Barrowinnovations/ Dr Farr

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by quilp, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. quilp

    quilp New Member

    I live here over in the UK. I hope to get my results from Smokies later this year. How could I contact Dr Farr with this information ? Can you leave his contact details, website address et al ?
    One point of interest is that for the first time in 13 years i'm off Antidepressants ( Lofepramine ) This has only been possible because of the digestive enzymes. Why should digestive enzymes be effective in this way ? Have you any idea ? Nobody here in the UK knows
    I had previously tried on several occasions to get off these tablets but the symptoms of ME got much worse. I couldn't move, couldn't even look at a TV screen, even noise from the radio was too much. In short my body slowly shut down.

    Love, Mark
  2. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    You have some of the same problems I had, I was so low on neurotransmitters, I couldn't look at the news or anything with words on it because my mind would try to read it and that uses neurotransmitters and if there aren't any, it causes a great deal of distress in the mind. The mind likes to make patterns with everything it looks at and when you're particularly low on the neurotransmitters, it hurts like hell. It's probably why you were depressed, too.

    You may want to see my thread "neurotransmitter precursors". Look at the one dated Jan 18 2007. I listed all the major neurotransmitters and the things (mostly amino acids) that the body uses to build them. I think this is a better way of trying to get them in balance instead of antidepressants. The antidepressants mostly work by slowing the breakdown of the neurotransmitters but this won't really help all that much if you don't have many to start with. Besides, it's a drug and has nasty side effects. When you take amino acids, this is giving the body what it really needs and it builds the neurotransmitters from these.

    It makes sense that digestive enzymes are helping you because most of these things that are happening to us is the result of deficiencies of nutrients that we need caused by a malfunctioning digestive system. Digestion is being hampered by gut dysbiosis (imbalance of gut flora) and liver congestion. When the gut flora is off, you can't digest your food properly. For one thing, some of the good bacteria make some of the enzymes you need to digest your food. So if you've been supplementing with digestive enzymes and getting good results, then that's a clue you have dysbiosis going on and you're not making your own enzymes. Then you can't absorb all the nutrients in the food.

    Then you start slowly starving to death, basically. You seem to get the sugar out of the food okay, so you don't just drop dead, but the nutrients aren't being broken down and absorbed by the body. And it isn't obvious, either. You may be taking food in and it's coming out seemingly normal like it always has, with no cramps or indigestion, but it's just not being broken down properly and being absorbed and used by the body.

    So what happens is you get low on all the vitamins and minerals AND then you get low on all the metabolites (chemicals your body makes) that your body makes from the nutrients. You get low on stuff like zinc, which you need to make stomach acid among other things, then you can't make stomach acid. Then you can't digest fats and proteins with no acid. And you need protein to make repairs and fats to make hormones, among other things.

    You can't make metabolites like coq10, which is crucial for the body to make energy and also crucial for the heart. There are somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 different proteins running around in your body at any given time and you can imagine what would happen if you cut off nutrients that the body uses to make these proteins. All the different metabolic systems are going to start breaking down. And digestion, which was already having problems, breaks down along with them - it gets even worse and you get a domino effect of all the metabolic systems of your body being starved for the chemicals they need and you know the rest.

    Also, the liver is part of digestion and what happens to it is because of what is not happening in the stomach and gut. When you eat fats and proteins, acid breaks them down in the stomach, and then enzymes break them down even further in the guts and THEN those digested fats and proteins come in contact with the liver. What's happening in us is that there is not enough acid or enzymes and the fats and proteins are only partially digested when they hit the liver. This causes the liver to get congested and have a hard time doing all the things it does. And that right there is the cause of many of our symptoms. It also makes you feel like you're dying if it's bad enough. I've gone to the emergency room feeling like that several times just to have them do some tests, declare I'm perfectly healthy, and I should probably see a shrink since there's obviously nothing wrong with me. They just don't do the right tests! They need to do things like a stool analysis, but then they wouldn't be able to interpret them and they wouldn't be able to treat you, anyway. That's where Farr comes in.

