Callum I Apologize...

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by lgp, Apr 5, 2008.

  1. lgp

    lgp Well-Known Member

    and I immediately deleted the thread. I would never want to upset you in any way and for that I am truly sorry.

    I was/am a little confused by the whole process though. Maybe it's my fibro mind that's causing the confusion...

    Regarding the adoption proceedure, you're right, my unthinking mind temporarily lost sight of the fact that some states prohibit adoption of children by gay couples or couples/people that don't meet the 'standard.' I don't know why the status quo feels it's better for a child to suffer when there are wonderful, caring alternative couples/families wanting to embrace them. THAT HAS TO CHANGE.

    Again, my sincerest apologies to you. I really, really feel badly--I hope you understand that much of my confusion concerned the biological aspect of this process. Thanks for pointing out my well intended but misguided post. We can all learn from each other and once more, I humbly apologize.

  2. Callum

    Callum New Member

    I do appreciate your very kind gesture, and the fact you didn't become defensive, which is so easy to do (that's why I deleted my initial post, which I hope did not linger long enough for anyone to read) because I've read enough of your posts and Granni's post to know that you are very considerate, compassionate people.

    It is a very difficult concept for most of us to grasp. To be honest, there is a lot of prejudice in the gay/lesbian community toward trans-gendered individuals, and you think that if any community could show compassion, it would be a community that experiences similar responses of fear, hatred and ridicule.

    How easy can it be for someone who, all there life, never questioned their sexual identity to understand what it is like for some one who, from the age of two, never felt comfortable in their own skin? Even though I recognized those things that made me different as early as age four, I never thought of myself as anything but a man. This was something that wasn't even conscious. It wasn't a process or something I "determined." I'm sure that's true of at least 98 of 100 people.

    So, the concept of an individual that was born with all the parts of one sex, but for some reason always felt they were born in the wrong body is foreign to me, as it must be for you. I hope my post didn't make you feel ashamed of that confusion. I think it's natural. And maybe what I've done is squelched your journey of trying to figure it out by making you feel ashamed, and so perhaps it is I who should be apologizing to you.

    Especially when this isn't a straight-out transgendered story, but a story of man who, when he made the very-scary decision to make the change to a man, still held on to his female reproductive organs so he could still have children of his own. That adds a level of confusion for the unindoctrinated, huh? It also raises the issue that, although he always identified as a man, all his life, he still has the desire to nurture that we define as the female role. Does that mean that he's confused, or is it that we need to re-define gender roles? Perhaps men can be nurturers if they are taught that it is not unmasculine to be so?

    Again, I apologize for stepping on your struggle to understand and comprehend. I wish I had responded differently - I think that all the snide comments from pundits that I've been forced to hear recently, plus the nut-case senator from Oklahoma that thinks it's okay to suggest that gays and lesbians are recruiting two-year-olds, has made me thinner skinned than I would hope I'd be.

    I always value your posts, Laura (and Granni) and again, thanks for being sensitive to my feelings.

  3. lgp

    lgp Well-Known Member

    I would have responded sooner to your eloquent post but I am having alot of trouble with my laptop. It freezes up and you can't power it down. You have to remove the battery pack and start it up again. I do that reluctantly because I'm afraid of losing my data. I'm currently writing a book so it's a little scary. But I do back everything up. It's a Dell Inspiron--I wouldn't buy it again.

    Anyway, thank you SO SO MUCH for accepting my apology. I had to run out to the supermarket before, I couldn't concentrate because I was so pre-occupied by my own stupidity. I guess we all have our moments.

    Something you said that struck a nerve with me--the insensitivity trans-gendered individuals experience within the gay and lesbian community. Several years ago, I worked in a high end consumer product business and one of our regular clients was a trans-gendered (male-to-female) individual who had not yet fully completed the process. While there was the typical a#$h)(* reaction from some of the macho guys/jerks who worked there, I was appalled by the contemptuous treatment this poor soul received from my lesbian co-worker--the hostility was unnerving and I (along with another female hetero sales rep) had to pull her aside and tell her to knock it off or else. He received the most compassionate service from the hetero women in my unit, and would seek out my friend or me whenever he returned. My friend left the company after I did, and one of the last things she did was call this person and assign a new and sensitive salesperson to his file.

