Atlas PROfilax (Attn: Waynesrhythm)

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by poolguy, May 19, 2011.

  1. poolguy

    poolguy New Member

    Hello all! New to the board...

    I was in a severe car accident when I was 7 and as a result have experienced increased neck and back pain as I have grown older. I have seen NUCCA chiropractors as well as Atlas-Orthogonal chiropractors for years with mixed results. While my results from NUCCA treatments were generally more pronounced than the Atlas-Orthogonal treatments I grew tired of spending money (which I don't have a lot of) on both as sometimes I would get a "good" treatment and other times I would feel no difference whatsoever...

    In my search for a new treatment in the past few months I came across the AtlasPROfilax on the internet, and that eventually led me to many discussions on this board.

    I've read a lot of great things about a Michael Hane, courtesy of Waynesrhythm: Thanks Wayne! However, most of the posts seem to be several years old and the links to his website no longer work and I can't find any information on the web about him or his office!!!

    Wayne, you seem to have known Michael pretty well. Did he retire or does he still perform AtlasPROfilax treatments and if so, do you have any contact information for him? If he did retire, do you know of any other AtlasPROfilax doctors that still practice in the California-Arizona area?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!

    My Best!

    Rob
  2. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Rob,

    Good to hear from you. It sounds like we have some similarities in our histories as far as our experience with NUCCA and atlas orthogonal. Yes, they gave some relief, but didn't really get to the core of our problem. The good news is that Michael is still doing the AtlasPROfilax (AP). He stopped here in southern Oregon about a month ago to do the AP for my neighbor. My neighbor had contacted him after I told him how much benefit I had gotten from it.

    The first time I saw my neighbor after his AP, he was delighted with the results. He said he normally had a hard time getting to sleep at night, often didn't sleep well, and then had a hard time getting up in the morning. After the AP, he said he now gets sleepy at night, sleeps well, and wakes up feeling refreshed. Quite a remarkable testimonial! He too had done Chiropractic for years with limited success.

    After seeing your post, I called Michael to make sure he was still practicing, and how he preferred I let you know his contact information. He recommended you go to the website at atlasprofilax.com, and click on his contact information. Here's a direct link:

    http://www.atlasprofilax.ch/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=221&sobi2Id=215&Itemid=57&lang=en

    Michael's father lives in Southern California, so if this is closer to where you are, it might be worth considering going to see him. If you check out the directory, I believe there's a practitioner in San Diego as well.

    Here's a link to the complete listing on the atlasprofilax.com website:

    http://www.atlasprofilax.ch/index.php?field_country=US&search=Search&searchphrase=any&option=com_sobi2&sobiCid=0&sobi2Task=search&reset=2&Itemid=63

    I might just mention that Brian Elijah in Bloomington, MN is the only Chiropractor amongst this group. This might be an important consideration for those who would feel more comfortable having this done by someone with a DC license. I had a chance to meet him when I felt my atlas needed to be checked again (free of charge). It turns out it was my second vertebra (I believe called the axis) that needed to be adjusted (which he did at no charge, even though he was not obligated to do so).

    Dr. Elijah mentioned something very interesting to me. He said that when he goes to ongoing Chiropractic training (necessary to keep his license), he often has to restrain himself at these events to not stand up and say that much of this is all wrong. He doesn't however, because he knows they are just not ready to make such a shift at this time. But he feels it will eventually happen. So he's biding his time until the profession is ready to review some of their "doctrine".

    I hope this happens soon, as I personally feel AP is something that could help many people, with all sorts of health conditions. It's just so hard to heal from anything when a major stressor such as a seriously misaligned atlas continues to weigh a person down. If the chiropractic profession would come on board with this, then AP could become accessible to many more people and would also likely be covered by their regular insurance.

    Good luck as you go forward with your pursuit of better health. Everybody's reaction to AP is different, but it certainly seems you're a good candidate for some significant improvements. Just know that it may not happen all at once; benefits often accrue over the following months.

    Best Regards, Wayne[This Message was Edited on 05/21/2011]
  3. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Just wanted to mention: I believe a misaligned atlas was a contributing factor in my developing ME/CFS. It's clear to me the severe whiplash I experienced as a teenager shifted my atlas and "crimped" at least some of the 12 major cranial nerves which exit the brainstem and make their way through the atlas. At least some of these nerves are connected to digestion and immmune system issues, issues that are so prevalent in ME/CFS.

