B12 and Depression

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by slowdreamer, Sep 13, 2008.

  1. slowdreamer

    slowdreamer New Member

    Just been reading another post where it was suggested B12 might be causing depression.

    I have been having 2-3 injections of hydroxocobalamin /wk.
    it used to be good when used intermittently but as I am having a very black period I am wondering if there is a connection..
    I seem to have a very good day and then a very bad day making me wonder if the B12 is an artificial stimulus which is upsetting some balance.
    Am wondering is anyone else has had this connection.

    The other explanation could be that a relationship in my life has fallen over due to illness.
    [This Message was Edited on 09/18/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 09/18/2008]
  2. CAM57

    CAM57 New Member

    Has your Dr. tested you B12 level lately?? If not have him/her drawn one ASAP. To much B12 can cause depression! Let us know.
    CAM
  3. Jayna

    Jayna New Member

    for a few days after my shot. I only get one shot a week and really notice the brain fog when it wears off. But a second shot messes up my digestion,so what's a girl to do?

    One thing I have noticed since being back on a regular set of shots: my brain works better (less fog). That makes me a bit more irritable and less patient with myself and others (without the shot, no energy to take up issues... and I forget them after 2.5 minutes anyway).

    I also see the trend of my life better post-shot, and that can be temporarily depressing when I see how much I've given up/lost in the past few years due to illness.
  4. tansy

    tansy New Member

    the day after taking sublingualmethyl B12 but it's not depression; I just feel more toxic/unwell. This has only been happening more recently. The following day though I feel better with a clearer mind than before taking the methyl B12. So now I time when I take methyl B12 accordingly.

    What is your folic acid status? Many doctors (inc my haematologist) and nutritionists recommend supplementing both to keep them in balance. I did not benefit from folic acid supps but a test to see if I was utilising it came back showing I was "markedly deficient". Methylfolate (folapro) and folonic acid work a lot better for me.

    tc, Tansy
    [This Message was Edited on 09/13/2008]
  5. slowdreamer

    slowdreamer New Member

    Thankyou everybody
    Cam57 No testing and not likely...I thought it was meant to cross the blood brain barrier and do its work there.
    I am thinking I will stop for a while and then cut back.
    I pretty much do my own treatment these days using this board a lot and remembering all the guinea pig routines etc I have been subjected to

    Jayna
    Interesting about digestion, I haven't noticed that but totally relate to your other comments re mood and brain clarity.
    Things have changed lately though since I have been having more.

    Tansy
    You probably know this but this doc said the B12 was clearing toxins so that might explain your reaction.
    Re Folate, I haven't found a Folate Supp I can tolerate but I grow my own veg including lots of leafy greens so am hoping that will suffice.
    Perhaps I will have another look for a supplement.
    My injections are actually hydroxocobalamin (1000 microgram)

    If you are still reading I'd love to know how many injections you are on..
    This Doc wants me to build up to 7/wk but I am not so sure.
    [This Message was Edited on 09/13/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 09/13/2008]
  6. tansy

    tansy New Member

    Hi Slowdreamer

    I was editing my reply whilst you wrote yours.

    When I fisrt took methy B12 it was after reading research on it from Japan. Though I did not take it to treat my severe chronic head pain it resolved as a result of taking methyl B12. The head pain I had is recognised in Chinese Medicine as being related to liver function; several acupuncturists had identified problems related to the liver.

    I too feel this is a detox reaction especially since I feel so much better and can think better once the response to methyl B12 passes.

    My haematologist had me back on 10mg of folic acid; it was the only way he knew about then to bypass what he accepted were problems metabolising it. This was long before Rich came up with his theory.

    The methylfolate was difficult to tolerate, it may just have been too effective for me at that time. I tried folonic acid and discovered that I had fewer unpleasant Sx and an improvement in Sx related to low folate.

    One of the reasons I tried methylfolate is low RBC levels can be a risk for DVTS; I have had a pulmonary embolism and haematologists have been concerned about my fibrin/platelet levels, so hence opting for methylfolatre initially.

    I can only grow a few veggies since my garden is very small and I have upper limb disabilities. All my fruit and veg is grown organically (in pots) so I know I am getting a higher level of nutrients than I would from shop bought produce. It tastes better too. I like the idea of getting as many of our nutrients from food as possible.

    As well as the loading test to meausre my utilisation of folic acid I had RBC levels measured; this too showed I was markedly deficient in spite of folic acid supps.

    As mentioned on the above post I use sublingual methyl B12 (Jarrow). When I first took it I went up to the recommended 10mg a day but it was too much, between 3 and 5 worked better. Now my maintenance dose is 2mg (2,000mcg) several times a week. I take a good quality b complex supp that provides B12 daily.

    My haematologist recommended I have hydroxocobalamin injections but my GP refused since my blood levels were within the normal range. Though research has shown we can have low levels in the CNS most doctors here don't know that or don't take any biomedical research on ME/CFS seriously.

    tc, Tansy
    [This Message was Edited on 09/13/2008]
  7. Salix

    Salix New Member

    I have heard quite a few who initially feel depressed with b12, but another tiny thought, have you checked the additional ingredients in the b12 shots? If there are any, are they ones you tolerate okay?

    salix
  8. slowdreamer

    slowdreamer New Member

    Salix..I checked info and apparently there is just the hydroxy in chloride form but thanks anyway.All this sharing of info is so helpful and so Cheap heh?

    Tansy,,thanks for your typical wonderfully comprehensive information.
    It looks like I'll need to try a bit harder on the folate.

    My other option for my current state some people are saying is to have sexual assault counselling..It is just so hard this thing there is always something. I can't decide if it was sexual assault though but you know this disease is a good filter .
    It very quickly screens out lesser people..In another life I may have wasted 6 months on this SO and so.

