Atlas Profilax Michael Hane

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by exgolfer, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. exgolfer

    exgolfer New Member

    Michael Hane treated 13 people at my home in Central CA yesterday. Three people had FMS. I was checked and my C1 was still in. My good friend had the atlas treatment done the same time I did, 15 months ago. She was making progress for about 6 months and then fibro symptoms began to return. Michael checked her atlas and it was slightly out he used the atlas profilax, hopefully she will start to improve again. He says a few people will have this procedure and later it may slip slightly. It was a very interesting day having Michael here. Some people after having the treatment had relief from pain immediately others had much better range of motion with their neck. I am still doing great and am forever grateful for stumbling across this alternative but safe treatment.
  2. mujuer

    mujuer New Member

    I have seen several post here regarding this. After I recup. from back surgery, I think I will check with our local chiro and see if he does this procedure. I would surely love to have more range of motion in my neck. P
  3. exgolfer

    exgolfer New Member

    Jam338, Michael Hane charges $250 for the Atlas Profilax treatment. I think he charges the same at his office in Nevada City. It really wasn't a group event at my home, everyone had an appointment scheduled 45 minutes apart. Some people lingered longer to visit with each other, most of us knew each other and it was interesting to compare how we responded to the treatment.

  4. exgolfer

    exgolfer New Member

    Ria, When I had the atlas profilax treatment there were only 3 practitioners in US who were certified now there are several more. It is a one time treatment for $250 if you want to get checked anytime thereafter there is no charge. When I first had FMS/CFS symptoms 6 1/2 years ago it started after a bad flu. I was tested for EBV and it was extremely high. I never thought it could be a structural problem until I was being treated with myofascial treatment and was told to relax my neck. When I did my legs and arms and part of my face were going numb. That is when I started researching problems with the atlas (C1). I was checked by several chiropractors and yes my C1 was out of alignment. In fact one chiropractor told me all his fibro patient's C1 were out. He believed that fibro caused the C1 to become misaligned, I believe it is the other way around, the misaligned C1 causes FMS/CFS symptoms. Depending on what Dr. I went to I have been diagnosed CFS and sometimes FMS. Looking back 4 years before I became sick I did have a fall off of a porch and it hurt my back and neck but I never connected the fall to FMS. I had been treated by chiropractors for two years with little improvement. The adjustments could not get my C1 in and if they did get lucky and get it in, it would only be temporary. My C1 has been in now for over 15 months with only one Atlas Profilax treatment. I am going to keep in contact with all the people who had this procedure to see what improvements they have. Hope this answers some of your questions.

  5. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Lena,

    Thanks for your report on Michael coming to your home and doing Atlas Profilax on family members and friends.

    When Michael visited at my home last July, I had a really interesting experience with him being in our house. The first thing I noticed was that he carried a very positive and interesting energy about him. Within a few minutes, I made sort of a mental note about it being an "energy of alignment".

    When a friend showed up for the first appointment, I went to another room while they were in a separate room. Within minutes, I felt I noticed this "energy of alignment" sort of rush into the house. It was so noticable, I called my partner at work to let her know what was happening on the home front.

    Later on that evening, a friend, who is very sensitive to energies, walked in the house and immediately said something like, "Wow, lots of healing energy in this house!"

    There's more to this account, but the bottom line is that I feel there is a special and unique energy involved with this Atlas Profilax treatment. And Michael, being so in tune with this, carries this energy with him wherever he goes. I sort of felt like a had met a man who was truly in touch with his mission.

    Hi Ria,

    I posted fairly extensively on my own Atlas Profilax experience on a thread entitled <a href="">Atlas Profilax Worked / is Working Very Well for Me</a>.

    There's a lot of information there, but the main thing I would like readers here to understand is that this unlike any Chiropractic care I have ever done, and far more effective. And for me, like Lena and approximately 90% of other people getting this done, it is a one-time treatment. Any future checkups or needed treatments are done at no cost. So there is only a one-time cost.

    Best to you if you choose to pursue this.

