Any othe Leaky Gut Warriors out there?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Frannie17, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. Frannie17

    Frannie17 New Member

    I'd really like to know who else here is a Leaky Gut Warrior like I am starting to be? I'd like to see if anyone wants to keep track of each others progress and cheer each other on. This will be a long hard road for me, esp. the eating part, and I wonder who else has reached the point that they're starting the Leaky Gut War?

    I just started the supplements and diet maybe 2-3 weeks ago; got the Leaky Gut syndrome booklet by Lipski and her other thicker book on digestion; bought many of the supplements mentioned, and plan to get the stool tests so I can hone in the supplements. Anyone else starting along this path? (P.S.: Karen barrowinnovation, are you ever going to write a cookbook or a cook booklet? If so, I'm first in line to buy a copy.)

    Has anyone made any progress? Maybe we can all check in here once a week or something? and let each other know whether any progress? And cheer each other on? Anyone else out there following this plan?

  2. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    That's what I'm doing - going after my gut with all I've got and it's working. Wish I had done this 5 years ago! I could have saved a lot of time, agony, trouble, money and maybe even my job and house. Oh well!

    I am working on an ebook and I'm working on a spot online, too. I have too many answers and they all need to be in one place. Also, I have great ways to make satisfying dishes and meals out of healthy food. Just as satisfying and delicious as regular American junk, but it's going to be more expensive and inconvenient as some of the more exotic things require a dehydrator. And we all know how expensive fresh produce is. But I think it's all worth it. Just think of all the money you'd save from not having to go to the doctor! For now, check into raw food websites. Make things out of veggies, nuts, spices and fruits (as long as you're allowed to eat carbs, if not just stick to the veggies and nuts).

    The fact that we can figure out the gut is the problem and all of our hundreds of doctors can't should be a wake up call to how they operate and how ignorant they are about health. I think it's no less than ridiculous. Crisis management, okay, they're fantastic. But for the chronic diseases, move over and let the real experts take over.

    The medical doctors are just milking us. I remember my liver doctor telling me it couldn't possibly be my food making me feel like I'm dying and I should eat plenty of whole grains. He was allowed to charge me money to recommend poison!

    This fix is not for everybody. Those with no willpower and a weakness for giving in to temptation are going to have to do some serious contemplating. They'll have to choose between their yummy food that they're used to and getting well. There's other yummy foods, but you have to totally relearn food and cooking. It took me a good couple of years to get the hang of it, but that was with trial and error and guessing. I could shorten that drastically for people. I'll be easy to find when it's ready.

    So frannie, what's your diet, foods to avoid, etc?


    [This Message was Edited on 06/28/2008]
  3. Frannie17

    Frannie17 New Member

    Hi Karen: I'm glad you answered. I've been reading your posts and they inspired me to begin my War on Leaky Gut, knowing that you and a few others are having some success with it.
    Many years ago I started with Dr. Leon Chaitow's book "Candida Albicans" and I still have my old yellowed stained 1987 copy. I'd actually started cooking that way and got pretty good at it. But over the years it became "easier" to just cook plain old regular American foods so that I wouldn't have to make two separate meals - one for me and then one for my family. I can't even blame my husband for my quitting, because he LIKED the food I cooked. So cancel that statement - it was just my plain old laziness that got me out of cooking that way. But there's SO much more and better info out there right now on this whole syndrome - the tests, the cooking and the supplements.
    Now I'm sicker with fibro than I was then that I hit the desperation point and I'v getting myself on the bandwagon and getting with the program again.
    My problem is that I don't like to cook. But I'm going to have to suck it up because if I don't, I won't be doing anything else anyway, so why not cook!
    That's why I hope you and I and others on this board can stay in touch and maybe meet here once a week to share our progress and tips as we go.
    I got my huge box of supplements a couple weeks ago. Now I'm reading about the testing companies and will select which one I want to do the stool tests. I started on the diet but realized how limited my selections have been so I've got to get more variety into it (that's why I'm hoping you start a website or cook booklet). I know what you mean that once you start cooking this way, it's YUMMY. I feel like I can start to taste my food more and rather than just pack my face, I want to shout, HEY, this is really delicious!
    So Karen, I hope you and I and others can please stay in touch here on this board and maybe get a Sunday night "progress check" thing going. So far no one else besides you has answered this post, but I noticed that right after I posted it, it got knocked far down on the page due to other postings. I know there are other people here doing this because I've read their posts. I just hope they answer.