    After being sick for a few years and figuring out some of this, what I did was start taking as many vitamins, minerals, amino acids and metabolites as I could find. And I got out of bed and didn't feel like I was dying anymore, and my brain function improved, but it wasn't until I went after the guts that I got to where I am now. I do everything with Farr by phone and email, all his contact info is at his site which is becomehealthynow. It's a regular dot com address. You can fill out a brief questionnaire and get a free phone consultation, though I imagine he'd want you to call him since you are so far away, but I'm not sure. Maybe you can do it all by email, it would just be slower. Do you have Skype? That would make calling him much cheaper.

    What's really sad is, apparently, virtually no medical doctor is capable of diagnosing (and certainly not capable of treating) gut dysbiosis and digestive problems. They learned and are allowed ONLY to sell drugs to you and these things cannot be fixed with drugs. You need supplements in the forms of things like betaine hcl (a beet derived form of the acid the stomach uses), zinc and enzymes for the guts and certain herbs to clean up the liver/gallbladder.

    I'm assuming docs are pretty much the same over there. But do you have an FDA that operates the same? In the US, the doctors are only allowed to prescribe substances for treatment of an illness if it has been tested and then approved by the FDA as a treatment for that particular illness. But no company can afford to do testing on natural substances because they cannot be patented and so they would not have any way to sell it exclusively and recoup the money they spent on the FDA approval process. Is this the same problem you have over there?

    It sounds like you already had the beginnings of this disease years ago when you were prescribed the antidepressants. That's why I hope people who are just beginning to have problems like that will somehow search the net and find that they may just need some help with digestion before it turns into full blown cfs or fibro. But then they're going to have to look outside the medical profession for help with it, and most people won't look there.

    That's one thing about supplements being used as treatments for these diseases. Some say that if something worked, we'd all know about it and we'd all be getting better. This is simply not true. If you are capable of treating this disease with supplements, you are not allowed to advertise this fact because those supplements have not been FDA approved as a treatment for this disease. So it is illegal for anyone to publicly announce that they can treat this disease since there are no FDA approved substances for it. So you get lucky if you find your expert online or by word of mouth. People who are suffering at home without computers are doomed. I feel really bad for them.

    It sounds like maybe you aren't all that bad off. I mean if the enzymes did that much for you, maybe you don't have too much wrong and it can be undone. It just takes time and money.

    good luck

  3. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    I don't think I made it quite clear above why depression could be solved by digestive enzymes. I forgot to say that proteins are broken down into amino acids by digestion. If the digestive system isn't working, the proteins don't get broken down into amino acids. Since the body uses amino acids to make neurotransmitters, the body doesn't get enough aminos to make them so they diminish to low levels. Then you get depression, brain fog, concentration induced "mind pain", etc.

    That's why taking lots of amino acids helped me get most of my brain function back. I listed them all in my post about neurotransmitter precursors. I still have memory problems, but I can now read as much as I want, as late or early in the day as I want, and I'm even doing puzzle books. Cryptograms and syllacrostics are my favorites.

    best wishes

  4. quilp

    quilp New Member

    Can I start by saying a very big thank you. That thread must have taken you ages and for that I am truly grateful. Sometimes words aren't enough.
    I have printed off your thread and 'digested' it's contents ! What you have said makes so much sense to me. Two years ago I could barely get out of bed some days. Now I feel stronger, fitter and happier. What's also interesting is that i don't get that horrible shivery feeling, that at times was so bad that it felt really painful. I would almost start crying.
    Here in the UK we have an organisation called NICE ( The national institute for clinical excellence ) They are much like your FDA. There is huge controversy over here relating to a number of new drugs coming onto the market. Trust me, were a cure for ME to become available it would take years for them to approve it based on 'cost effectiveness'
    We have people dying because life prolonging drugs are being denied by Primary Care Trusts ( PCT ) These drugs can be widely prescribed in one city but not in another. It's truly dreadful.
    NICE recommends Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and Graded Exercise as treatments for ME. When I was diagnosed thirteen years ago antidepressants and an appointment with a psychiatrist with standard treatment practices.
    The medical doctors i have encountered are hugely dismissive of this illness and hugely dismissive of alternative practitioners. One doctor told me i didn't need any supplements because i should be getting all that from a 'balanced diet'. To think i once trusted these people.
    I do take L- Glutamine and I believe my ability to read/concentrate has increased, but still, watching a long film or reading for more than an hour a night gives me problems. Are there any amino acids that are on your 'must have list' ?
    I'm sorry if I have embarrassed you by praising you in the way I have ( it seems so public ! ) but you really deserve it. My life has truly changed because of advice from people like yourself.

