Another one bites the dust!

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by TigerLilea, Aug 14, 2009.

  1. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    There goes yet another thread deleted by the moderators. It's sad that one person can ruin it for the rest of us around here. [This Message was Edited on 08/14/2009]
  2. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    I would just like to float an idea here, if I may.

    Is the problem really one person who goes against the grain or many, many people who keep on and on talking about what they said?

    Just a thought,

  3. hermitlady

    hermitlady Member

    I haven't looked around, but I'm guessing it was the Autism/CFS thread. It was getting a bit ridiculous. Oh well......
  4. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    I belong to another group where Rich Van K is also a frequent poster. Another member there starting attacking Rich very publically which, unfortunately, resulted in Rich changing how he interacted with us. One person spoiled it for everyone; I don't want to see yet another person make it impossible for Rich to continue corresponding with all of us via the internet and forums such as this one. Rich should not have to be defending himself or his research because of one person who is very anti-alternative medicine.

    When one person is continually disrupting threads, I honestly don't understand why the moderators here are allowing it to continue.
  5. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    When a person considers alternative medicine fraud/bogus then why even bother belonging to a forum that is owned by a company that sells alternative products??
  6. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi TigerLilea,

    It was pretty clear that the autism thread would be deleted, so I held off thanking some of the people who were supporting either me or the same cause (civility) I was working for. I want to thank you for your words of encouragement. I also would like to thank Rainbow, cfs since 1998, fredt, dannybex, kamina, and others. I can't remember everybody, but I appreciated all of your words and efforts.

    As I said in my last post, I really had to ask myself (after weeks of unrelenting vitriol toward patient x) whether there was anything I would ever stand up for again. I finally decided I would use some of my limited energy to make some pretty strong statements about how I saw things. I did so in part, because I just couldn't imagine being the target of such a malicious campaign, and not having anybody step forth forcefully to help me defend myself. Anyway, I decided to make a stand a couple weeks ago, but it now feels like I am done with this.

    Has anything changed? From all appearances, it doesn't look like it. But you know, I wondered when I decided to take a stand, whether I would end up regretting standing up for my principles (and what I believe are the principles of this board). Interestingly, even though it meant extra stress that I can clearly do without, I am happy I did so. In a way, it feels like I can live with myself a little easier, knowing I at least made an effort to stop some of the madness.

    Thanks for letting me borrow your thread to express a few thank yous. :)

    Best to All, Wayne[This Message was Edited on 08/14/2009]
  7. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Dear Rafiki,

    You ask a good question. I'm going to paste part of a private message I got over on Cort's board, and then I'll answer your question at the end.

    Private Correspondence I Received ...

    I am very glad to have found Cort's board. This is a far more healing positive energy board. Quite frankly Wayne the PH board became so negative that it was too draining for me to be there.

    I had already reached the level of needing to be in strict energy conservation mode and not being able to post much. But, all the negative posts started draining energy to read the negativity.

    It then occurred to me that the reason I originally came to the board seems to no longer exists. I came to learn from others and share information.

    Yet, any person (like Mike) who returns to share what has helped them there is a predictable cast of characters that relentlessly attack with credibility assaults.

    How will we ever learn what helps people that way? Why would anyone like Mike want to endure that? I have watched others before him just disappear. I don't blame them. But, still we have a need to learn what is helping others. It might just be a piece to our own illness puzzle.

    Rafiki, this is just one of a handful of messages I've received that shares some pretty similar sentiments. If you extrapolate this even a bit to consider those who have not written to me, it would be very easy to imagine there are many more people who fit into this category. And I think it would be safe to assume many of these people never participated in any of the negative back and forth on this board. They just left.

    This feels like a travesty to me. People are looking for safe, supportive places to learn more about the extraordinary circumstances they find themselves in, and how they can learn to help themselves. And many feel they can no longer come here for those needs.

    To answer your hypothetical question a little more clearly: It certainly seems to me that a single person and/or a small handful of people can change the entire complexion of a board like this. Not only do I think it can happen, I feel it has. This board was never perfect, but it has gotten to the point where many find it enervating and some even find it to be dangerous. I see nothing to prevent what has happened (and continues to happen) to patient x from happening to any one of us. Which is why I'll be making myself pretty scarce around here.

    Warm Regards, Wayne[This Message was Edited on 08/14/2009]
  8. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    I think it is okay to disagree.