    Regards, Wayne
    [This Message was Edited on 02/02/2008]
  6. digiconnex

    digiconnex New Member

    Hi everyone! I think I am very much interested in this Atlas Profilax technique. However, I have some concerns. For example how does the practioner make the C1 alignment? Does he use a tool or just his hands? Does it cause any pain? I think upper Cervical Chiropractor technique uses a tool. If anyone can please inform me I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
  7. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Digiconnex,

    If you look at the post above, I provided a link to a thread where I posted extensively on my Atlas Profilax experience. I created five sections in this post, and will paste the section on how the Atlas is aligned below.

    In case you're interested, Michael Hane has just completed a website describing his work with Atlas Profilax. Perhaps just browsing his website will give you a greater sense of how much of a priority you might want to make this for yourself. You can get there by clicking <a href="">here</a>.

    Welcome to the board. Best to you if you decide to pursue this.

    Regards, Wayne

    II. Description of Tool and How It's Used in the Treatment

    The tool used in this technique looks somewhat like an oversized electric toothbrush. It's a bit longer and sturdier, and instead of having a brush on the end, it has a flat circular shaped ending about the size of a dime. This is covered with felt to soften the effect when it's placed up against the Atlas.

    An Atlas Profilax practitioner seems to only have to check your neck area with his hands to determine whether the Atlas is out of place or not. I would suspect that in the world of MRIs and X-Rays, they probably wouldn't have a clue as to whether the Atlas was misaligned or not, even if it did show up on a scan. Michael Hane used various subtle diagnostic techniques during and afterward to check on the status of the Atlas and accuracy of the adjustment.

    In my case, the Atlas on the left side was tipped up, so the right side was tipped down. There apparently was some kind of torque involved as well. These areas correspond to the areas right behind the lower ear where the Atlas extends out to. So, in my case, and I believe in all cases, the Atlas is adjusted (while the patient is sitting) by putting pressure on these two areas behind the ear, far away from the center of the neck vertebrae and spinal cord.

    The adjustment on the left side lasted approximately 20-30 seconds. I felt a moderate amount of pressure and pain during this adjustment. The adjustment on the right side was a bit more problematic. I experienced a bit more pressure and pain, and initially lasted about 30 seconds or so. After checking out the results, we had to move the Atlas just a bit further on the right side, so had another 15 seconds of so of pain and pressure.

    This machine was described above as "pulsating" at a certain frequency. I would describe it as a light massaging/vibrating sort of feeling. The actual pressure applied made the pulsating mostly undetectable. It may help relax muscles in the area, but the actual benefits of this technique result from the actual movement of the Atlas into proper alignment.

    This technique strikes me as very, very safe. The practitioner cradles the head during the time the pressure is being applied, so there is never any kind of whiplash motion of any kind. In fact, it's so gentle and subtle, it's almost (initially) hard to notice that anything has happened.

    "As another poster mentioned recently in What Worked for Me, "I thought I wouldn't be able to 'take' it given the sensitivity of my C1 joint (the Atlas), but it was so gentle it was, well, underwhelming. Didn't think anything even happened."

    A good friend of mine who has a serious carotid artery problem was told emphatically to never have her neck adjusted. She decided to come over and observe the procedure being done so she could determine whether she should consider it or not. Upon seeing how simple and safe it was, (no manipulating or cracking, etc.), she was very comfortable in deciding to have it done. She's been very pleased with the results.
    [This Message was Edited on 04/09/2008]
  8. cct

    cct Member

    I clicked on your "here" to get to Michael's new website. Thanks for the link. It was good to see Michael's face again!

  9. digiconnex

    digiconnex New Member

    Thanks for your info...
  10. exgolfer

    exgolfer New Member

    Digiconnex, the Atlas Profilax treatment is not painfull especially if Michael Hane is the practitioner. Two fibro patients that Micahel treated in January at my home have told me they have had improvements. One lady said her anxiety and depression were gone and her sleep has improved and also the brain fog has improved. Her sister had neck problems and the pain is gone and also her nausea and dizziness is gone. My good friend who has fibro and was treated 17 months ago with the Atlas Profilax and was treated in January is now feeling good. I am doing very well and consider myself recovered. I highly recommend this treatment. Good luck.
  11. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    The closest I can find where I live is called Atlas Orthospinology and uses something called a "Laney Instrument", which looks like a drill, and hurts just a little bit when used (it leaves a soreness).