    Fight the good fight against Leaky Guts!!
  4. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    I'll keep my eye on here. For some food tips, check out the "barrowinnovations how are you feeling" thread. I just posted a bunch of food tips on there that you may find helpful. It's really simple stuff now, it seems, but I had to learn it.

    It's hard to get people on the healthy food bandwagon. For one thing, most of the stuff we thought was healthy really isn't. So first, we have to relearn what healthy really is. And it's fresh food, right out of the ground minus grains. Raw nuts and seeds should be soaked and sprouted to make them more digestible. It's not much trouble, but it is while you're learning to do it. I've read too many bad things about grains to make them part of my diet. They are just yummy food, nothing more.

    Even the whole grain thing regarding wheat or brown rice - when you examine the ingredients of the grains themselves, you can see how it isn't something we should be eating regularly. Maybe we can save them for special occasions, but it's better to avoid them.

    But just think of it as schooling. You have to relearn food and food preparation. I've had to throw away a few bowls full of stinky nuts before I got it right. For one thing, I learned that sunflower seeds should be soaked in the fridge or they get stinky pretty fast! Then you make crackers out of them and veggies and spices with your dehydrator. You can make all kinds of cookies and treats, too, with a dehydrator and nuts and fruits. You will also need a blender.

    talk to you later

  5. Frannie17

    Frannie17 New Member

    Hi Karen: First thing tomorrow I'll look up your post and check out your recipes (too tired to do right now). I'll try to bump this post up a notch to see if we can get more people interested.

    The crackers sound delish! We have a health food store 30 minutes from here and I'm planning a trip there to stock up on supplements and also see if they have a small food dehydrator.

    As per usual when one gets conscious of eating the right foods to get healthy and combat a leaky gut, an opportunity came up today to eat regular old pancakes. It was almost a physical wrench when I had to say "no". I can see (definitely) why it's so hard to start this program. One thing that keeps me going is that I remember how good REAL food like green beans used to taste and I want it to taste that way again. The only way it will is if I clean out and get my taste buds going again. :)

    Talk to you later,
  6. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Yeah, an iHop pancake would be nice. But it would probably be like crack cocaine - a really great rush but definitely not worth the aftermath.

    But you give up too easily! You can buy pancake batter mix made with almond flour. And then you use eggs and almond milk to make them. Put butter on them, maybe a tad of maple syrup (when you're allowed to have some sugar), and they're delicious! Even without the syrup! I had them a long time ago. They were even better than Aunt Jemimah! Start looking to nuts for substitutions. Once you get good at it, there's no end to what you can make. More expensive than regular junk food products, but guilt free eating!
  7. sorekitty

    sorekitty New Member

    Hi there,
    I saw a new dr and am testing for Lyme. He also is having me do a stool and saliva analysis. I will get the results within a month.

    I got a bread maker a while back and haven't used it yet. There is a really good book on making gluten free breads I want to try. My naturopath said even if you can cut out some gluten it would be a good thing because there is so much gluten in today's diet.

    I am like you Frannie. Not only do I not like to cook I don't like to grocery shop either! Should be very difficult for me. I am thinking of shopping at the farmer's market to save money on the fruits and veges.

    It may be a while before I find out the diet my dr wants me on. That rotational diet scares the he** out of me. If things are too hard I just don't eat and end up losing too much weight.

    Once my son starts first grade he will be in school full day for the first time. Maybe I will be able to do this, huh?

    I already know I don't digest proteins and carbs have improved through my naturopath. Can't wait to get my test results back.

  8. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic New Member

    I've been at this for awhile, but was curious as to what supplements you're taking.

    I've only tackled the dietary side of all of this. So far, it's helped tremendously, but I'm always up to learning more.

    It's good to see digestive healing threads on this board.


  9. tooks

    tooks Member


    I've been following your posts and actually took with tests with Dr. Farr. I'll have a consult soon. Question: I imagine, (hope) he'll order some of the Genova tests like the stool analysis (I know, it's awful!), and MAP and maybe others. After you took whatever tests he prescribed, did you feel he was knowledgeable in interpreting them and putting a plan in place? I don't know if you took the MAP with him, but I would like to, and that in particular I wonder how he was in reading it.

    Also, I'm doing Rich's simplified protocol--did you discuss that with him and was he open to it and to working with you on it?

    Lotsa questions, but maybe you've got lots answers.

  10. Frannie17

    Frannie17 New Member

    Those almond pancakes sound yummy! I think that will be one of the first things I try. I'm putting almond flour and almond meal on my long list of stuff to buy at the health food store, hopefully next week.