    Correcting this situation after 40 years did not miraculously help me recover from ME/CFS, but it did significantly reduce many of my symptoms. The AP however, doesn't have the ability to eradicate Lyme bacteria, mycoplasmas, or any number of other opportunistic infections we deal with, although it may help us better deal with these kinds of infections.

    For anybody interested in reading further on my experiences, I would recommend this link:

    http://www.prohealth.com/me-cfs/blog/boardDetail.cfm?id=1226021

    The thread is entitled, "Cranial Nerves - Vagus Nerve - Digestion - Atlas Profilax". Toward the end, I give a pretty comprehensive list of the improvements I noticed after doing the AP and relieving most of the pressure on my cranial nerves. Anybody else notice a constant, unrelenting pressure in their neck area? If so, it's possible it could be a result of a misaligned atlas.

    Best, Wayne[This Message was Edited on 05/21/2011]
  4. herbqueen

    herbqueen New Member

    I don't want to be negative but the Atlas profilax session did nothing for me...................and it was way overpriced in my opinion for the session I had.
  5. poolguy

    poolguy New Member

    Hello Wayne,

    Thank you so much for looking into this for me! I am glad to hear that Michael is still doing the AtlasPROfilax (AP) treatments.

    I had actually visited the main AtlasPROfilax website to look for Michael's contact information before my first post here on this board, however, I only saw his phone number... no address. Since most of the other AP practitioners had additional contact information, I thought that perhaps Michael had moved and forgotten to update his information. Glad I was wrong!

    I also pieced together that Michael's father was an AP practitioner, although I wasn't 100% sure of his relation to Michael and if it was the same "Theodore Haene" found on the main AtlasPROfilax website due to the multitude of spelling variations of their last name I've come across on the internet!

    Based on my own musings and "armchair" understanding of the cervical vertebrae and cranial nerves, I do believe that the AtlasPROfilax method of adjusting the atlas vertebrae will gain recognition and become more accepted as a method of treatment as time passes. The premise for the treatment is the same as that of other upper cervical treatments: to re-align the Atlas. Presently, most of the opposition to this treatment seems to stem from those in the chiropractic community who bemoan the lack of scientific trials backing the procedure. I have also read articles where Doctors of Chiropractic denounce the treatment because x-rays and calculations are not taken prior to the adjustment. They affirm that if no x-rays are taken before the adjustment, how do they know where to apply the pressure? They also seem quite concerned about how much pressure is used to realign the atlas itself.

    As an engineer, I am no stranger to calculations and feel that they have their place in many applications. In fact, that was one of the reasons why I was drawn to NUCCA treatments in the first place. They take an x-ray, and then based on the position of the mis-aligned atlas, use geometry to calculate the proper angle with which to apply force to the transverse process in order to re-align the atlas. In theory, it seemed to me the procedure should work; however, after almost 2 years of treatments and multiple before and after x-rays followed by the DOC remarking "huh, why didn't it move?" I began to pursue other forms of treatment. This led me to the Atlas-Orthogonal method of treatment.

    As with the NUCCA method, before and after x-rays were taken, however, instead of using the side of their hand (as the NUCCA doctors use) they use a machine that uses a soundwave to gently "tap" the transverse process of the atlas. Once again, after several years of "taps" and before and after x-rays showing that my atlas hadn't moved, I decided to look for another treatment.

    As a disclaimer, I would like to say that I'm sure that NUCCA and AO treatments do provide relief to some patients. In fact, I know several who swear by them. I think a lot of it has to do with how long the atlas has been mis-aligned and the severity of the injury that caused the mis-alignment in the first place. In my case, I'm fairly certain my atlas was mis-aligned as a result of a severe car accident that happened decades ago... Based on my experience with both of the above treatments, it is my opinion that neither provide enough "oomph" (non-scientific term) to rotate my atlas back into its original position after all these years.

    Now I will attempt to answer a question I discussed earlier regarding Chiropractors dismissing AtlasPROfilax treatments as dangerous due to the lack of x-rays and analysis performed before the procedure. There were instances when being treated by both NUCCA DOC's and AO DOC's where I hadn't been in to see them in 3, 4 or even 7 months, where they walked me in, sat me on the table, and adjusted me without any analysis or x-rays. Where are DOC's crying foul over this? Neither doctor ever took an x-ray of my back before adjusting it or my shoulder. On a similar albeit different scale, I don't need an x-ray to tell me how and where to "pop" my own back after a long day at work. All I need is my trusty office roller chair... I can say the same thing about "popping" or "cracking" my knuckles. In truth, I hardly ever do this but I don't need an x-ray to tell me how to do this, just the proper amount of force. Along those same lines, I can say with certainty that gently tapping or gently "coercing" has never worked when self-adjusting my back or knuckles...

