Attn: Patpalmer or any other Olive Leaf Extract user.........

I guess it is a good sign to feel bad...but are theses symptoms of bad critters being killed...I feel like my brain is swollen or too big for my head, someone has kicked me in the side of the head continuously, sinus passages are blocked, nauseous and extreme fatigue... I am drinking lots of water and a "detox cocktail"..If anyone is here taking olive leaf extract, do you take it continuously or pulse it like the ABX..and I am on 18% OLE...and gradually trying to work myself up to higher dosage..
It definitely is making me quite ill...But I wondered if you need to get the Seagate brand or will just any of it do the same...LOL, AMELIA[This Message was Edited on 03/06/2003]

BUMP

I've have read your posts on OLE and know you have tried it, too..I just hope to get over this bad period to get to the other side..if this can cause this much pain...I can't imagine what ABX does..or are we actually killing much more pathogens with OLE???????? I have wondered if nl refers to the Netherlands..would love to visit over there in the Scandanavian countries..have been to Switzerland, part of Germany, part of Italy, but never to the Netherlands..but it is definitely in my plans, if I can ever get over this DD....LOL, AMELIA

I'm following your progress. I started taking large amounts of garlic and am having burning symptoms in my tummy and throat..could this be a detox symptom too? Drink lots of H20 along with your cocktail. I will say a prayer for you too!
Be blessed,
Judy

I have been taking 3 capsules a day of OLE 15% on weekdays. My brain felt like it was swollen for days so I decided to take some methyl B12 to detox it. It worked well for me so now my head is better but my legs, arms & face are burning. I don't take any OLE on weekends and this burning goes away by Mon. I start again Mon. & by the end of the week the burning is again intense. My fevers have been non-existant for a couple of weeks now so I am thinking it has killed off the virus overload but probably continues to fight as they try to make a comeback. Just guessing here. I am going to start some denatured whey protein next week if I am feeling good. I am experimenting to see what works & what kind of reactions I get, etc. The OLE gave me a step up in energy & I noticed the B12 has given me another step up in energy. I have been sleeping more deeply the past couple nights so the B12 taken early day & the ZMA at night seem to be a good combination for me. Crazy what we have to do to feel somewhat good. Whatever it takes huh? Are you already taking B12 sublingually or injections? If not perhaps you would want to experiment with it too. I had a instant reaction the first tablet I put under my tongue made my brain sinuses started crackling like pressure was being relieved. My body is very sensitive to whatever I put in it though good or bad. I am not 100% without that swollen feeling but I would say I'm 90% better after just over a week of B12. Hope this helps ya. Take care. Hope you get some relief. If all else fails skip OLE when your brain feels too swollen and give it a rest. Best to you. CLD

Celticladee has all the answers right there for you. Hi Celticladee too.

If all that is too much right now I can only suggest you stop taking them until you feel much better, then resume but slowly again. Your OLE are a very high dose (must`v cost a fortune)so just start with one every other day then if OK just one a day for several weeks and then maybe two at the very most.
Or do the same as Celticladee and skip weekends - great idea.

You will need to have a short break now and then cos you`r body will get used to it, and you want to catch the little buggers unawares.

Listen to your body and do what`s easier to cope with. It doesn`t have to be done within a certain time limit, you can take months with this. You must`v killed off a load already so give yourself a break. It`s potent stuff.
I`m not as bad as most, so OK, but the worse you are the worse you`ll react.

I have cut down to two a day by Solgar @ 6% and to be honest I think that should be enough. I have more energy but still ache at the moment.

sorry I didn`t see your post earlier, it`s a fight with two children hogging the board in the evening (England and 1 am so off to beddybies now as it`s gone one in the morning.)