    My TCM doc has been pushing me to go have this done for over a year, saying she's seen miracles with this tx in those dx'd with Fibro, esp. if they had a head/neck injury, like I did.

    I was and am skeptical, since I clearly have Lyme Disease as a cause of my fibro, with 3 of the classic rashes and a Herx reaction to the tx to prove it.

    However, in only one session, my neck turned four inches further than before. After 2 sessions, I gained another 2 inches, so it clearly does something.

    The Chiro says almost 20% of the messages to and from my brain to my body are not getting through, and that fixing this may restore communication to my immune system, helping it to get rid of Lyme. This has given me some hope, though after 22 yrs. of trying everything I could find,I am afraid to hope again.

    The problem with this is it requires 3 sessions per week at first, and then slowly goes down. Each session costs $40. However most people do not need nearly as many sessions as she says I will.

    The reason I need so many sessions is that the x-rays show I have a 17 degree misalignment of my Atlas to the right,most likely caused by a major head injury I had 13 mos. before I became ill. There are also some white patches on my brain, so that she sent the x-rays to a radiologist to read, just to make sure they are not serious. A 17 degree abnormality is so rare, the Chiro says she sees between 12,000-14,000 patients per year and never sees anything nearly as bad as mine.

    I envy you the cost and ease of your Profilax. I am hoping to see a useful improvement after one month, or I may stop due to the cost.

    By "useful", I mean that being able to turn my head further does not help me function in life. I could already turn it enough to get through the day.

    I would love to see a change in my ability to handle over stimulation, for example, so that I could drive myself to the Chiro. Right now, my DH has to miss work without pay to drive me to each of my sessions, a real shame, since a session only takes 5 minutes. Any change in one of the symptoms that limits my life would be enough to keep me going.

  12. matthewson

    matthewson New Member

    Scroll down to Michael Hanes. Is this why he does these adjustments in people's houses? Doesn't sound like he is a chiropractor. I think I would be leery of this person.

    Take care, Sally
  13. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Klutzo,

    Thanks for sharing your experience with Alas Orhospinology. It sounds like it falls in the category of "upper cervical chiropractic".

    I used to get very good relief from an upper cervical chiropractic technique called "orthogonal chiropractic". Like Atlas Orthospinology, it require ongoing adjustments to retain the benefits.

    What I like about Atlas Profilax, which is not chiropractic, is that it is a one-time therapy. The following is from Michael Hane's website (where he never claims to be a Chiropractor), under the heading:

    How is this different from chiropractic work?

    "We massage the tight muscles around the base of the skull and release it. The atlas moves into full location in one session. We do not require more treatment, only a follow up to make sure it stabilized."

    Even though Michael encourages people who get the Atlas Profilax therapy to follow up with various kinds of therapies, including chiropractic, some chiropractors feel threatened by his work.

    There were several chiropractors in the Ashland area who were hearing about Michael's work, and were interested in learning more about it. I know of at least one chiropractor here who decided to have this therapy done.

    Unfortunately, there was apparently a single chiropractor here who viewed Michael's work as a threat to his livelihood, and decided to contact the Oregon Chiropractic Board.

    So this particular chiropractic board did a similar thing to Michael what the AMA did to the chiropractic profession for many decades. They harrassed him and threatend him with legal action unless he signed a cease and desist order.

    Very sad. I received so much benefit from my visit with Michael Hane. I found him to be very talented and an extraordinarily kind and gentle man. He seems to naturally draw on his many years of experience with massage and cranial sacral therapy when doing the Atlas Profilax. I heard from so many others in this fairly small, somewhat rural community who had similar very positive experiences.