    It is difficult for people to imagine living in someone else's skin. I remember years ago the pain suffered by one of my friend's when he finally came out. He was married to a woman that he absolutely adored and he felt tortured. I wanted to feel his pain for him. So many people were angry with him for 'what he did to her' (there were no kids involved) but I wasn't, even though my association with him was through her. I saw a pain in his eyes that I cannot even put into words, but it lives in my heart forever. I don't see him as much as I used to but when I do, he looks me straight in the eye, and I swear, that pain is still there. On the upside, after the dust settled, and his wife stopped hating him--took a few months, they became great friends again, and are now closer to each other than ever, which makes him very happy.

    My next thought is, what can the agenda possibly be of that senator from Oklahoma? Is he kidding? I look at someone like him through my own jaded New Yorker eyes, but I think somewhere else someone's buying his schtick, and it scares me.

    Finally, I just wanted to say that your post was elopquent, beautiful, thoughtfully worded, sensitive and purposeful. I thank you for taking the time to point things out that I may have been aware of, but somehow lost sight of. You are a wonderful caring person to speak so wisely and compassionately. Thank you for taking the time to make me think.

    I noticed in your profile that you are an Aries like me. I should have known!!!


    [This Message was Edited on 04/05/2008]
  4. Callum

    Callum New Member

    Thanks for the response. It was thought-provoking on so many levels.

    I'd love to continue it, but I seem to be experiencing the fog right now. Perhaps you wouldn't mind if I post to this thread in a day or so?

    Have a great weekend, and thanks again for your sensitivity!

    A fellow Aries! Is your birthday coming up or past? Mine was the 23rd (same as Joan Crawford and William Shatner, and I'm exactly one day older than Sarah Jessica Parker.) In some ways, I'm such a typical Aries, (especially when my fire-like temper gets tapped unexpectedly - Oooh, I can be so stubborn!!!)


    [This Message was Edited on 04/05/2008]
  5. lgp

    lgp Well-Known Member

    Yesterday was my birthday (4/04) and I totally understand the fog. I've got it SO bad today, my head is killing me--and of course everyone is coming here tonight for my birthday and hubby (3/30). I need to decompress myself, so go relax, and enjoy. Talk to you soon, my friend--


    P.S. Did you ever notice how many people on the board are Aries?
    [This Message was Edited on 04/05/2008]
  6. Granniluvsu

    Granniluvsu Well-Known Member

    Oh dear Callum,

    I am so sorry if I hurt your feelings in any way. Actually, I went back searching to find the post that I had written and couldn't find it. I do not remember everything I said but the whole thing is so confusing and different.

    I certainly am not shall we say homophobic or prejudiced towards gays in any way. I have, as well as my children have extended family members who are gay, both men and women and they are wonderful caring people. I just got carried away with this transgendered issue and having children.

    Yes, to live in someone elses shoes is not an easy thing, espeiclly if one is very different from the so called "norm'.

    Please, again except my very sincere apology. I am glad I found Laura's post to you or I wouldn't have seen your post also back to her. Yes, you speak very eloquently on this issue. Also, like I said I looked for my post or all the posts . I think Laura started that thread correct.? Since she deleted it they all went bye bye. I think I got it now. I have never been in a mess like this one before.

    I am so sorry Callum. I do not know what else to say. However, I am glad I saw it and was given the chance to apologize to you.

    Like Laura said I forgot that different states have different rules on adoption for gay couples. I agree with what she said also about gay couples adopting. There are so many children needing to be adopted needing caring and loving homes.

    Thank you Laura also for starting this thread so I could apologize also.

    God bless you,


    [This Message was Edited on 04/05/2008]
  7. Callum

    Callum New Member

    And I know you didn't mean anything by it. I love seeing your posts on the site; I think you're such a loving, positive presence... My initial response, which was deleted when Laura deleted her thread, I think had more to do with the hateful things I've heard and read recently, and reading the post somehow plugged into that wound. I'm just amazed at how gracious, supportive and open you have both been in replying to me. I wasn't trying to attack you, but I think it would have been a human response if you had felt attacked, and yet you both reached out.

    I think that says a lot about both of you. But then, those of us who spend enough time on this board already knew how wonderful you both are.

  8. Granniluvsu

    Granniluvsu Well-Known Member


    You are more than welcome and I appreciate so much your foriving and sweet words. Yes, this is a board of sick people and we especially need to be forgiving and understanding of others.

    I also know with pain all the time that is not always an esay task, especially on line when you cannot see the person face to face, if you know what I mean. When you can see the person it is easier to tell how what they have said is meant, tone of voice, facial expressions, etc.

    Sorry, have to get ready to go to church now.

    God bless,