    Yes we sometimes get passionate about things. Mine is alternative treatments that have not been proven. My issue.

    I fear posting something from another board and alluding to people is not going to help make this board more positive.

    I think I have posted this before. A tongue in cheek about debating.

    Argue the facts.

    If that doesn't work, use emotion.

    If that still doesn't work, attack the person.

    Someone mentioned Rich, I think he is wise enough to realize that not everyone is going to agree with him. Don't underestimate him. I respect his hard work, but do not have to agree with what he is saying.

    I think the thread was deleted as people were rather obsessive about getting their point across, again and again and again.

    We always have the option of going on to other threads. I know easier said than done. I think any board goes through periods like this. And we can learn a lot from these experiences.



  9. isiselixir

    isiselixir New Member

    we have such little energy that when we take the time to contribute to these lengthy threads or even to debate i consider it a good thing. i don't understand why the threads have to disappear, i have not seen anything abusive on here. maybe a little heated, but abusive, no.
  10. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    I agree that debate is a good, healthy thing, as long as people don't get to the point of attacking one another.....and I think that when this happens we would be better served if particular individuals who are acting way out of line were addressed by the moderators, rather than deleting the entire thread....and no, I'm not referring to anyone in particular here, just if/when problems occur, the individuals post(s) responsible should be the only ones deleted....and if the problem is bad enough, those particular individual(s) should be suspended from the board for awhile (I know of other boards where it is handled this way and it seems to work well).....the way that it is now, I am less likely to read and or participate as much as I would like, esp on certain threads, bc I know it is only a matter of time before they vanish....this is punishing the whole for the problems created by one or two
  11. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    Some of you know how much affection I have for you and some of you don't know but I have it nonetheless. I think you are all really dear people. But, we are people. People do this stuff. You should see some of the virtual punch-ups that take place on E-Sangha, the biggest Buddhist forum on the net. People are people.

    I understand what many have written about not having the energy for negativity. I certainly don't have it. I sometimes find myself moved, as I was here, to put my oar in but I usually remember that people can quarrel just as well without me and move on.

    As for other ME forums, there are quarrels on them, too, and we all know it. A board that was mentioned earlier has a couple going right now. There may be more here because, historically, there have been more members here. The mod.s used to be much quicker to yank a thread. I think they show real discretion now and allow the actual topic of the thread to play itself out. The threads don't actually get yanked until they are deep into: he said, she said, I can't take it anymore. I don't know if this is actually by design but it looks like very good moderation to me. We all know what's coming and can copy the thread. Threads tend not to get yanked until several people have said they would. And, no I'm not a mod and I don't know any of the mod.s. I'm just guessing.

    I just believe that we are all responsible for the tone of the board. If you think there's too much tension, add some peace if you can, and try not to add more tension. I can't always do it; sometimes I just need to move along and sometimes I succumb to the temptation to add to the turmoil. Nobody's perfect. It's not always easy for people to stay cool about things that effect them deeply. It's not always easy to stay cool when you are ill. It's way too easy to bring other frustrations to a place like this and let rip. We do that. People are people.

    I really do believe that "Be the change you want to see in the world." is the best course of action. But, we can't always do that. That's ok, we do what we can.

    I'm very muddle headed lately so I hope I have said what I intended to say. I guess all I want to say is that wherever we go we will find people quarreling and how we deal with it has a big impact, not only on the general tone of the board but on ourselves and our own peace of mind or lack thereof.

    I don't see bullies and victims here. I just see people struggling to make themselves understood, understand each other and deal with an incredibly frustrating and sometimes infuriating situation -- having ME. If we get a little crazy from time to time, it's not surprising.

    Be Peace when you can,

    ETA I was just thinking about the whole yanking threads thing. I wonder what criteria the mod.s use aside from blatant rule breaking. I wonder if the threads get yanked when people start posting that all the sturm and drang is making them stressed and sick. Seems to me that they don't disappear until people start expressing how stressed out the dialogue is making them. Could that be it?

    [This Message was Edited on 08/14/2009]
  12. Debra49659

    Debra49659 New Member

    I would have to agree with you, it has come to the point that I must copy all the posts that I find useful because I can't be sure if they will be there next time I long on!

    I copied Mikes post and I am glad to have all that information, some to use and some maybe not.

    Aunt also, I post very little anymore because I figure why waste my valuable time and energy if my opinion about something that may be deleted!