    The farmer's markets are great places to frequent. We have a tiny one in our town only open Saturdays, but better than not having one.
    It is a problem about not liking to cook or shop, I hear ya. I guess what spurs me on is that I remember when I cooked healthy (years ago), after awhile cooking that way got sort of automatic for me - I had a few favorites that I got really fast at making and I used them over and over. I don't mind repetitive meals if I like the food I'll eat it over and over again.

    I just followed the leaky gut booklet by Lipski for the supplements. I think the booklet cost under $5, I ordered it on Amazon and the shipping wasn't too bad either, I think the whole total was under $10 with shipping. I haven't had the stool or saliva tests yet so I'm just winging it on supplements. When I have those tests I can pinpoint just the supplements I need.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/29/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 06/29/2008]
  11. annade

    annade New Member


    I just finished a post "Update with Dr. Gersten in San Diego" and it has all me recent test results from him. You can read it and see what tests I had, the results and the supplements I will be starting next week.

    It was discovered that I too have leaky gut and a significant yeast overgrowth among several other thigs, but those were the biggies, along with active EBV. I will be starting the candida diet (once again) along with Nizoral to help fight the candida.

    I would like to be a part of your discussion group. I am hoping to learn more from others who are doing the same thing or who have been at it for a while and can give advice or offer suggestions. I have also done the candida diet before (1-2 months at a time) but can never stick with it as I crave sugar, carbs, etc.. Really hoping I can get this under control once and for all.

  12. Khalyal

    Khalyal New Member

    I tell you what, I've been stealth-following Karen (barrowinnovations) discussions on digestive health for a while, and she has made a believer out of me. I've only really just started trying to make this lifestyle change, but just the few things I've done so far have made amazing differences.

    So, coming out of the shadows to say THANKS, and I'm still just learning (the hard way) and will be paying close attention!

  13. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Hi tooks,

    what's the MAP test?

    I think he's very knowledgeable. I decided that after my first free consult where I told him my problems and what I had been doing and that I was at a plateau and couldn't seem to progress any further. Everything he said was consistent with what I already knew about cfs and health and so I decided to go with what he said. He sounded pretty confident that he could help me without sounding like that moron on tv that sells stuff - you know, like the Oxy clean and countless other products. He seems to know these tests inside and out and has specific protocols depending on the results. He has a frank, matter of fact way of talking that I really like. And we can do everything by phone and email. He is doing what 20 or so odd doctors couldn't: find out what's really wrong and tell me how to fix it.

    He also had a chance to sell me a couple of other expensive tests because I thought I needed them. I asked him about doing them and he said we didn't need to. He was right, they would have been a waste of money.

    As for the methylation protocol, what I found was that the most helpful substance was the folapro and the intrinsic B12 and I've continued with those. I just stopped the phosphatidyl serine a couple of weeks ago. I told him about the countless other supps I was taking and we went through them one by one and he told me to stop certain ones. He felt his plan was enough, but I've continued with things like the amino acids and minerals that have gotten me through the worst times. I don't think the meth protocol was enough to turn things around for me without addressing the dysbiosis. Now I'm really recovering.


    I can't stand it, I'm going to have to order some almond pancake flour! Now I have a terrible craving for them!

    annade and khalyal

    For a start, check out raw food websites. These guys are into enzymes and keeping the food as healthy as possible. When you see the things you can do with foods that you never thought about on your own, you will not have to get over carb cravings. Look at some raw food recipe books. It's not just salads and stuff, there are intricate dishes and cookies and crackers mostly based in nuts like sunflower seeds and almonds. Once you get the hang of it and just use different things as your basis for cooking, like nuts instead of flour, you can even start creating your own favorites.

    Here are a couple of examples of what I mean by raw food recipes. These are all natural ingredients that are not bad for you. Now the chocolate cake is just an example. Obviously, we need to make sure our gut flora is back to normal before we dump that much sugar in our intestines, but I just wanted to show you the kinds of things available. DO NOT EAT CHOCOLATE CAKE until you fix yourself! And I love this spaghetti, BTW. I use a spiral slicer to make angel hair strands of the zucchini and when you put the sauce on it, it's really like eating spaghetti! But infinitely better for you! What's really weird is I can eat this dish hot or cold and still enjoy it.

    Also, healthy eating is somewhat of an acquired taste. At first, it may taste foreign and strange to you if you're totally used to crappy food, but give it time and I promise your body will start to crave these kinds of things and it will just go "ahhh" when you eat them.

