Candida Die-Off Help

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by karen2002, Nov 10, 2002.

  1. karen2002

    karen2002 New Member

    I just posted this to the Candida board at this site, but noticed there were month lags between the posts. Thought it would be more beneficial to post here, and see if I could get some help.
    I have been on antibiotics since the age of 13, with rounds every 2-3 months with chronic UTI's.
    For the last year, I have been on a prophylactic dose of Macrobid, an antibiotic, daily.
    After a severe kidney infection w/ 104.7 degree temp for 4 days, I was hospitalized. Needless to say, they had hell, fighting it off due to drug resistance. Since that incredible stress I have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, and Chronic Fatigue.
    I have finally found a Doctor, willing to treat all my systemic problems, as a whole. One of which is Candida--Due to the constant antibiotic therapy my gut is a nightmare. After complaining of irritable bowel syndrome, my physician checked, and sure enough, I have no healthy bacteria at all, and am over-run with candida. I also have chronic vaginal candida, and candida in my mouth (thrush). Due to the constant irritation in the gut, I have developed leaky gut syndrome. This allows free flow or permeation of my gut contents into my body---and now the candida is everywhere. Some of the pain in joints, and skeletal areas, can be caused by this, I am told, as candida affixes in these areas, as well.
    I am eliminating all the typical foods from my diet-neccessary, on a gradual basis. Having FM and CFS makes me careful not to stress my body, with rapid changes. I have been taking berberdine daily. My physician has taken me off all antibiotics, which my urologists had prescribed. To prevent urinary tract infections, I now take Mannose, to prevent them. Tommorrow I begin my antifungal treatment (Nystatin). I will be taking Gastromycin also, which should bind with the candida, hopefully easing the repercussions. With the level of candida in my system, I am greatly anticipating this die off. This has been 30 years in the making, and I am hoping it will not be devastating. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Karen
  2. karen2002

    karen2002 New Member

    I just posted this to the Candida board at this site, but noticed there were month lags between the posts. Thought it would be more beneficial to post here, and see if I could get some help.
    I have been on antibiotics since the age of 13, with rounds every 2-3 months with chronic UTI's.
    For the last year, I have been on a prophylactic dose of Macrobid, an antibiotic, daily.
    After a severe kidney infection w/ 104.7 degree temp for 4 days, I was hospitalized. Needless to say, they had hell, fighting it off due to drug resistance. Since that incredible stress I have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, and Chronic Fatigue.
    I have finally found a Doctor, willing to treat all my systemic problems, as a whole. One of which is Candida--Due to the constant antibiotic therapy my gut is a nightmare. After complaining of irritable bowel syndrome, my physician checked, and sure enough, I have no healthy bacteria at all, and am over-run with candida. I also have chronic vaginal candida, and candida in my mouth (thrush). Due to the constant irritation in the gut, I have developed leaky gut syndrome. This allows free flow or permeation of my gut contents into my body---and now the candida is everywhere. Some of the pain in joints, and skeletal areas, can be caused by this, I am told, as candida affixes in these areas, as well.
    I am eliminating all the typical foods from my diet-neccessary, on a gradual basis. Having FM and CFS makes me careful not to stress my body, with rapid changes. I have been taking berberdine daily. My physician has taken me off all antibiotics, which my urologists had prescribed. To prevent urinary tract infections, I now take Mannose, to prevent them. Tommorrow I begin my antifungal treatment (Nystatin). I will be taking Gastromycin also, which should bind with the candida, hopefully easing the repercussions. With the level of candida in my system, I am greatly anticipating this die off. This has been 30 years in the making, and I am hoping it will not be devastating. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Karen
  3. pam_d

    pam_d New Member

    Hi, Karen-

    I'm seeing a MD who deals with candida next week, I strongly suspect the same thing for me, that yeast overgrowth is a culprit; I have not actually been on antibiotics for about a year and a half, but have had many years of prior use (months at a time on & off) for chronic sinus infections...I will let you know how it goes, I will be anxious to hear how it goes for you, also--how it is to follow the diet, nystatin use, feeling worse before you get better, etc.---I've read about all this, but anxious to hear from someone actually going through it. Much, much good luck to you following this program, I hope to hear that it makes a significant difference to your health, it will give me & others hope, too!