    Please look after yourself and keep up the good fight.
  5. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Actually, the thread didn't take all that long, I type really fast and I can think now so no big deal. Just glad I could help, you're very welcome.

    The aminos I really like and still take are Dr Vickery's Platinum Plus Essential Aminos - a really good blend - and I still use acetyl l carnitine, creatine, taurine, tyrosine and lysine. And I also use a whey protein powder that Farr recommends. But for a very long time, I took all the ones on my list of neurotransmitter precursors. I was taking tons of pills every day. But since they were things the body needed, it really helped. The aminos were crucial to brain function. If I remember correctly, the more important ones were phenylalanine, methionine, threanine and glutamine.

    Also, the biotec pills from the mitochondria post I did seemed to really clear up my brain. I used to have a hard time waking up in the morning, my mind especially. Like I couldn't get on my computer too early and just read read read. But starting the same day I took them, I could stay up as late as I wanted at night and get up and use my brain as early as I wanted in the morning. Like it was stuffed full of peroxynitrite or something! I still take those, but not as much. Now only like one per day unless I'm really active, then two.

    I was never one to try one or two things at a time to see what worked or didn't work. I had tried that in the beginning and it was just taking too long. I was so bedridden and miserable, I was pretty ticked off about the whole thing so I decided on the shotgun approach, risky as it seemed. So I researched my symptoms, decided what deficiencies I had, ordered all of those nutrients and metabolites that I thought I was deficient in, and took them all at once. I was taking like 80 pills a day, many of them digestive enzymes. But the digestive enzymes didn't help too much because I had such a bad case of gut dysbiosis.

    I wasn't too worried about taking so many pills because they were all things the the body uses, as opposed to drugs which need to be detoxified. I know I can take 80 different supplements that are just vitamins, minerals and metabolites, but I don't think anybody could take 80 pills of different drugs in a day. Drugs were not what I needed, anyway. It was amazing how ignorant my doctors were about what I was taking. Sure, they knew about vitamins and minerals, but the metabolites most of them had never heard of and just gave me a blank stare when I tried to explain. Things like coq10, pantethine and calcium pyruvate were so far over their heads but they were making me feel so much better. I wonder when they're going to study these important things in medical school?

    I wonder if your shivery feeling was same as the "buzzing" I use to experience in the first days? It was horrible, I buzzed all the time, all over my body, and it drove me nuts. Plus I felt like I was dying all the time. I actually considered pulling the plug, I was in such agony I didn't want to keep lasting decades like that. It was worse than any torture. Hoo boy, glad that's over!

    Therapy as treatment for CFS is laughable. They obviously have no clue about antioxidant enzymes and how the body regulates energy. And how is a bedridden person supposed to do this? In the early days, I used to have to call my husband home from our office so he could get me food, water and take me to the bathroom. My first idiot doctor - who was a digestive disease specialist but who obviously didn't know anything about digestion, isn't that funny? - he recommended a shrink and exercise. Now I know more about digestion than he does.

    Don't worry about embarrassing me, I just wish more people would take advantage of the way Dr. Farr does things. All supplement recommendations are based on tests that show exactly where we're messed up. It's very effective and from what I'm seeing, is different for everybody. That's how you know you are getting a good deal. Treatment has to be tailor made to an individual's metabolic systems that have gone south.