    To be restricting this therapy is in the interests of the chiropractic profession, not the public who they would likely say they are trying to protect. I myself am leery of state and governmental licensing and regulating boards. Much of what they do is nothing more than defending their turf.

    Congratulations on the significant improvements you've been getting. It is too bad that it affects you so much financially. With my own orthogonal chiropractic, I finally got to the point where I only needed to go once every 4-6 weeks or so. I no longer need to do that since I did the AP.

    Regards, Wayne
    [This Message was Edited on 04/19/2008]
  14. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Hi Wayne,
    My Chiro explained to me the difference between Atlas Orthogonal and Atlas Orthospinology is that the Orthogonal instrument is attached to the machine, while the Laney instrument used in my procedure is hand held and manipulated by the Chiro. The result is the same. She also mentioned a third way, done with the hands, but said that one must be very, very experienced and "a real artist" to do it that way.

    I can also tell you, from watching the video of Montel Williams getting the Orthogonal treatment, that Orthospinology does not just click the machine once behind your ear, like they do with the Orthogonal treatment. I was clicked many, many times at each session, in a couple of different locations around that area, until I was sore enough to make painful noises. However, this may have had something to do with the unusual severity of my problem, I don't know.

    I find it hard to believe that neck muscle massage could correct a 17 degree Atlas maladjustment like I have, but I can see how it might fix the much smaller degree of misalighment most people have, at least until the next time their posture is poor, they are too stressed, they are magnesium deficient, etc. I would like to understand better how one adjustment can hold forever.

    I have a massage of my neck, shoulders and head once a week, as part of my acupuncture sessions. It is done right after the needle treatment. It is wonderful, but does not move anything. I would love to see a video of what your procedure is like. I am thrilled for your success....just wanting to connect the dots as to how it could work.

    You are certainly correct that a procedure like that, if successful in most cases, would threaten the whole existance of Chiropractic, so they would oppose it with everything they had.

    If Michael Hane is not a Chiro, what are his qualifications? Sorry if you already posted this info...I have a very bad memory from my illness. Is he a Massage Therapist? A Physical therapist? A Cranial-Sacral therapist? (CST got rid of my TMJ permenently, almost ten years ago).

    [This Message was Edited on 04/20/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 04/20/2008]
  15. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I just watched a 30 min. interview with Michael Hane on Conscious Medida Network which answered my questions about his qualifications. He is a CMT, specially trained in Atlas Profilax in Switzerland. If interested in this procedure, I would recommend the video, which can be found by Googling his name.

    He has an interesting metaphysical theory about how humans ended up with such fragile Atlas bones, one that I already believed in as well, but for other reasons. Unfortunately, this belief will cause most people to label him as a total kook. I also suspect he knows very well it is not really just a theory, but he figures it is less scary to us to present it that way.....

    I am clairsentinent, and well before he spoke about his theory, in fact the moment I looked at him, before he said one word, I said to myself: "He is not from here. Now I know why he can do this, and how he leaves such a strong impression of spiritual energy behind".

    I found the nearest trained practitioner to me, and he is a four hour drive east of where I live. Even though I've already dished out the main amt. of cash for the initial consultations and x-rays for Orthospinology, it still may be worth my while to go 4 hrs. away to save both time and money.

    Ironically, I will have to keep up my present treatment long enough to get well enough to handle highway travel again, before attempting it, and I can't even imagine being that well again. We'll see.

    Very interesting "guy"!!! Thanks for telling us about him.

    [This Message was Edited on 04/20/2008]
  16. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Klutzo,

    I’ve actually had the orthogonal technique done by two different practitioners. The first one I went to used the “3rd” way, done with the hands only. The second practitioner used the “machine” which “clicked”, although I think he often did it more than once. Definitely not “many” times however. The results I got from the “hands only” was significantly better than the second. In fact, I found the use of the machine was fairly painful, whereas the hands resulted in no pain whatsoever.

