BLACK HOLE might spoil our SUMMER this year??

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by victoria, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. victoria

    victoria New Member

    this was from part of HSI's newsletter, thought it was rather interesting... wonder how possible it would be?

    Sometime this summer a giant particle accelerator in Switzerland will begin smashing protons at energy levels around seven trillion electron volts, which may create a black hole that could consume the earth. OR…it might just reduce the earth to a super-dense chunk of "strange matter."

    Either way, it would really spoil our summer.

    Chances are, neither of those things will happen, but two scientists in Hawaii aren't so sure. In fact, they're concerned enough that they recently filed a lawsuit seeking a restraining order that would delay the experiment until a report can be produced to confirm the safety of the project. They've also requested an environmental assessment. Because nothing messes up the environment like an earth-consuming black hole.

    Scientists for the European Center for Nuclear Research (the organization that took nearly 15 years to build the $8 billion Hadron Collider) have already conducted safety reviews and they feel certain that any black holes that might be created will simply evaporate. That's what cosmologist Stephen Hawking believes will happen, and they're banking that he's right. After all, he's a pretty smart guy.

    But the Hawaiian scientists contend these assurances are "propaganda" and the safety reviews are fundamentally flawed.

    Dr. Nima Arkani-Hamed, a particle theorist at Princeton, has a unique take on the controversy. He told the New York Times that while there's probably no merit to the fear that the collider will produce a killer black hole, in the world of quantum physics almost anything could happen. "The Large Hadron Collider might make dragons that might eat us up."

    "Asking a Judge to Save the World, and Maybe a Whole Lot More" Dennis Overbye, The New York Times, 3/29/08,


    What say you all, especially the mad scientist types of all disciplines...?

    [This Message was Edited on 04/10/2008]
  2. rockgor

    rockgor Well-Known Member

    to a Black Hole?

    Very likely it would all happen so fast we wouldn't know a thing. So, can your summer be spoiled if you don't know it's spoiled?

    The first atomic bomb exploded when I was five years old. I read that some of the scientists were worried it might start a chain reaction and destroy the Earth.

    This would have destroyed the balance of the solar system. Would the other planets have crashed into each other?

    Would Pluto have been involved even if it is no longer an official planet?

    Where is MrBill to help us w/ this thorny questions?

  3. Kathleen12

    Kathleen12 New Member

    My lack of concern over this is only because according to the Mayan Calendar, the world will end in the year 2012. So I doubt that a proton smasher is going to change the predictions of that accurate calendar and many other prophecies pertaining to our world distruction. I love this kind of stuff.
  4. victoria

    victoria New Member

    if you like these kinds of things, you might also like these articles:
    about poltergeist activity being taken seriously, and published in the actual journal:

  5. stick2013

    stick2013 Member

    If I knew for sure that the world was going to end this summer......I would start having fun NOW!!!!!!!! I would, NOT pay my bills, buy whatever I wanted, spend $$ like crazy, and just have FUN!!!!!!!
  6. victoria

    victoria New Member

    Wonder how well that would hold up as an argument in bankruptcy court, just in case it didn't happen as planned????

  7. fivesue

    fivesue New Member

    I can't imagine a 17 mile collider! They are trying to see how sub-atomic particles gain mass. They think it's a force that people have called the "God Particle," and the particles pick up weight by passin through it; the slower they travel, the more they weigh.

    All to abstract for me and too complicated, but then, I was an English teacher.

    Then I heard last night about it becoming a black hole. Wow. Interesting times we live in.

    Good post.

  8. rockgor

    rockgor Well-Known Member

    I thought about an extremely slow chain reaction when I was posting, but decided to omit a discussion of same. Didn't want to dither around and end up w/ something like that goofy quantum argument that the cat is both dead and alive.

    Just read a thriller by Jeffery Deaver. He has the old riddle about the farmer and the 3 hawks running thru the book. His answer is slightly different than the one I heard as a kid.

  9. victoria

    victoria New Member

    actually about a particle accelerator built in Arizona by the gov't on an Indian Reservation... talked about the same fears as the article I posted, that the accelerator could possibly create a black hole that swallowed everything up.

    I thought it was pretty good, at least for listening to as I fell asleep LOL...

    At the end, the scientists were convinced that something else was actually happening before the whole thing blew up, by design as it turns out...

    I cannot remember the name of the book or author as usual... but don't want to give the whole plot away either LOL.

  10. therealmadscientist

    therealmadscientist New Member

    thorny problem, though do appreciate the interesting intellectual stimulus.

    Does seem that there should be some debate about what to do if black hole is created. Quantum tweezers perhaps?

    Ultimately, perspective is the probably the important thing:

    An environmental impact report written by earthlings would likely have a very alarmist and anthropocentric bias, and would, of course, find the problem to be "catastrophic".

    Say, though, the environmental report were written from a galactic viewpoint. A black hole swallowing earth would be an event barely worth studying.

    The main attitude of such a report would probably emphasize the NIMBY (Not IN MY BACKYARD) aspects.

    Like, you earthlings created it.....don't try to send it out into space into my neighborhood.

    Peace and Tranquility to All. Your mr Bill
    [This Message was Edited on 04/10/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 04/10/2008]
  11. painterZ

    painterZ New Member


  12. Cromwell

    Cromwell New Member

    The book is called "Blasphemy" the one about this being done in Arizona BTW.

    Dan (scientist DH ) told me this:

    The real problem is that cosmology and quantum physics are so up in the air now, that they they frankly don't know their A's from a black hole in the ground!

    We really know very little about high energy proton resonances, which really COULD take things into another dimension, and they should study a little more before they turn the darn thing on.

    Steven Hawkin may not be right about whether the constants of nature are actually constant in a black hole environment.

    Black holes would be small, less than 10 to the -15th meter, unless they somehow energized a broader, higher dimension, where the resonance could take place.

    Of course, at any given time, a black hole created in space could also head our way, although that is not too likely either.

    All the theories are not complete between special relativity affects of high energy protons and resonance states. Maybe we should wait till they are, rather than risk further damage to the expensive equipment at Cern, as they already ruined the magnets just in testing them last year, which caused a years delay and maybe about a billion dollar cost.

    Watch out for regressing the energy back to original universes energy (big bang energy) the energy state regresses back to to 137th state, which controls the fine structure constant of the universe at that moment in space and time.

    Annie ( I can tell you that Dan and I chat about this all the time! which is why I get SOOOOO tired!)
  13. victoria

    victoria New Member

    at least I could remember it was in AZ LOL if not the name or author... I find there's several books starting with that title, so for the record, the author is Douglas Preston...

    LOL-- so do you let your DH talk you to sleep at night, Annie?

    We wouldn't know the difference if something like this happened
    -- same as if we got hit with an asteroid from space that we didn't see coming... there won't be anyone around 'living' to wonder or know what it was ...

  14. therealmadscientist

    therealmadscientist New Member

    Did we ever figure what DH means?

    Would be nice if the black hole took some time to develop. Incredible drama and excitemen available if it grew over a year or two. Sort of like one of the Milennia events. Sigh, mr bill

  15. Cromwell

    Cromwell New Member

    DH in my case means dear husband-it can vary depending upon. Like you, he is a mad scientist, drives me nuts with all his scribbles and figuring out on cosmology issues.