Any alternative to Samento as can't take more than 3 drops a day?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Bunchy, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. Bunchy

    Bunchy New Member

    Hi everyone - I hope you all had nice holidays and wishing you all a healthier new year!

    I am taking Samento and Noni for suspected chronic Lyme. I can't take antibiotics. I'm fine with the Noni but I can't get my dose of Samento up beyond 3 drops a day - I just can't sleep at all above that and get very constipated. Is there something else I could take. I have heard of the Lyme-targeted TF - is that any good? What about Cumanda (Sp?) ?? Any ideas?

    Love Bunchy x

    PS Also what is the cycle for Samento i.e. days off etc?
    [This Message was Edited on 12/29/2005]
  2. tansy

    tansy New Member

    It's not unusual to be unable to tolerate more than a very low dose especially in the earlier stages of treatment. I ended up having to stop samento then experiencing major difficulties on more than a very small dose, by that time I had learned the hard way to try and keep the level of die off down to a level my body was able to excrete. So I aimed for gentler herxing. Later on raising my dose was much easier. Being this sensitive to samento is often reported. There are other forums, some UK based, where there’s a lot of support whilst in these early stages; they helped me a lot.

    Lee Cowden introduced cumanda and burbur for those not making much progress on samento and noni, I find the burbur works like a laxative, and many report it makes herxing more tolerable. You could start with burbur then consider the cumanda which may cause even more herxing in the beginning but which can, according to feedback, increase the rate of progress. It is recommended that burbur be used before starting cumanda.

    The only way I could tolerate the herxing was to stay on a lower dose of samento for a while and by going back to basics again but different ones this time; some of the things I used are in Ken Lassesen's For What its Worth (FWIW) protocol.

    I also concentrated on ensuring the toxins were excreted and modulating my immune response having realised difficulties with these had made potentially beneficial Tx backfire on me. Enzymes to break down fibrin have been an important part of my regime, they can make samento and other antimicrobials more effective, anyone using these might have to adjust their doses of antimocrobials for a while. I took bromelain and serrapeptase initially, now I use natto and turmeric and prefer this combo.

    In Stephen Buhner’s book “Healing Lyme….” He suggests cat’s claw instead of samento, you may find his reasons for this apply to you. I was also very sensitive to die off and had very similar problems with the subsequent raised levels of bio, endo and neuro toxins you are experiencing, but can now tolerate the samento - so much so that I hate the longer breaks I have to take from it.

    All Tx for chronic borreliosis and late stage lyme are experimental; the good news is there are lots of options open to us.

    Love, Tansy[This Message was Edited on 12/29/2005]
  3. Bunchy

    Bunchy New Member

    What can I take to help suspected Lyme that *doesn't* cause insomnia.

    I am already in severe trouble with sleeping tablets and benzos and can't afford to go higher and in fact want to start weaning slowly as they are ruining my life!

    Tansy do the things you mention work without causing sleep problems and are they cheap to buy? (not much spare cash here,,lol)
    Could I maybe just take one drop of Samento with a small dose of something else? And also aren't you supposed to cycle Samento and Noni? How often?

    Please reply, mightily confused here, not least from lack of sleep...sigh.

    Love Bunchy x
  4. tansy

    tansy New Member

    Hi Bunchy

    Since you are herxing and sleep deprived; and I'm having additional problems due to a nasty bug that's going around, which means more brain fog again (sinusitis), I'll keep this relatively simple for both our benefits.

    The samento should be taken for 12 1/2 days then stopped for 1 1/2 days. A one week break should be taken every 3 months. I don't take breaks from the noni except to see if it's still helping.

    Since it's the holiday season, and you want to keep costs down, you could try lemon water; lemon juice in water helps in excreting the toxins from die off.

    Many find the burber I mentioned is good for easing the effects of herxing whether they are taking ABx or alternatives like samento.

    If you ring our doctor's office they can give you some advice, they are used to the problems many of us have in the earlier stages of Tx. The Heel detox kit mentioned below is available through them, but they may feel something else is more suitable for you.

    I have posted Lee Cowden's advice for helping excrete the toxins from die off elsewhere but will post it again here for you.

    love, Tansy[This Message was Edited on 12/31/2005]
  5. tansy

    tansy New Member

    *A few things can be done to minimize this healing crisis cascade of events.

    First, starting the treatment with TOA-Free Cat’s Claw at a very low dose and building up the dose very slowly and cautiously over many days reduces the rate of microbial die-off. This in turn reduces the production of the microbial toxins that create the die-off healing crisis reaction.

    Secondly, having the person who takes TOA-Free Cat’s Claw drink large amounts of pure water each day helps to flush the toxins out of the body faster. The preferable water intake is between ½ and ¾ ounce per pound of body weight per day (a 150 pound man would drink between 75 and 112 ounces per day).

    Thirdly, if a person takes certain herbal and/or homeopathic remedies to aid the detoxification of the ground matrix, lymphatic, liver, kidneys and bowel, then the microbial toxins do not tend to build up in the tissues as much (this is sold as the Heel “Detox Kit”). Homeopathic mistletoe (viscum album 12x or 30 x) is a very good remedy for ground matrix. The herbs Echinacea and/or clevers plus skin brushing and exercise are good for lymphatic support. Hydrangea, watermelon seed and parsley are helpful for kidney support. Dandelion, milk thistle and lipoic acid are helpful for liver support. Also each person should have at least one large bowel movement per day by using sufficient magnesium malate, fiber such as psyllium and, if necessary, herbal laxatives like cascara sagrada.

    Fourthly, algae, grasses and fiber (chlorella, barley grass, and psyllium, or slippery elm) help to bind the microbial toxins to carry them out of the body.*


    There is a green and herb tea mix as well, which can help the body detox, you can change some of the ingredients according to what you most want to achieve -

    4 bags decaf green tea (antioxidant, detoxifiers, blood cleansers, energy booster. Contains chlorophyll, minerals, and enzymes).

    2 bags dandelion root tea (reduces swelling and fluid build up. Cleans blood and liver and is used as a diuretic. Reduces serum cholesterol and uric acid. Improves kidney, pancreas, spleen and stomach functions).

    2 bags red clover tea (good for weakened immune systems. Acts as a natural antibiotic, blood purifier, and relaxant. Good for skin diseases, liver disorders, and kidney problems)

    2 bags Pao D'Arco (Pau d’arco- contains a natural antibacterial agent. It cleanses the blood
    and is good for candidasis and all types of infection).

    2 bags peppermint tea (stomach settling, enhances digestion. Use for chills, colic, diarrhoea, headaches, nausea, spasms, and poor appetite).

    Bring some water to a boil and steep all of the herbal tea bags in a 4 cup tea pot for about 20 minutes. The long steeping time is helpful to release the constituent ingredients of the herbs. Steep the green tea bags in the same amount of water, but separately for about 5 minutes so the tea isn't too strong.

    Then combine the herbal tea and green tea into a large jar and dilute the mixture with water. You can add 1 or 2 packets of Stevia Plus sweetener. (stevia is not available in the UK, xylitol is a good alternative that has other health benfits too.)

    The original instructions that came with this mixed tea recipe recommended Milk Thistle tincture and liquid Germanium which can be taken separately.
    [This Message was Edited on 12/31/2005]

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