal experiments, lipoic acid, administered for up to three months, significantly reversed the increase in nerve vascular resistance and the decrease in nerve blood flow in diabetic rats. Nerve conduction velocity was entirely restored in some nerve groups after three months of treatment."

    Viruses breathe glucose (sugar) so keeping it at an ideal lower level is vitally important.

    ALA is made by the human body and its a natural product but taking larger amounts of it certainly has benefits.
  2. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Dr. Cheney is a little wary of ALA because it can chelate too quickly. He recommends selenium or chlorella.

    Chlorella must be started slow. 1 capsule a day for a few months and then built up over time. It takes 2 years to detox. But Chlorella is much safer than synthetic pharmaceuticals.

    If you take two pill and get sick on Chlorella, your toxicity is too high. I didn't know this at first, and took 3 pills and got sick. I guess I have some toxicity.

    Thanks for posting info on the ALA. I like your dosage instructions. I was on ALA during the first dew months of my illness, and I stopped taking it because it was making me sicker. Now I know why. I was proably taking too much.

    BTW, are you improving on the detoxing and Transfer factors?

    Thanks for you input.



  3. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    Any chelator can work too quickly, that's why Dr. Cutler recommends 25mg for starters. The smallest dose that Prohealth has is 100mg. I dump the capsule into a canning jar and add water. The jar is nicely divided into 4 parts. It works great for my DMSA dosing too.

    Dr. Cutler also mentions that some ppl are allergic to chlorella. Chlorella absorbs some toxic metals like mercury but it doesn't get absorbed by the intestines, it works by absorbing what is dumped by the liver -> gallbladder -> small intestine. The small intestines can reabsorb the toxic metals. Chlorella chelates it there. The above is called the Entero-Hepato Loop. Also, Rich Carson mentions this.

    I'm afraid that you're allergic to chlorella.

    Dr. Cutler mentions that Selenium binds loosely to Mercury but our enzymes break it apart again over time, so its not a chelator, but is an important supplement as it is an antagonist to mercury.

    After my 7th round of DMSA chelation, I'm ready to add in the 25mg of ALA. I feel worse when I chelate, memory, depression, spaced out, angry and bad cognition. When I rest the 3 days, I feel better, better memory, depression is less. Less anger and I feel like I can drive with out getting lost or disorientated.

    After 8 months of Transfer Factors, I recovered to a point but never could exceed that threshold. Since Lead weakens the immune system, I know why.

    I still take TFs.

    Toxic metals come out slowly.

    If I was wealthy, I'd love to try Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy. It chelates (often too quickly) and oxidizes viruses.
  4. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Thanks for the info. What do you do to chelate the lead? How did you get lead poisoning? Do you have mercury and nickel poisoning, too? What is the name of Dr. Cutler's book again?

    Why would I be allergic to chlorella if I just take 1 capsule at a time?

    So many questions.


  5. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    DMSA is the best chelator for Lead, it works outside the cells. Extra-celluar. After this is cleared, then ALA is added along with the DMSA. ALA works intra-celluar. Don't do both at once as it overloads your system.

    I'm thinking that I got Lead from sanding down my old house. Also my copper pipes are soldered (Lead & Tin). I now have a Reverse Osmosis (RO) filter, it removes metals.

    Mercury doesn't really show on a Hair Analysis but it skews the healthy minerals per Dr. Cutler's info. I don't match that skewing. Nickel was low for me. Nickel only comes out via sweating.

    Dr. Cutler's book and website is NoAmalgams.

    An allergy is an allergy. Sometimes our body can produce a resistance to an allergen but Dr. Cutler says to try something else as chelating is hard enough.

    I very much believe in going natural as much as possible but Dr. Cutler says that the half-life of many toxic metals is 10-20 years. If you want to get better in this lifetime, then you have to use drug chelation.
  6. LittleBluestem

    LittleBluestem New Member

    I have been taking ALA for several years. I have seen it recommended fairly regularly as part in a regimen for increasing energy production. My bottle says that it is an antioxidant which promotes the synthesis of glutathione and is a co-factor in energy production, helping to regulate glucose metabolism. The one I am currently taking is sustained release, 300 mg ALA with 333 mcg biotin.