Chat again soon,
Lots of love Pat.
[This Message was Edited on 03/06/2003]

You know, I have been thru yeast die-off, but this OLE has pushed my symptoms to new amplified levels...Finally, my brain swelling is subsiding as I drank a lot of water/detox drink..I have had really bad sinus infections that have approached that.. CelticLaddee-Thanks for all the feedback on your experiences..it really helps to know that I am not the only one..I have been on denatured whey protein as one of my detox measures, but I have not noticed a huge difference yet from just it..I have not ever taken the B/12 shots, but it is on my list when I see my doc in the near future..Is the burning sensation a direct side effect? I plan, now, to probably stay off the OLE, tomorrow, and try it every other day until the symptoms are not quite as bad..then, gradually work up from there. I am hopeful that this will really help in future.. PatPalmer, Thanks for the extra inspiration..Actually, this OLE was not very expensive..I just found it in the grocery store the other day and decided to start the process..I had planned to order some of the Seagate brand from San Diego, because it was quoted in that article..Do you know if it really matters which brand one chooses? Apparently, I really reacted to this one..I plan to follow Dr. Cheney's total treatment protocol, just adding one part at a time and I have to go over all of this with my doc, too, to get her on board..Have any of you presented your docs with the 90 page article, "New Insights into the Pathophysiology and Treatment of CFS"? I don't know whether to give her the entire article, which I think really comprehensively covers the subject better than anything before, or just present short segments at a time..I am glad I have started the OLE, but will have to take it slower than original intentions..I really appreciate all of your thoughts and feedback...LOL, AMELIA

I forgot to ask you whether you have tried IMUNOVIR, since it is approved over there, and whether you have gotten from the Ireland manufacturer? That is what I would like to try next, unless my doc puts me on Heparin..But, I have heard that the Imunovir is very effective..What do you think? And the Olive Leaf (18%) at about $9.00 for 400mg for 60 capsules was fairly inexpensive..I have compared it with the Seagate $29.95/shipping for 90 capsules..How much does it cost over there (of,course you have pounds)? Is 18% too high a dosage of the active chemical? Thanks for your help..LOL, AMELIA

I HAVE HAD BURNING SENSATIONS WHEN EATING RAW GARLIC, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT..I have thought I might alternate days eating garlic/Ole and see if that helps, but at this point, I am going to take a day off..this was entirely too intense today..I wonder if the 18% oleupein is too high to start off with, but it was the only choice when I picked it up the other day..I have planned to shop/compare at the health food stores, but I live about 30 miles away from them..and haven't made the trip...

Re: the ZMA- Do you know if you can take each one of the elements, separately, or is it only effective that way? I already take both zinc and magnesium..Also, I forgot to ask how long you have been on the OLE? and if you feel it will really help you in the long term? and what percentage of oleupein is in your supplement? IS THE B/12 as effective with the sublinqual route vs. the injection? Take care and hope your symptoms get less with time, too.. LOL, AMELIA

You must be a massakist(think that`s how spelt)- Certainly made of solid stuff. Well done.

I`ve heard of Imunovir mentioned before, not sure of what it is? Heparin is a natural short lasting anticoagulant, and must not be taken with asprin, also an anticoagulant.
Just read that in my little medicine book.

Your Olive Leaf was a bargain, which brand is it? Sure they had the right price on? It`s a high dose yes but OK if you are able to tolerate it, so you don`t need to have many, it`s like me taking 2 or 3 of mine at once, which are by Solgar £9 for 60 caps 225mg - must be around $14 if my sums are right.
The burning sensation is part of the reaction, the dead critter turn toxic and the immune system is working to shed the poison, so the heat is a sign something is happening.

I don`t think it matters which brand you take, not too many do this product. Only difference is the quality and price, usually higher the % the pricier it gets. But not in your case eh.... jammy git.

Last week I gave my Doctor a load of literature on Mycoplasma, Olive leaf Extract, All about CFS which Jellybelly posted, and some other bits which she was very interested in, saw her again yesterday with my daughter and she hasn`t had time to read it all yet, but promises to do so. I walked in and she said you aren`t going to test me are you? with a look of panic. Bless.

Amelia, I really hope this works for you, it`s going to be a while so please keep us posted, might be a good idea to keep a daily record of your energy levels and what you do in a day. The improvement is so gradual that you don`t realise it`s happening.....
That way you can see it on paper. Ask questions anytime.

lots of love Pat.