    Hugs & Better Health,
    Pam
  4. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Everyone needs to take probiotics just to keep good bacteria in a healthy person. Someone on antibiotics will develop lots of problems without the probiotics and may eventually have Leaky Gut Syndrome and develop food allergies.

    I take them every day and I have been on antibiotics for more than a year. I've been taking them for years.

    Love, Mikie
  5. wander

    wander New Member

    Hi Karen'
    I have been through it. I was tested and was off the charts for candida and other parasites etc. that do not belong in the intestines. My life has been turned around for the better as far as my ibs. I did it under the supervision of my doctor with homeopathic detoxing. It took approx 6 to 8 weeks. I took it slow because I had what is called a healing crisis all the toxins dying off and being eliminated from the body. Also take the probiotics. Find one with very high amounts and with no other preseratives. I now detox approx two times a year we shoot for Spring and Fall before season change when fibro flares up the most. Good Luck hang in there.
    Wander
    PS It is hard the first time can be very rough in the beginning but will get better. I experenced many fibro symptoms my first 4 or 5 days then tolerated it well and it payed off.[This Message was Edited on 11/10/2002]
  6. karen2002

    karen2002 New Member

    I knew I would forget something....in my post,always do anymore, lol, but still can find my way home (phew)!
    Yes, I am taking probiotics, Mikie, he started me on those a month ago. Thanks for your help, and honesty--Wish you practiced here in Texas, wolf--a good dose of humor, is often great medicine! There is too a tooth fairy, and waving these chicken feet over my head is bound to do some good to ;-)
    Pam, just let me know if you want the sugar coated version, next week, or true grit.
    Wander, silly me, I thought perhaps this was a one time deal--- you say you detox twice a year--is this for candida, or for other things as well?
    Karen
  7. ohmyaching

    ohmyaching New Member

    I would love to have a doctor who treats systemic
    candida. I've been looking for one for thirty years now.
    Either they want a small fortune- holistic doctors who
    want to do hundreds of expensive tests to get the “full
    picture” or they are booked years into the future. I did
    see that Dr. Billy Crook has a book you can buy on his
    website for $30.00 dollars listing all doctors who treat
    candida, but I suspect I already know who the doctors
    in this area are. I’m going to be making the rounds
    again. I’m hoping this time I can convince them to work
    with me within my budget.
    Be sure to give yourself time. It takes time for your
    body to clear itself up. (I consider that to be about four
    months.) Watch your diet, that should make it easier.
    When necessary repeat the following: “no pain ,no
    gain”. Remember that other people who have gone
    through it admit that it was worth it.
    Gosh, I can’t believe you had no healthy flora. Do you
    think that having no “good” intestianl flora is what
    causes IBS?
    Do you have CFS? Women with CFS have a greater
    incidence of develping endometriosis. Lately I’ve been
    rereading the Endometriosis Association’s program for
    treating autoimmune disease. As well as treating
    systemic candida they recommend treating allergies
    -detection and then avoidance and
    desensitization-because a large number of endometriosis
    patients have allergies. They also recommend testing
    hormone levels- DHEA, cortisol, testosterone and
    thyroid. These hormone levels have been found to be
    irregular in CFS patients as well as endometriosis
    patients.
    I felt excellent when I was on a low sugar diet similar to
    that for candida, but there were some things that seemed
    to get worse. I wonder if I needed to do more than just
    the get rid of the candida. Maybe my hormones needed
    balancing.
    This is what the Endometriosis Assoc. had to say about
    their treatment:
    “You will not be getting at the root of the problem if
    you do not include allergy management and
    desensitization in your treatment. (Hormone
    balancing,...,is also crucial to undoing the
    immune/endocrine derangement which can lead to so
    much damage.) A number of physicians have become
    attuned to the Candida problem but if all they do is
    prescribe an antifungal, they’re doing very little more
    than physicians who prescribe antibiotics where
    underlying allergy is the real problem.”
    I personally feel that a virus is the underlying problem,
    but because of the similarity in symptoms it seems that
    the Endometriosis Association’s treatment might also be
    good for CFS patients.
  8. karen2002