    Based on what I've heard from multiple Doctors of Chiropractic and from my own experiences, I've come to think of my atlas as more or less a joint that needs to be, for lack of a better word, "popped" after being out of place for several decades. Gently tapping and trying to very gently coerce it back into place using NUCCA and AO techniques hasn't been enough to sustain the type of correction that lasts. I understand that the C1 is a very delicate area due to the nerves surrounding it, and agree that care and discretion needs to be used when adjusting it; however, I do not think that it needs to be handled with kids gloves as so many advocate. I also think the body is much more resilient than we give it credit for!

    Kind Regards,

    Rob



    [This Message was Edited on 05/24/2011]
    [This Message was Edited on 05/24/2011]
  6. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    RE: "Based on what I've heard from multiple Doctors of Chiropractic and from my own experiences, I've come to think of my atlas as more or less a joint that needs to be, for lack of a better word, "popped" after being out of place for several decades. Gently tapping and trying to very gently coerce it back into place using NUCCA and AO techniques hasn't been enough to sustain the type of correction that lasts."

    Hi Rob,

    Atlas Profilax practitioners prefer to use the word "repositioning" the atlas when referring to what they actually do. Michael explained to me that repositioning the atlas is somewhat akin to moving a boulder. Not particularly easy to "position" into place, but once it's done, it's fairly difficult for it to move back out of place. Apparently, this is totally different from a chiropractic technique, which sort of manipulates/adjusts certain vertebrae, but in the case of the atlas, never repositions it. Thus, there's an an easy tendency for a chiropractic atlas adjustment to not hold, because the atlas stays in it's misaligned position.

    Use the word "pop" to describe this repositioning doesn't sound particularly accurate. I would describe as follows: A small vibrating tool with a soft felt cover is gently pressed up against the atlas. It normally takes a few minutes of methodical vibrating and gentle pressure to finally allow the atlas (and associated ligaments) to "let go" of their chronic position. Michael says it's become quite easy for him to detect when this "letting go" occurs and the atlas slides back into place.

    I wanted to emphasize this point because I feel the AP repositioning is actually far safer than traditional chiropractic "popping" techniques, and much more effective than the gentle NUCCA techniques. I guess these techniques do work well for some, but they were both relatively ineffective for me.

    Herbqueen, you mention the AP didn't work for you, and that you felt it was overly expensive. Sorry to hear you didn't get the results you were looking for. I went into it realizing it may do nothing for me either, but felt the risk of not trying it was far greater than the risk of paying $250 for something that may very well help me.

    Over a period of several decades, I spent many thousands of dollars for various kinds of chiropractic and physical therapy. The AP ended up doing far more for me than all this other care put together. So in my case, the one-time fee of $250 feels like a relative bargain price. Rob, I hope you'll report back if you do end up having this done. Given the circumstances you describe, I think the risk/reward ratio is heavily tilted toward the reward side.

    Best Regards, Wayne[This Message was Edited on 05/24/2011]
  7. herbqueen

    herbqueen New Member

    I agree- try it- it might work for you. I'm pretty much open to anything and it was a drop in the bucket compared to the 24K I spent last year of western tests/naturopaths/lyme docs/homeopath/etc during my neurolgical attack. So much for my retirement account! I've heard healing stories from everything-so my motto is keep searching and be open.
  8. sascha

    sascha Member

    with chiropractor who uses thermal imaging.

    i had had two Atlas Profilax adjustments previously, and neither one held.

    for years i experienced a lot of pain up my neck and into my head. last October i met someone who had had similar symptoms and she recommended a chiropractor who helped her. thus i started working with him. he did thermal imaging scans and x-rays initially to find problem areas. the Atlas was one.

    first treatment he put it back in place manually with me kneeling on floor and my head turned sideways on a bench. it stayed in for some time and i experienced big change in range of movement. then it went out to some degree. he puts it back in place and needs to use much less force.

    it is improving. personally speaking i don't think this is a one-shot deal. maybe for some people. definitely not for me.

    the reason i am now encouraged and motivated to continue with this chiropractor is that i KNOW it's better my head and neck pain are greatly relieved. also cfids aspects lightening. i must be doing something right! this chiropractor working on my Atlas is one of them. he is located south of San Francisco- >Dr. Armalu-

    thanks- sascha