    I hope your computer situation is resolving.Take care
    from the person of angry rapid images rather than slow dreams.
    Re the use of B12 for the CSF .I am always posting that here .It is surprising how this misinformation persists..
    I think I will go and see my 79 yr old dr around the corner...He no longer worries about what he learnt in a textbook but is able to concede there are many things docs don't understand and the positive effect of B12 on many poorly understood neurological conditions is one of themm.

    Actually I believe B12 is a fungi or bacteria present in soil..I believe one of the reasons gardening helps me significantly is that I am inhaling it when I turn over the soil or weed.
    Now I am moving into wacky territory..Good luck with your homegrown veges and look after that soil.
  9. elliespad

    elliespad Member

    Don't know about the depression connection but,,,

    I take B-12 injections of Methylcobalamin 25 MG/ML. Most B-vitamins are derived from yeast. I am allergic to yeast and the compounding pharmacist must get mine from a different (yeast free) source. I have same problem with oral vitamins/supplements, most Bs and Selenium come from yeast sources. I have to get Yeast-free.

    Just a thought.
  10. SpiroSpero

    SpiroSpero New Member

    There doesn't exist one study that would support a connection between B12 intake and increased depression BUT since I experienced it myself (hydroxy and methyl) I know it is possible.
    I'm absolutely not sure about the mechanism behind it but in my eyes it feels like B12 lets implode my brain chemistry. I'm not sure how B12 does it but for me drug addicts on rehab go through the same thing when their brain gets starved of the drug.
    I eat a lot meat so B12 supply should be enough and I don't supplement it.
    Other people who tell you that it is a detox reaction could easily be wrong. It could be possible but those answers normally have an ideological origin. "supplement=feeling bad=detox"
    I get exactly the same form of depressed mood when I take too much melatonin or sedating antihistamines and those definetly don't cause any detox.
  11. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, all.

    I just want to mention that methylcobalamin is the only substance normally found in biological systems that is able to methylate inorganic mercury. Methylmercury is able to cross the blood-brain barrier and is a neurotoxin. I would therefore urge caution in using very high dosages of methylmercury if there is a likelihood that there is a significant amount of inorganic mercury in the body. Inorganic mercury can result from inhalation of metallic mercury that is continuously evaporating from amalgam dental fillings. If a person has amalgam fillings, and has had CFS for an extended period of time, so that glutathione has been depleted for a long time, inorganic mercury will build up in the body. It results from oxidation of the metallic mercury by the enzyme catalase, which is in the blood. In my opinion, it is safer to use hydroxocobalamin, and to let the cells convert as much of it to methylcobalamin as they need, rather than to put methylcobalamin into the body directly. I realize that this is used a great deal in the treatment of autism, but in autism, much of the mercury came in as thimerosol, which contains an organic form of mercury (ethylmercury) which has thus unfortunately already been able to enter the brain. But in CFS, I think that a significant amount of the mercury often has come from amalgam fillings, which very young children normally do not have.

    Rich
  12. slowdreamer

    slowdreamer New Member

    Thanks again everyone for your input .It has been an informative discussion.
  13. Jayna

    Jayna New Member

    Now I too am getting a 'black period' for about 2 days after my B12 shot.

    Slowdreamer, are you still getting this reaction?

    I am so glad for this thread, as it helped me recognize asap when this started a few weeks ago that it might be the shot and not some other cause like a sudden attack of SAD (which runs in my family). I had to cut my shot down to a half dose because of hives, which is probably a reaction to the yeast-based production of the B12 (all my yeast reactions went crazy 6 months ago), and noticed that the depression is less.

    As the benefits of the shot on my mental fog still outweigh the negative effect of the sudden black hole, I will keep doing it for now since I suspect the process is simply clearing some old crud out of my brain and will ease in time.
  14. SolSerenade

    SolSerenade New Member

    Hi,
    i know just a little about it, since my brother did it during a (bad) period of his illness (cfids).

    but i'm wondering, what is it *supposed to do*??
  15. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I do get a detox reaction if I take too much B-12. I take the Perque hydroxy sublingual kind. So I take a very small amount of it.

    Jayna, I'm kind of worried when you said that all your yeast reactions went crazy 6 months ago. Were you exposed to toxic mold at that time? It can really affect your ability to resist yeast.

    Forebearance
  16. Jayna

    Jayna New Member

    I've been allergic to molds since childhood, could never take penicillin or eat blue cheese etc. It was mostly completely under control until my doctor saw that the B12 shots were helping my brain fog, muscle control, and even bringing colour back to my cheeks and eyes within minutes of the shot. She told me to start twice-a-week shots to get more good days, forgetting (as I did) that almost all B vitamins are manufactured from yeast-based cultures.

    Well, doubling up on a yeast-based injection was one thing that stressed my allergy tolerance; then I ate a bite of a red pepper that had started to mold even though it wasn't visible. I threw out hives really bad immediately and each B12 shot re-triggered the reaction. I had to give up the shots entirely for several months. Last fall I got a handful of nuts and that set me off again.

    I have only been gradually working my way back up to 50 ml injected a week ever since.

    But the depression part is quite new. Only the last few injections have had a really noticeable effect that way, even though I have my hives pretty much under control again. Three days later, I am happy as a lark even if I change nothing.

    I am wondering if something else I ate or drank over the holidays threw off my brain chemistry somehow. Or maybe it's not even my brain; might be my liver acting up. I will keep watch on this and see if any co-factors to the depression emerge.
  17. superchief

    superchief Member

    I have been taking a B-12 supplement, and I believe that it can cause depression. I quit taking my daily dose yesterday and I am already starting to feel better.
  18. superchief

    superchief Member

    I believe you, it happened to me!