    karen2002 New Member

    Thanks so much for your post! I feel so fortunate to have found this Doc. I went through the Dr. Mill from Hell--before I found him. I think he is wonderful, yes, we have talked about every system in my body, that has gone askew. He is very well informed. I get positive affirmation from those who are "in the know" here and in other fms/cfs forums, when I have relayed his opinions and treatments, thus far. He is willing to discuss all options, including costs, benefits, and drawbacks. He is very thorough. I think what I appreciate the most is his willingness to listen to the patient, their ideas, and discussing their research findings. Additionally, he treats with conventional meds, and alternative.
    No----Zip no healthy flora. The theory is that the overabundance of the candida, for so many years, leads to abrasion, and irritation of the walls in the intestinal tract--eventually making it permeable to larger pathogens which should not be able to pass.
    It took me eons to finally get a dx, when I was going thru my doctor quest (better yet nightmare). Although compared to the situations I have heard here is was of short duration. I believe I have had cfs for quite sometime, with the onset of fms during that hospitilization I mentioned in my first post.
    More extensive hormone work up is next on the list. I have already been through a very complete gynecological exam, with a dabbling of hormone investigation with that. None under the scrutiny of this doctor though. We are just trying to work through each problem as it arises. Last appointment we discussed allergies, as well, its on the "to do list". Its so wonderful to have an advocate--
    Thank you ohmyaching for taken the time to write, I really appreciate it! Lots of great information.
    Karen
  9. jan a.

    jan a. New Member

    I too have had years of uti's and am on constant antibiotics for it or I get so sick if I go off of them...I too have yeast problems...my question is what is mannose?? you said it prevents uti's...has it really worked and how long have you been on it? sounds interesting and would love to get off antibiotics for this since Im on other antibiotics for mycoplasmas..thanks for any info...love jan a.
  10. goldie1

    goldie1 New Member

    For a great source of information about fibromyalgia caused by fungus as well as other health issues check the iknowthecause website. This is the web site for the program "Your Health" with host Doug Kaufmann on the Family network. He has a book, "The Fungus Link" which offers all the information you'll need along with a diet plan. I had gone every route available for fibro and found it had a fungus ideology. I used Nystatin and Diflucan for a short period of time then followed with olive leaf extract which is an anti-fungal. I have taken probiotics to repair the gut.Things don't happen overnight but there will be marked improvement. In about six months time most of my pain is gone and I'm not doped up on drugs. I now can sleep without sleeping pills or any anti-depressants. I also found that I am hypothyroid and am starting to take Synthoid. In my case, I believe that the fibro was an end result caused by my hypothyroidism in part due to a compromised immune system from using antibiotics. I started taking antibiotics at age six. I'm now a 47 year old/young that is busy with eight horses,my own decorating/remodeling business as well as gardening and everything else around the house. I found the worst things to do were taking it easy and sleep as much as I could. This caused me to loose all of my strength and gained weight. I'm back to lifting 50-60 pound bales of hay instead of 5 pounds. I hope this will help others by avoiding years of misery.
  11. AnnetteP

    AnnetteP New Member

    I'm so glad you found a dr. to treat you holistically; its the beginning of a wonderful journey for you. I'm sure you've read a little about my candida story, so having "been there" and done EVERYTHING, I will give you some suggestions of things I learned along the way (I hope they help):

    *If your lab work showed the strain is resistant to Nystatin, then it should work well. However, be prepared to switch to another anti-fungal since yeast is known to become resistant to Nystatin, over time. (I took Sporanox for 6 months----yes you heard that right lol----and my liver is beautiful, thanks to NAC, and my yeast went from the highest rating to "in balance.") Make sure you are taking something to protect your liver, like NAC or milk thistle.