Pat, I still have symptoms from yesterday, woke up during the night with a real "bad migraine"..These symptoms are so similar to bad sinus infections I had last year with the other symptoms listed and have added significant pain in the neck area (think that is where some lymph glands are located)..The OLE is just a non-recognizable brand called "Naturally Preferred" out of Cincinnati, OHio..with red clover flower tops and astragalus root...have your symptoms been similar to ones I had? Well, I have got to try to get some work done....Hi Carla, HOpefully, I will be better in future and would love for you to come to the U.S.A., Colorado style... LOL, AMELIA

I've been taking 4 capsules of 150mg, 20% Oleuprin of OLE and, other than feeling really bad the first few days, I have not noticed a thing. Also, it cost me $6.83/60 pills, at Wal-Mart. The brand is Spring Valley.

Hope you guys have better luck.

Also, do you know if OLE might interfere with TSH testing. just wondered, I forgot to mention to my doctor that I was taking this, and she did a blood draw for TSH the other day. She's awaiting the test results from my holter monitor, and the TSH before sending me to an Endocrinologist at IU Med Center. My TSH and T3 were low last time she checked them in Jan 2002. (I assume I will still be hypothyroid, since I'm not on thyroid medication.)

Thanks,

Medic

maybe someone else could answer your questions...I just started this treatment, but don't tell me this h**l won't eventually lead to better outcomes...18% -20% of the oleupein may be too high to begin with, though...it sure feels like it..Did anyone else also have neck achiness after starting this, like in the lymph glands? AMELIA

Hi Pat. Hi Amelia. Hi other OLE users & board members.
I haven't been online since my last post above in this thread. My hubby needed to use the p.c. for hours of dreadful tax computing & also I was busy getting our office work done. Today I had some housework to do as my sis may come up tomorrow and I thought I'd collect the dust bunnies, etc. Trying to pace myself so I don't end up sick in bed. Last night my neck started to bother me and then my ears plugged up and rang for hours. Today my ears feel better but my neck/spine feels like if I turn wrong I will pinch a nerve. I decided not to take OLE today as I am still burning in my arms, legs, face and now my hips. Time to take a break! I will wait until Monday to take anymore OLE.
To answer your question Amelia about OLE. I have taken almost 2 bottles of 60 capsules. So I guess I have been on it about 2 months or so. I don't know what the long term benefits are you see I am new to this like you. I have noted that I have less fevers now. I used to have daily lowgrade fevers averaging around 100.5-101 degrees from virus overload. Also I gained 10-20% energy which is very important to me. I mistakenly said my OLE was 15%. It is actually 20%. It is by Thorne Research and it is powder in a capsule - 60 caps for $20.00. I'm thinking of buying it from Prohealth next time - their's is 15% oleuropein and if you are on the dsp program at the store here you can get it for $8.97 for 60 caps. I think I am probably taking too much each day (3 caps 20% each) so that is why I am burning so badly even with all the water I am drinking. I am cutting back to 2 caps a day next week instead of 3 a day. As far as the ZMA - I have read Madwolf & others say (plus the label says) that ZMA is a synergistic combination of Zinc & Magnesium designed to maximize absorption and promote deep restful sleep. From personal experience I had been taking magnesium, B6 & zinc in my supplements without getting the kind of sleep I get now so I would say there is a big difference. Also I have noted there are some people who take it that get the opposite reaction...meaning it keeps them awake. My healthy hubby can't take it as it does this to him and I read that others on this board have that same reaction. My hubby can't take daily vitamins either because they make him wakeful at night. He can't eat sugar late or he can't sleep. I was always the opposite. I don't eat sugar now but when I was healthy I would eat it in the evening and it made me very sleepy. So it all depends on your system personally how anything relates to you. That is why we are all experimenting trying to figure out what to take to make us feel the best we can under our circumstances. I am also slowly implementing Dr. Cheney's protocol to get better. I don't have access to B12 injections so I am taking methyl B12 sublingually as it is better than nothing. I am sure the injections are much more powerful and also much more expensive & time consuming. I feel that the B12 has given me another 10-15% energy as well as helped my brain feel less swollen. As I said, my next step is using the Immunoplex undenatured whey protein. Phew. I guess I covered everything? If not - I will check back ASAP to see how this thread goes.

My question today is about Lipoic Acid. Dr. C. recommends it as a powerful anti-oxidant and helps protect the brain. My hubby did a brief search and read some controversy on its use. Do any of you take it or know anything about its safety? I would be very interested in what you have to say about it. I will check ASAP to see if you have a response.
Thank you in advance.