    RE: “I find it hard to believe that neck muscle massage could correct a 17 degree Atlas maladjustment like I have…I would like to understand better how one adjustment can hold forever.”

    *** I’ll try to explain this the best I can, based on my own experience. The vibrating/massaging tool used by the Atlas Profilax practitioner is pressed up against the Atlas at a location right behind the lower part of the ear on each side. While this machine is “massaging”, the practitioner uses a moderate amount of pressure against the Atlas so that when the muscles and ligaments finally “release” their hold, the Atlas has an opportunity to “slide back” into its correct position.

    Regarding how it can hold indefinitely, the following is from an Atlas Profilax website:

    “When a baby is born the two pins that hold the Atlas in its proper place are not fully formed. In Eastern European countries mid-wives are trained to ensure the Atlas of newborns is properly aligned so when the pins grow and harden they do so to hold the Atlas in its proper position.”

    From my perspective, the non-chiropractic Atlas Profilax procedure “appears” to be entirely different from any other chiropractic method I’ve ever heard of, including the upper cervical chiropractic that I feel can be so beneficial. Being entirely different, it “seems” the Atlas Profilax is also able to accomplish something entirely different as well, namely the ability to allow the Atlas to lock into place via the “two pins” that we are all born with.

    I can’t say for sure that the above is entirely accurate, but I suspect it is because of my own experience. I have gone to probably dozens of chiropractors over the past 40 years, received hundreds of adjustment, and tried many different types of techniques, including some that were very helpful. But I never came close to experiencing what I did with Atlas Profilax.

    I believe this is because this technique shifted my Atlas in a way that allowed a huge pressure on some of my major arteries and cranial nerves to be released in a pretty dramatic way. I posted on my AP experience fairly extensively on this <a href="">link</a> and also on a thread I started entitled <a href="">Cranial Nerves - Vagus Nerve - Digestion - Atlas Profilax</a>.

    Something I have not commented on in all my posts on Atlas Profilax, is a bit more of how it felt after this cranial nerve and artery pressure was released. It felt almost as if I suddenly had thousands of little “medical workers” in my neurological system, furiously running around, trying to do 40 years of repair so as to accommodate a new flood of “electrical energy” that was now coming through. The question for me is how much damage was done from this 40 years of intense pressure, and how much of it can be reversed. It feels like I’m still in a “regenerative” healing mode, both positive and sometimes uncomfortable.

    Another friend who had this procedure done made the comment the next day after having this done, “I feel like I’m recovering from surgery, even though I’ve never had surgery and don’t know what it’s supposed to feel like.” She said it in a way that reflected how good she felt about having it done, and how hopeful she was for future improvements.

    I enclosed a lot of my above words in “…..”. The reason is because I cannot speak definitively and scientifically on the above, but can only offer my by best guess as to what or what might not be true. It’s my hope that it may give you some good information that might help you “connect the dots as to how it could work”.

    Regarding Michael, I’ll copy and paste from my above post: “I found him to be very talented and an extraordinarily kind and gentle man. He seems to draw naturally on his many years of experience with massage and cranial sacral therapy when doing the Atlas Profilax.

    I hope some of this helps. Again, congratulations on the improvements you are making. I can’t help but think that having the Atlas Profilax could possibly increase the benefits you are currently receiving from Orthospinology.

    Kind regards, Wayne

    P.S. I had a noticeable improvement in my own TMJ after doing the AP.
    [This Message was Edited on 04/20/2008]
  17. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Thanks for your opinions, Wayne. I have read all of your other threads about your experience.

    I was able to find some pictures of the practitioner who lives near me doing the Profilax procedure in another location, on someone else's web page. His current web page is under construction, however.

    I will see how it goes with what I am doing now before making any decisions. I wish you continued good health.

  18. desertlass

    desertlass New Member

    Thanks for adding in your experiences, Klutzo. All of this helps me when making a decision.

    Something I was thinking about all this, when it comes to the C1--

    I watched the YouTube video of Montel. I can't deal with daytime tv, so yay for YouTube.