    *To help with cravings, follow a diet like Dr. Atkins'. I was just saying to a friend this weekend, that if I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I would choose Atkins, keeping in mind the foods I can and cannot eat. The reason I say this is that I find you may have less die off with more fat/protein. I was very weak because I didn't eat enough protein. But, Dr. Atkins gives you the information you need to feel good about eating a lot of protein and fat and very little carbs, mostly in the form of veggies. You don't have to eat to lose weight, but the premise is the same as the candida diet. Most of his food suggestions are perfectly acceptable on a candida diet, with a few exceptions. That's why I think you should have a food list in front of you, in addition to following his book. BTW, he even discusses candida in his book. I had joined a couple of online lists for yeast and noticed some people were using Atkins. I didn't know anything about it, so I didn't try it. But, now I have read it, am eating that way, and I feel VERY energetic. In fact, I found I had zero withdrawals from sugar...my friend who is also on this diet said the same thing.

    *Make sure you take chromium...it helps stablilze sugar and that can affect your cravings. Dr. Atkins diet is geared towards balancing sugar levels and I think that's why you don't crave/have withdrawals as badly as other diets.

    Good luck and I hope this helps,
    Annette
  12. AnnetteP

    AnnetteP New Member

    I just want to add that when I started on natural anti-fungals I followed the strictest of diets for about 4 months. Then I had the Great Smokies test, only to find my dieting and my herbs had done NOTHING to my yeast level. When I went on Sporanox, I ate anything I wanted and my yeast fell from 4+ to 1+. Having said that I am in no way implying you should eat junk. But, I think some of the diets are too harsh and we are depriving ourselves of things we really are able to have. If you are familiar with the glycemic index, it would help with your food selections.

    If your dr. is putting you on a strong thyroid hormone, that should also help control the yeast. When our hormones are out of whack, it can make the battle that much more difficult.

    So, for me, the use of Armour and Sporanox allowed me to eat whatever I wanted to eat, and I still got better. I won't tell you what I ate, but lets just say I put my meds to the test! lol

    Good luck,
    Annette
  13. wander

    wander New Member

    Karen,
    the detos helped get rid or the systemic candica and detoxing more than once a year is individual maybe once a year will be enough. we all respond differently. Detoxing again the second time I was stronger and didn;t have a hard time but got rid of all the toxins that stay in our muscles. This kind of treatment has been around for many thousands of years try to do some research on it. It is a form of alternative or complimentary medicine . It can make a difference in your life. stay openminded and find someomne who knows homeopathic detoxing and that you havr fibro. Good luck Where do you live. My chiropracter helped me as wella s an m.d. who pratcices both chinise and traditional medicine. Wander
    Be sure to stay on the pro biotics.[This Message was Edited on 11/10/2002]
  14. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Whichever term you want to use, it all boils down to the same thing. Whenever a treatment kills of massive amounts of parasites/pathogens in the body, they turn toxic before the body can eliminate them. This can really make you feel crappy. Drink lots of fluids to help flush them out.

    I have "little" Herxes every time my Doxycycline makes a big hit on the mycoplasmas, but nothing like the original Herx from hell when I started them. The sicker you feel, the better you know the drug or treatment is working. It's the old, "It's gotta get worse before it gets better."