    I was surprised to see Rich refer to it as “pretty radical”. Does anyone know it that applies only to using it for detox? Since reading that, I have cut back on the ALA to 2 or 3 time a week until I can do more research on the subject.
  7. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    As an anti-oxidant, ALA prevents Free Radical damage.

    ALA is made by our cells but in very small amounts. If the American Medical Association (AMA) has run tests on it and published it in the PDR, then there is a lot of research and history behind it.

    The fact that it can pull out toxic metals from inside cells, past the BBB and actually help the liver is impressive. Even Dr. Cutler says that this natural product is a true chelator.

    Dr. Cutler says that most sustained release products don't work well since the pill gets pushed further down the colon with time. Thanks to ppl who have had part of their colon removed, doctors now know that its the first couple of feet of colon that absorb most of the nutrients.

    Do you know if you have toxic metals?
  8. spacee

    spacee Member

    So, this is what I am wondering. I started taking Alpha Lipoic Acid a few years ago AS RECOMMENDED BY DR. CHENEY in an article at this site. But that was a 2001 recommendation and things have changed.

    Well, it made me feel good. Mood elevation is what I am trying to say. Not well or able to do more. But my sis started taking it and her hubbby. They still take it. They love it for the same reason. I quit because I went on the Marshall Protocol.

    This is the big question. Does this mean that I don't have metal toxicity. I mean I do have a mouth full of almagams. On Dr. Cheney's DVD ( I refer to it alot these days). He mentions the mouth as being a problem and THEN says "particularly root canals". Hmmm.

    Yet from people's experience and I am sure Doc C. agrees mercury and other metals are a big problem.

    Any thoughts?

    I take 100 mg in the am and I was going to add 100 in the afternoon.

    That half life of metal and wanting to get well in this lifetime is sooo true.


    Just checked Lipoic Acid is still listed as recommended on home page by Dr. Cheney.

    [This Message was Edited on 02/23/2007]
    [This Message was Edited on 02/23/2007]
  9. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    If you have amalgam fillings, then you do have some metal toxicity. Mercury, silver, copper & antimony. The mercury gives off a gas (mercury vapor) and abrasion when chewing food all take some into the body. 20 years ago, I had some amalgam fillings replaced as they had gotten brittle and cracked. They do corrode and break down over time.

    Dr. Cutler says that ALA chelates out Antimony and Arsenic as well as Mercury. It weakly chelates Cadmium too.

    The caution that he discusses very strongly is re-distribution. As any chelator gets diluted, it will dump metals where ever. Knowing the Half-Life of a chelator tells you how often to retake it. With ALA its every 3 hours.

    Further testing, he tells us to take any chelator 3 days ON and 3 days OFF. This means getting up at night...I know, tell me about it.

    Also, since some ppl are real polluted. Start with 25mg/ dose. I'm buying 100mg capsules. I dilute it in a canning jar with water. Canning jars are marked off in 2 oz. and 50 ml.

    Since the ALA was improving your mood, its a great sign that it was working. Toxic metals affect our enzymes. Enzymes make neurotransmitters like serotonin. Serotonin is the "I feel good" [James Brown] neurotransmitter.
  10. swedeboy

    swedeboy Member

    Spacee, I would think that one should have their amalgams removed first before they start taking ALA.

    Also Does anyone know the amount of ALA in Pro Health's Mitochondria Ignite NT Factor?
  11. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    Lots of Vitamin C, as in natural or whole foods, is a great detoxifier. But, don't use concentrate. When it is processed, acetate. tons of sugar, and formaldehyde are added.
  12. spacee

    spacee Member

    My opinion on the ALA in Mitochoria Ignite is that it is very little. It is just in the growth media. And it has 13 ingredients ahead of it just in the growth media. The top two highlighted properties would be more (imho) because things are listed by the most to the least.

  13. spacee

    spacee Member

    I have a few porcelin (s?) and I am sure that they are over metal. Is that bad? Sounds bad to me.

    Then I have two molars that would need crowns and 7 others that would need filling replaced.