    So much valuable information gone...that is so disappointing.

  13. SnooZQ

    SnooZQ New Member

    I'm wondering whether one of the reasons why "difficult discussion" threads get deleted is to help protect those on our board who are very sensitive, easily stressed, etc.

    I've heard some expressions to the effect of, since this is a support board, that's all we should do -- express positive support. I'm sure there are many people who benefit from such a service, but speaking for myself, I don't care to spend time begging to be patted on the head.

    On an entirely different forum (not CFS/FM related) I used several yrs. ago, there were issues with people's anxieties being triggered by certain discussion topics and/or by most disagreements between posters, no matter what degree of civility was used. Yet the majority of posters on that forum wanted to be able to discuss issues.

    The problem was resolved by adding an optional hot button, a flag indicator on the thread title, to warn away the very sensitive. If they peeked & got upset -- well, they'd been warned.

    I'm not sure the thread banning is entirely due to sensitivity issues, but I suspect that consideration is part of the decision to ban.
  14. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    Well said! I, too, suspect this may be a deciding factor.

    Peace out,
  15. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    >>>I'm wondering whether one of the reasons why "difficult discussion" threads get deleted is to help protect those on our board who are very sensitive, easily stressed, etc.<<<

    If a person is that sensitive and easily stressed then why read the thread at all??? Once a person realizes that a thread isn't to their liking, move on to the next one. Make a note of the name of the thread so that they don't accidentally go back to it again. I personally get annoyed by the whining and feel sorry for myself threads, however, I don't go complaining to the moderators because I don't like them - I just don't bother with those threads. Should those threads be deleted because I don't like them? - of course not.
    [This Message was Edited on 08/15/2009]
  16. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    I think SnooZQ was simply suggesting a possible motivation at work at PH and not stating her own position.

    (Excuse me SnooZQ if I got that wrong... or simply should not speak on your behalf. sorry!)

    I have a kid who belongs to support forums for a serious medical condition. They use the same kind of method SnooZQ describes for posts that may be "triggering" for members.

    I don't think it unreasonable to consider that PH may be responding to the posters who are posting about the distress they feel due to what they consider "negative" posts by others.

    Ok, taking my own advice and backing slowly out of this now.

    peace out,

    ETA FYI I'm not one of the distressed and, to borrow a phrase from SnooZQ, I'm not here to be patted on the head, it's just not what I happen to need.

    [This Message was Edited on 08/15/2009]
  17. SnooZQ

    SnooZQ New Member

    I find your post very logical & I used to feel exactly that way, myself. I don't think I'm one of the most easily stressed & offended on the board. I tend to look for interesting threads & sometimes those posts involve some degree of disagreement.

    However, over the years I've come to realize that stress thresholds & stress triggers vary greatly from one person to the next. Perhaps I had a deficit of understanding about just how easily some people get stressed out. It seems that, for some people, even starting in on some discussion threads is very distressing or anxiety-provoking.

    What I can relate to is, when my stress level increases (usually for me due to family issues), then I'm at more risk for a flare or increased pain or poor-quality sleep. I have found it helpful when I can signal to those around me that they should take their disagreements elsewhere -- and also helpful when they do so automatically.

    I don't know if it's possible to rig up some sort of add-on flag or word on the thread title to alert the very sensitive to the possibility of a thread that may upset them. But if it were possible to do it, I think it would be a kindness.

    And, it might allow more discussion threads to not be deleted??? -- That would be a plus, for me.

    That's all I mean.
    [This Message was Edited on 08/15/2009]
  18. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    Sorry, the way I worded my message did sound like I thought SnooZQ was stating it as her position. I realized that she was suggesting it as a possible motivation. Sorry about that, SnooZQ. I've gone back and changed the wording.

    Take care.
  19. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    It unfortunate that this forum doesn't have "folders" like some of the forums have (ie Delphi and The one group I belonged to had a "Hot" folder for any topics that could be potentially upsetting to others, or for any threads that were becoming heated, the moderator could move the thread there. This way, it was a win/win situation for everyone.

    I guess we have to put on our "visitor faces" when we visit here. Just smile and be nice. Don't be honest; just conform.

    Take care :)
  20. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    If we "flag" hot issues a problem that may come up is that one persons "hot" issue is another ones "cold". Yikes!!

    TL excellent point about conforming.