    Love, Mikie
  15. robin

    robin New Member

    HI ALL, I HAVE READ THE MESSAGES FROM
    SEVERAL OF YOU WITH UTI'S WHICH I HAD.
    AM ON MAINTENANCE DRUGS WHICH YOU HAD TOO
    BUT IT SEEMS THEY ENDED UP GIVING YOU MORE
    PROBLEMS IN THE END INCLUDING GUT LEAK??
    I'LL HAVE TO LOOK THAT UP ON SEARCH ENGING.
    I KWENT THRU 2 YRS OF MONTHLY HELL WITH UTI'S
    BEFORE MY DR PUT ME ON ONE ANIT-BIOTIC, THEN
    ANOTEHR, THEN ANOTHER TO TRY TO KEEP ME FROM
    HAVING A RETURN.
    I JOTTED DOWN MANNOSE TO ASK MY DR. ABOUT
    PLUS NYSTATIN AND PROBIOTICS.....AGAIN BACK
    TO SEARCH ENGINE AS I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ANY
    OF THEM, BUT AM NOW CONCERNED THAT LONG TERM
    ANTI-BIOTICS MIGHT GET ME IN DEEPER WATER
    IN ANOTHER AREA???
    I NEVER HAD ONE UTI TILL I GOT THE FIBROK.
    DAMN THE FIBRO...MORE TROUBLE THAN ITS WORTH.

    ANY RESPONSE TO MY RESPONSE HERE IS WELCOME.

    ROBIN
  16. robin

    robin New Member

    I'M GOINT TO MAKE AN APPT WITH MY GYN AND ASK
    HER ABOUT CLEANSING MY SYSTEM AND HOW SHE MIGHT
    CHECK TO SEE IF IT IS THIS CANDID STUFF. I HAVE
    MANY OF THE SYMPTOMS MENTIONED AND WONDERING
    IF MY PCP IS TRATING ME FOR THE WRONG THING!
    HOW I'D LOVE TO BE FREE OF "JOCK ITCH" RASHES,
    AND A BUNCH OF OTEHR STUFF.
    PROBABLY NO ACCIDENT I FINALLY GOT TO THIS BOARD
    AND LOOKED ONLY FOR RESPONSES TO UTI'S....

    HAVE WE BEEN SUFFERING DUE TO WRONG DIAGNOSIS???
    WILL BE PLEASED WITH ANY RESPONSES TO THIS REPLY
    MESSAGE :>)

    ROBIN
  17. Fibromiester

    Fibromiester New Member

    ~~~As far as Antibiotics go- I have been put on them in the past for various reasons...Recently, I was put on Keflex, and a week later had a roaring Yeast infection, Thrush, and my IBS was worse. I'm being treated for each, but I intend to change my diet to a Candida-UNfriendly diet!
    My question to you, Robin, is~ if you are NOT showing any signs of IBS, or diarrhea,gas,bloating after you eat, etc- Then maybe you don't have to worry about Candida? Or DO you get Yeast infections,etc? ARE you allergic to any foods? If so, then I would look into it...
    ps.let's put this back on the Candida Board
  18. 2BPainfree

    2BPainfree New Member

    Where is your Doc located? He sounds like a gem!
    Good luck with everything.

    Susan B.
  19. Fibromiester

    Fibromiester New Member

    ~~~I would REALLY like this discussion moved to the CANDIDA Board~~~then more people could benefit~~~
    Anyway- Susan,I don't know which anti-fungal is less toxic to the liver, but I heard Milk Thistle is good to take. For the Sweet Cravings? Yes, it's the chromiun picolinate and another mineral, I believe, starting with a Z. I don't have my notes handy...a deficiency. Make sure you take good suppliments,and enzymes, probiotics, garlic is good,CoQ10, Caprylic acid and try Olive Leaf Extract...and a new diet!(see the CANDIDA Board). Do research. How long are you going to be on those anti-fungals? Enough is Enough!
    Good luck to you, and God Bless!
    BTW- I also read somewhere that Fungus Over-growth may Cause FM....Hmmmmm!
    Fibromiester
  20. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    ProHealth now carries this probiotic which is the best one I have ever used. Just refrigerate after opening.

    I have been taking them preventively for years as I was lucky enough to have heard about Leaky Gut Syndrome before I ever started taking antibiotics. The antibiotics themselves make my IBS go away and it returns when I try to cycle off them. I've been on the antibiotics for 1 1/2 years.

    It's a sin docs don't tell people about taking digestive enzymes and probiotics as preventive medicine years before they develop Leaky Gut and food allergies.

    Love, Mikie