    We are talking a bunch of money and I just don't know if I will live long enough to recoup. I am 57.

    I know this is a decision that I have to make but any thoughts by anyone?

    I am going to try googling to get more info too.



  14. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    Huckfinn: Glad that you're encouraged. Let us know what results you get with ALA. Positive or negative.

    Spacee: I'm 48 and felt depressed enough to think the same thing but, you has to go on. I told my dentist my concerns about mercury and he said that several needed to be I just paid the extra for the composite fillings. If you still have insurance, call the dentist and ask.

    Movies are sooo bad about the sick, maimed and retarded as dying. The healthy and beautiful never die. It's brainwashing to think that way, but I call it euthanasia. I disagree.

    I say, go get yourself fixed up.
  15. spacee

    spacee Member

    I don't have such good dental insurance but it is better than nothing. It pays for one crown a year. Good thing I only need two...could be done in 12 months!

    Could you please tone down the fact that viruses breathe sugar. It's making feel guilty when I drink that pepsi. JUST's good to be reminded!!!

  16. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    Its true that you shouldn't take something away without offering a replacement. In Psychology, substitution is always more effective.

    In exchange for coffee (I have weak adrenals) I drink coffee + chickory. Less caffiene and chickory is a great source of FOS (food for probiotic bacteria).

    ALA stabilizes the blood sugar in diabetics. maybe another reason why it helps us CFS ppl.
  17. LittleBluestem

    LittleBluestem New Member

    No, I do not know if I have toxics metals. I do have metal amalgams, though. As long as I don’t know, I should probably be careful about using anything that might pull toxins out too fast.

    So, ALA has a short half-life, but time release tablets wind up not being entirely absorbed. Can’t seem to win for losing. With all of the pills that I am already taking, one that has to be taken on an every three hour schedule does not appeal. I wonder if a moderate dose taken three times a day wouldn’t help some with energy production.

    To give Rich’s comment a little better context, he wrote:
    “Pharmaceutical options can be pretty radical, and so can the nutrients NAC and alpha lipoic acid. Please do your researches before you take NAC, alpha lipoic acid, or any of the pharmaceutical drugs previously mentioned.”
    This struck me more as a warning than a comment on their activity as free-radical scavengers. I’m still wondering what it is that he wants us to learn when we do our research.
  18. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    From what Rich and Dr. Cutler are saying, start with small doses and watch for bad side effects. Take one "radical" at a time to verify which is the culprit.

    Like ALA, if you take it and you feel horrible, maybe you've released a bunch of toxic metals. Start small and go slow until you know.

    If ALA doesn't bother you then great. Taking it for energy production probably isn't as critical in the 3 hour dosage.

    One thing for sure, ALA will chelate out the mercury from your amalgam fillings. Is there anyway to get those removed?
  19. spacee

    spacee Member

    The Nac really caused me pain in my entire urinary tract. Others, though, don't have problems and can take it. Just chiming in.

    Well, again, you are reminding me of something I know BUT I am not doing. I LOVE stevia. In fact, I hide my box and leave the splenda for my huz. I am bad aren't I? Licorice tea? Well, till I find some I will make the green tea. I was making it but then I get distracted.


  20. MKate

    MKate New Member

    HI --

    I have been taking NAC for 2 years, and added ALA (much more that 25 or 100mg.....! Maybe I shouldn't be.

    Just got all my amalgums out (11 in 3 visits over 75 days)....feeling like crap.... but then, I wasn't doing well prior to that so it's hard to know what's overdoing it.

    I am taking 250 MG ALa and One NAC each day. I'm also taking Chlorella and lots of Vitamin C - and many other immune enhancing vitamins ($400/month)plus several other things that were mentioned in Rich Carson's letter. I don't have a doctor to work with.

    I wonder if I should slow down on the ALA? I just thought that together with detox mud baths, the Vit C and Chlorella -- I need somethings to pull the toxins away from the liver - and hopefully cary them through the intestines rather than redistribute.

    Maybe I'm simply redistributing them!

    Note: I still have 4 crowns - don't know what's under them, but dental progam and funds need to wait until next year!


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