    Out of curiosity, I asked him in an email if all CFSers should be doing the low carb diet and this is what he said:

    "Low carb diet with CFS? Well it depends on the gut and the state of the gut. You can't tell that unless you test the stool. Sometimes we also do gluten testing with the stool as well. It depends; no one is the same. Wheat, dairy and all of the foods in the detox diet are the most common foods that the majority of people have problems with. Some people are finding their "own" solutions with "research" they've done. Many people simply do NOT have a clue. The REAL problem is many times they are looking for a "magic pill" that will magically make everything go away. Nutrition is not the same as taking drugs. They're still attached to the medical model which is worthless in 90% of cases with chronic disease. I get people when they're on "their last leg" and I have to start at the bottom with the biggest problem and work our way out of the maze. It takes time but is longer lasting and we are not just treating symptms, we're treating organ and tissue problems confirmed with history and lab tests that have to be put together."

    He also mentioned that there are literally thousands of dollars of tests out there, but once he looks at the patients history (those 200-300 hundred questions we answered after our first consultation) he can narrow it down to just a few. This is what medical doctors should be doing but they don't.

    take care

  6. quilp

    quilp New Member

    You make some very good points about the one size doesn't fit all. There's no money in tailor made solutions, in much the same way that cars are massed produced rather than custom made. A tailor made remedy just wouldn't be economically viable for the big drug companies. I think what angers me is that highly paid medical doctors over here are reluctant to even look at other ideas. It goes against the grain, against their medical training, and sadly against their patients own interests.
    Within two visits of seeing my doctor back in 1995 he had put me on 140mg of Antidepresssants per day, rising to 210mg by the end of the year.
    I like others on here have literally begged those around me, to allow me to die.
    I even looked into going over to Switzerland, where euthanasia is accepted.
    The shivery feeling was such that even sitting in a chair, on sitting in the drivers seat of my car would feel painful. I wore an extra layer of clothes in the summer and still couldn't keep warm. This has changed as a direct result of taking the digestive enzymes.
    I am going to contact Dr Farr in due course. Thank you so much.
    I'm also going to order some amino acids and see what happens. I quite agree though that the stool analysis is the way to go as a starting point.
    I have now seen a medical doctor, an immunologist, and a psychiatrist. None of them came close to offering the advice you have.
    To think of the life changing effect that someone with your knowledge and experience could offer those with ME. Instead we have highly paid professionals with their huge pensions doing absolutely nothing; in fact greatly exacerbating the health and wellbeing of people like me; leaves me feeling angry and frustrated.
    I know there are tens of thousands of people out there in this country alone that are suffering the most horrendous pain and yet there are people that can help. Welcome to the human race, this is where we are at.

    Kind regards Mark
  7. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    Not to tread on Karen's toes, but you might also want to look at the methylation protocol.

    Those supplements have really helped me, & I think if you look at this board, there are a bunch of people taking them.
    So you can get feedback from a bunch of people.

    I think Karen uses the active folates too...

  8. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Your shivery feeling sounds more like a temperature regulation problem. The adrenals are responsible for that, mainly, with the hypothalamus monitoring regulation. I still have some problems with my own hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis, but not nearly as bad as before.

    I was never cold, I just felt like I was full of bees. I still don't know what caused it. I haven't had it in a long time. But I would get very heat intolerant. And here in the tropics, that would get really uncomfortable. Before I moved here, my nights were the worst. In beginning, I was chronically dehydrated, hypoglycemic and had a severely malfunctioning hpa axis and nights were hell. Every night I would wake up severely dehydrated and hypoglycemic and would swear I was dying. But I didn't know I was dehydrated, hypoglycemic and with an hpa axis problem, so I just suffered through hundreds of episodes like this without knowing what to do. Really awful.

    Deliarose is right, you should at least consider the folate. I believe that and the phosphatidyl serine and the retinyl palmitate to be the most important things. Careful with retinly palmitate, though, it's a form of vitamin A that's particularly hard on the liver in high doses. Actually, the folate is, too, if you have liver congestion. These are all just metabolites that aren't being made in adequate amounts in the body. But if the gut dysbiosis is sufficiently bad, it could really hinder improvement.

    best wishes


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