    Spaghetti al Marinara

    Serves 4

    raw diet recipesIngredients


    3 yellow summer squash or zucchini

    Marinara Sauce:

    6 large tomatoes
    5 sun dried tomatoes
    2 garlic cloves
    1/2 bunch fresh basil
    2 tablespoons oregano
    1 tablespoon freshly ground black pepper
    1/4 cup onion, chopped
    1/2 cup cold-pressed olive oil
    1/4 cup lemon juice
    4 dates, pitted
    1 teaspoon himalayan sea salt


    For the pasta: There are several ways to make pasta from a squash. One is using an ordinary (potato) peeler. Peel thin slices of the squash, then with a fork or knife, create thin strands of "pasta".

    Another one is using a fancy, but simple kitchen tool often used in the raw food kitchen and by chefs: a spiralizer. Cut the zucchini in about four pieces and by putting them in the mandolin, you can create beautiful thin angel hair pasta.

    Put the pasta strands in a bowl and sprinkle with a mixture of olive oil and some salt. Set aside.

    For the marinara sauce put all ingredients in a high speed blender and blend until creamy. Add purified water if you feel the consistency is too thick.

    For serving: take off the excess oil of the pasta. Put the pasta on a plate and top with the sauce. You may add additional toppings such as slice olives, chopped tomatoes, onions or basil leafs.


    * This is one of the most flexible raw food recipies. You could serve this pasta with other sauces like a pesto or alfredo sauce. Just replace the marinara sause with a pesto sauce or alfredo sauce.

    * This pasta tastes delicious with "meat balls" made from walnuts.

    * For creamier sauce, I'd like to add a few almonds or some hemp seeds.

    * You can heat up the pasta up to about 118 degrees F if you feel like eating a warmer dish. You can do this by rinsing it with warm water or by leafing it a few minutes in the dehydrator at 50F or oven at 70F.

    raw diet recipes
    * This is one of the best raw food recipies to make in case you also have to cook for not raw family members. You can make them ordinary - or better: whole wheat spelt - pasta and share the sauce and topping.

    * If you or your family members are used to processed ketchup or tomato sauces, you may not think this sauce is sweet and salt enough. (Heinz ketchup is 30% sugar). In this case you may want to add a few more dates or drops stevia and some more salt until your taste buds are adjusted.

    Raw Chocolate Cake

    Serves 10

    ph and weight lossIngredients for the crust:

    1/2 cup cocoa powder
    1/2 cup carob
    1/2 cup finely ground almonds
    1/3 cup agave sirup
    1/4 cup coconut or cacoa butter
    Pinch of sea salt

    For the chocolate filling

    2 cups cocoa powder
    1.5 cups agave sirup
    1 cup coconut or cacao butter
    1 tablespoon Vanilla extract (optional)1 tablespoon Lucuma Powder (optional)1 teaspoon Maca Powder (optional)

    For garnishing:

    Strawberries, raspberries, or oranges for garnishing.


    Combine and mix all ingredients. You can best do this by hand or standing mixer). It should have a dough-like consistency. Press the dough evenly into a 7 inch tart pan. (A removable bottom, a plastic cling wrap lining or one of these new flexible silicon pans are easiest.) Chill in the fridge for at least an hour if you have time.


    Blend all the ingredients in a blender until very smooth. Poor into the cake crust. Put the cake back in the fridge and chill for at least another hour.

    Before serving, decorate the cake with the berries, orange or other nice looking fruit.

    Enjoy, this is the best raw food desert ever!
  14. Frannie17

    Frannie17 New Member

    Wow, those are AWSOME recipes! I wonder if I made the cake without sugar in it if it would taste sort of like a chocolate pancake only w/o the sugar? I might give it a shot sometime. Sprinkle a little stevia and yogurt on top... hmmmm, sounds interesting. I'll have to experiment. That might quench my chocolate craving a little.

    Got a question about the zuccini strands - do you cook the zuccini or leave it raw to make the spaghetti? I got used to eating rice noodles cold with tomatoe salsa on top and a little alfalfa(sp) sprouts and it was one of my favorite recipes. The zuccini sliced into "noodles" sounds like almost the same thing. I'd heard about making fake pasta with thin strand zuccini before but never knew whether it should be cooked or raw. Sounds wonderful :) I'll try shredding it with a fork.