You all have helped me in ways I cannot express. Just know that You are special to me. I value our relationship as we fight together to beat this DD. Bless you all. CLD

Because, I guess, my brain was so swollen from the OLE, it spawned way too many migraines afterwards AND I am still really fatigued and wondering when I will get back too pre-OLE CFS..is this normal? These were also some of the worst migraines I have had in a long time..

Great post Celticladee, - thank you,

Planetscaper, I can`t tell you how sorry I am you feel so awful. Please don`t even consider taking any more till you have at least recovered from this awful pain.
I think you took too many at such a high dose far too soon,
So much mycoplasma have died off that you have a lot of toxin in your blood,(equal to being poisoned) that it is now causing the pain and migranes, you poor love, must be hell.
Obviously the immune system is now stretched to full capacity. Did you say you are on supplements?

I hadn`t realised myself just how potent Olive Leaf is, If very ill, I think anyone should only take one every three days to start with, then go from there. Specially you if you decide to try again.
I very much hope you start to feel better soon, post again and let us know how you are.

Praying for you,
Love Pat.

That is more comforting...but I don't understand why my brain was so affected..does mycoplasma produce, in particular, neurotoxicity? and maybe, I should look for less potent OLE to start with...? Oh, yeah, I am on other supplements: Zinc, magnesium, denatured whey protein, Vitamin C (which I upped to try to detoxify-1000-2000mg), calcium citrate, multivitamin, etc..I also drank lemon water to detoxify, too. But I cannot afford to keep having such horrible migraines, since the med is so expensive ($l4/pill) and I don't have insurance anymore..Nothing would make those migraines go away, except, IMITREX..I did not realize that OLE would affect my brain to this extent..I can take most other pain, but when it is in the brain, I have less tolerance..
[This Message was Edited on 03/08/2003]

I know the critters do settle in different parts of the system, for instance in the lower bowl and cause (Crohn`s Colitis Disease), the joints (Arthritis), It is also likely to be responsible for Type 1 Diabetes, Alzheimer`s, Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson`s disease, Aids, Cancer and CFS,FM.
It`s possible they were concentrated in your head (serious potential damage) and that is why it in particular has reacted so badly.
It could explain the swelling which is a reaction the body always has when fighting an infection and healing, the extra water is needed to do this. The awful migrain must be a by product.

Doesn`t help with your pain at the moment, but must be comforting to think that this could have maybe prevented you having a more serious neuro/systemic illness later.
I really hope it has eased off today.

You`re basically on the same supplements as me, I am very interested in this Whey product too, and have been considering it, expensive though, just hoping the OLE does the job first I guess.

I was doing more research last night and found something called Triton Cordyceps, it`s a chinese product based on mushrooms and does a similar job to OLE, could be something worth looking into for you if the OLE is too much.

Love Pat.

That is why I was so interested in the research on Sinus infections being related to fungal causation that you have posted, Carla..I know that I have systemic yeast, so I have thought about trying to treat the sinus infections the anti-candida route..especially, since Mayo has not devised the proper treatment and may be 2 years away according to that article. But I think I will get some Quercitin/with Bromelain to treat my allergies, too. I had a sinus infection almost every 6 weeks last year, but so far this year I have done better. Have you used Quercitin, Carla?
I am going to be talking with my doc, in the near future, about hypercoagulation..but with what symptoms, did that elicit that problem? I always have too high of a pulse rate when it is measured at the doc's, and I had thought that may be due to hypercoagulation since the heart would have to work much harder to pump the blood..also, when they take my blood for a test, it is really slow coming out..I did not know anything about hcg, then, so I did not look to see the color or thickness.. Doesn't this DD make you feel you are falling apart? I HAVEN'T GIVEN UP ON THE OLE, YET, BUT I THINK I WILL EITHER BUY A LOWER PERCENTAGE LEVEL OR SPLIT THESE CAPSULES BY HALF! but my brain is still operating at a "washed-out level, feel shaky and energy is still low" after 3 days being off it..LOL, AMELIA[This Message was Edited on 03/09/2003]