    I felt a certain amount of relief just hearing him talk about what the orthagonal method had done for him. I have a friend with MS-like symptoms (a Gulf War vet), and the pain in his legs and feet cause him to shift around as well.

    I think it would be great if Montel would go see Michael Hane, and give us another comparison of the treatments.

    Someone please write to him! :)

    As far as all the different methods go, I think it really depends on the person, and what they respond to.

    My retired osteopath did manipulations, and in her office she also had an accupuncturist, who was a descendant from a long line of Chinese accupuncturists to the royal court (so their was all of that mystique and cache that went along with it), there was a massage therapist and an exercise therapist.

    Her manipulations were indirect muscle energy, meaning that you get the muscle to release and therefore make the adjustment indirectly, rather than directly, by shoving or cracking.

    She said that she felt that they were all using different approaches to accomplish the same things, and they were all affecting the same areas.

    I feel like some of these cranal/spinal/ treatments range from the blunt and crude (some shamans are called "bone-pullers") to the mid-range of chiropractic, up to these precisely focused methods.

    Wayne, I wish there was some way to ask you more about what you think of the "kook" factor. But I don't want to add to people running off from something that could be really helpful.

    I will post again to show what I mean.
  19. amethystorange

    amethystorange New Member

    I had atlas profilax done 6 months ago. Having a history of "atlas out" issues that wasted some $10 K with chiros over the past decade, I was really looking forward to relief, and permanent atlas placement with AP. I wish Michael Hane was closer - I'm in the southeast, can't travel west. I was lucky to find one within driving distance.

    ONe of my issues had become TMJ after a dental procedure. I had desperately hoped AP would help with that, and other chronic neck and back pain. I thought it did at first, as the endorphins really had me going for about a week, but about two weeks after the AP treatment, I started to feel all symptoms gradually return. I was warned that symptoms may resurge and to be patient, so I was. Things then got worse, to intolerable. I felt I had no recourse but to visit an impressive TMJ specialist - a dentist with upper cervical knowledge and experience, and he informed me that my atlas was indeed out. I thought about it... he didn't really have motivation to be dishonest to me about my atlas, like some chiros would be, just for money. And I knew if felt out, but I pushed my patience daily saying "it's just resurgence of symptoms you were warned about".

    But yeah, it's out. Bummer. Big bummer, actually. So my AP treatment didn't hold. Anybody else have this happen?
  20. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Amethystorange,

    I had the Atlas Profilax (AP) done by Michael Hane about two years ago, and found it to be very beneficial. Some things you may not be aware of.

    AP practitioners like to "check" their clients within a few weeks afterward to see if the AP held properly. Michael told me about 10% of people will need another alignment. Of those who do need another one, he said almost all of them don't need another one after that.

    But there can be a lot of variables that can determine whether AP will work for any given person. Michael mentioned that a young boy that he tried to work with just couldn't hold the new alignment, even after three attempts. I believe I remember him mentioning that the boy had had a head injury prior to coming to see him.

    I know a woman who is an avid horseback rider, and she often had her atlas go back out after doing this riding. So she sometimes gets the AP done again, as she's not ready to give up her love of horseback riding.

    I experienced a fall last year that traumatized my back and spinal column, and I've suspected since then that my atlas has gone out again. It seems as long as we wear these human bodies, things can and will go awry. Nothing is perfect, but AP worked far better for me than tons of chiropractic prior to it.

    Any AP "checkups" or follow up care is done without any charge. If you haven't gone back to do this, I would recommend doing so. I wish you the best as you try to resolve this for yourself.

    Best Regards, Wayne

    ETA - I asked Michael Hane if he felt chiropractors know whether an Atlas is in alignment or not. He said that the AP training for determining whether the Atlas is aligned properly appears to use different criteria than what many chiropractors use. He said he has patients be told all the time by their chiropractors that their Atlas is out of alignment (after Michael had adjusted them). I'm mentioning this because I think it would be good to know that an AP practitioner and other health care practitioners often have different viewpoints on this issue. [This Message was Edited on 08/25/2009]