    I can't wait till I get to that point (because I've been there before) when my body starts craving the good foods like the sprouts and zuccini. It's amazing the difference. When I eat junky carbs, I notice that I want to eat more, more, MORE even though I'm stuffed. When I get with the program and eat the healthier foods, I start craving the good foods but I don't feel desperate about it like I did with the carbs. Go figger.

    PS Is the agave syrup the sweetener?

    [This Message was Edited on 06/29/2008]
  15. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    You don't cook the zucchini spaghetti, the main thing is to eat these foods raw so you get all the enzymes in them. It's really delicious and satisfying in a different way than traditional spaghetti. Pasta is so filling, you just eat until you can't eat anymore. This zucchini spaghetti you eat until you're satisfied. I used to use the rice noodles, too, because it was less filling than pasta, but this stuff is much better and much better for you. Try it on your friends and family, but don't tell them what it is at first or they'll probably not like it. Tell them it's a new kind of pasta!

    And yes, agave syrup is to sweeten things. Much better than high fructose corn syrup.
  16. tooks

    tooks Member

    Hi Karen,

    Thanks for your reply. It is a bit of a leap to consult an e-doctor...but if he can do the necessary, why not? MAP is Genova's Metabolic Analysis Profile--organic acids. One of the tests that Rich says tells us lots of things it is good to know--that is if you know how to read it, and it sounds like he would.

    I live in quite a sticks-ville area and getting any doctor to order this kind of test is a stretch. A CBC is about it. In another thread you asked about the Betaine HCL, what my reaction was, why stop, how much I was taking. I was taking one cap of 520 mg. (test & HCL prescribed by an earlier doctor when I lived elsewhere).

    I stopped when I started the Yasko multi as I remember reading a caution about betaine upping the short-cut pathway in the methylation cycle, through betaine hydroxymethyltransferase, too much. I am about 6 months into the Simplified protocol and I'm sure the methylation isn't yet straightened out, so this was my thinking.

    I'll let you know how it goes with Dr. Farr.

    Thanks for being a pioneer here!
  17. annade

    annade New Member

    Last year I was eating about 80% raw (following many of the recipes in Alissa Cohen's book Living on Live Food). I felt great initially, amybe for the first month and then I began feeling like my body was missing something as I was feeling more tired and not as energetic as I had. I started to slowly incorporate meat, because I thought that would help and sure enough I did feel more energetic.

    Well now that I know I have a protein deficiency (per recent metabolic testing) I will be adding whey protein to my daily diet. I pulled the Living on Live Food book out last night and am going to start making some of the recipes and reintroducing more raw food. I do think it is the way to go as long as I can give my body what it needs. Yes, I am a work in progress but feel like I am finding out where my imbalances are so I can get what I need out of my food and supplements.

    Thanks for all the info.
  18. Catseye

    Catseye Member


    I did a organic acid metabolic test over a year ago. It told me what I was low on and I upped those supplements. I think Dr. Farr would know how to interpret the results of the MAP thing. I guess I just knew it by a different name. I wish I had known about the stool test and him back then.


    I like the raw food stuff, but not exclusively - only for some veggies and things like nuts and seeds. I can't live without chicken, specifically. I've tried. I just do better with chicken at every meal. I'm the only one I know who has chicken with my egg for breakfast.
  19. Frannie17

    Frannie17 New Member

    Well, I got the zuccini so I'm going to try the zuccini spaghetti. Can't wait, it sounds delish.

    Does anyone know anything about "when" to take supplements? I'm just guessing, but it would seem like it might be a good idea for me to take the probiotics at night... so that all that good stuff can take hold in an empty stomach? So far I've been eating a big spoonful of plain yogurt, the kind with lots of the good probiotics in it, at night just before I go to bed on an empty stomach. Sounds like a good idea? Am I right? Then it would seem like the vits that help the good probiotics, like B-12, should be taken then too?

    I know that I suggested that leaky gut warriors post on Sunday nights, but I wanted to keep this post up there, not buried on the last page, so maybe we should make a comment or two from time to time.

    Fight on,
  20. annade

    annade New Member


    I new CFIDS doctor just put me on 23, yes 23 different supplements. We are starting out very slowly, three things to begin with. SOmewhere down the list is the probiotic (UltraFlora DF) which can be ordered from the Montiff company. Anyway, I looked at the supplement schedule he has me on and it lookes like I am supposed to take the probiotic three times a day, once with each meal. Not sure why I am taking them like this but I figure he knows what he's doing so I will follow it. Will ask him why though at my next appointment.


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