Catseye/Karen - Low Anti-Diuretic Hormone

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Chootik, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. Chootik

    Chootik New Member

    Hi Karen.

    How are you? Haven't talked to you in a while. Hope you're doing well.

    I was just reading a post about frequent urination and Low Anti-Diuretic Hormone and wanted to get an update from you? Are you still on this hormone? Did you resolve this issue?

    I'm asking because I've been dealing with a mild case of this for some time, but it's really frustrating. I keep getting up at night with the heart palpations and have to go to bathroom, drink water and it's just so annoying!

    I'm currently doing the Electrolyte solution during the day but that isn't enough. I want to go see an Endo and see if I can get a prescription for the Anti-Diuretic horomone? I was just wondering if this will fix the problem or do I have to take the hormone forever?

    I'm not sure so if you get a chance let me know how you're doing with this now?

    Thanks a bunch.

  2. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Hi Maryam,

    I'm doing great! I still use the hormone every night, but I should try stopping soon. The nighttime urination problem is resolving itself just like every other problem and symptom I've been having for the past 5 years. I still get up a couple of times during the night, but I don't drink lots of water anymore or have the pounding heartbeat. At my worst, I was going through 5-6 big glasses of water every night - they were probably 1 1/2 cups each, and peeing every hour or hour and a half. Now it's one glass of water and 2 times getting up. I have actually slept through the whole night without going a couple of times in the past couple of months.

    The hormone should fix the immediate problems of peeing all night long and getting dehydrated. And it will let you sleep because it's restoring a hormone you're low on. It tells the kidneys to recirculate the water they filter back into the body instead of sending it to the bladder to be urinated out. So what happened to me was that I got really dehydrated because my bladder would fill up and then I'd have to pee and drink water to replenish what the kidneys eliminated. The hormone will only do this one thing, make the water stay in your body. So it will fix the nighttime peeing and dehydration but that's all. If you don't fix the problem of why you aren't producing the hormone, then theoretically you'll have to take it forever. But the reason mine is resolving is because I'm fixing what's wrong with the whole body rather than chasing down each symptom like medical doctors do. For one thing, I'm getting digestion working again, which is making it possible to assimilate and absorb all the nutrition into my body that I'm ingesting, and since my body is finally getting what it needs, it's fixing itself. It's really nice to be on the way out of this mess. Whew!

    I never did run down exactly why the body is not producing antidiuretic hormone. I mean I couldn't trace it back to specific nutrients or metabolic processes that were specific enough to help me figure out how I could fix it. I looked long and hard and got nowhere. So I'm very glad it's resolving itself otherwise I wouldn't know what to do about it other than keep taking the hormone. It sounds like you'd benefit from the hormone if you can convince a doctor to give it to you. They don't like people telling them what they need. At the least, you'd sleep better and not get dehydrated.

    It's really expensive, too. Maybe call a pharmacy beforehand and see how much the pills cost versus the nasal spray - then you can ask the doctor for the cheaper one - ask for desmopressin. That's the synthetic version of the actual hormone which is vasopressin. They used to use vasopressin from pigs, but now they just use the desmopressin. I use the nasal spray. A couple of months ago, the price here just came down to about a third of what it was before. It used to be about $60 for the spray which lasted about 4 weeks. Now I get twice as much for about 2/3 the price. Hopefully, the same thing has happened up there.

    The only cotraindication I was aware of is if you have high blood pressure because it can increase it. I used to have blood pressure that was more on the low side so that wasn't a concern for me. Right now, my blood pressure is normal.

    take care and good luck with the doctor
  3. Chootik

    Chootik New Member

    I'm so gald that you're doing so well! You totally deserve it. You have worked hard to get here and I think you are going to be all well soon.

    As for me, it seems at least for now I might need the Hormone. I was actually researching it and it seems to be dependent on 9 Amino Acids to be synasized in the body. So probably the Amino Acids that you were taking were helping make some of this in the body.

    So do you think if there is more water in the body that shoudl help with Blood Volume? It seems that would help. I know that is also an issue for me, since I get the Palps if I'm walking or standing too long! Eh.. all these issues!

    Either way, I think your aproach is very good. I am finally done with ABX and can adress this stuff. I am going to see what I can do about this and then will do the Dr. Farr test to fix the digestion and hopefully that will help with the Blood Volume and the Anti-Diuretic stuff too.

    Anyways, hope you're having a great Monday and happy holidays!
  4. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    What really helped me with blood volume was a combination of things:

    the electrolyte stamina

    lots of sea salt, in water and on my food

    Krebs Cycle Chelates - chelated mineral supplement for maximum mineral absorption

    And having enough water in the body is not going to automatically mean the cells are going to be able to utilize it. The cells have to be able to take in water, so I also used the amino acids responsible for cell hydration - glutamine, taurine and creatine.

    All the above did wonders for my pounding heart and heart palps. My blood volume problem doesn't bother me anymore. I still drink the electrolyte stamina and take minerals and aminos, but not in the same huge amounts I used to. I think I still have a bit to go before I completely stop all of these, and the stamina is the only thing besides water that I can drink, anyway, so I'll be drinking that until I can add back some other drinks to my diet. Water gets a little boring sometimes when it's all you can have. I'd sure like to have a glass of wine now and then, but for right now Farr said no so I guess it's no. I'm not taking any chances on losing the ground that I've regained so far. When the tests say everything is working like it should, then it's time to consider what I can try different.

    Just FYI, I have read just today about a way to get over IBS. It's surprisingly simple - just eliminate all starches. That's funny because that was one of the things I was sure was contributing to leaky gut and preventing it or slowing it from healing up - mostly because starches can't be digested properly and end up fermenting and causing other problems. So it certainly makes sense, I just never paid much attention to IBS before. But I probably should have, it's another gut disorder which is common with our problems. I noticed considerable improvement when I cut out the remaining starches from my diet that I was eating - cashews, sunflower seeds, pumpkin and zucchini. So if you want a headstart on a good diet to follow for this, then get off all starches and also off wheat and dairy, if you haven't already. Grains are basically starches, and so are carrots, potatoes and other root vegetables. You can look up what other foods have starch, but the nuts, pumpkin and zucchini were what I was eating.

    Hope your Christmas was cheerful, and Happy New Year to you! And good luck with everything

  5. findmind

    findmind New Member

    May I ask what you eat? I love so many of the things you mentioned! How can zucchini be a starch?!

    thanks a lot,
  6. Chootik

    Chootik New Member

    Ok so I'm going to up the Minerals and do more salt.

    The only thing is I read the other day if one is low on Anti-Diuretic Hormone, then that means there is TOO much salt in the body, so I wonder if putting in more salt would be good? But then again, you are the proof that it works so I'm giong to go with that.

    I'm having a great time for the holidays and can't wait for 2009! I think it's going to be a great year!

  7. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    findmind, dang, I answered you this morning and it didn't stick! I just got to Florida and I need to go to bed soon. I'll have to elaborate tomorrow or the next day, but quickly about the starch thing. It's more like a starch intolerance. Zucchini doesn't have much starch, but I was eating tons of it so I stopped it and the pumpkin, which I also gorged on, which has some starch, too. I was trying to find anything that would encourage or add to leaky gut symptoms. Starches are supposedly hard to digest and they will encourage fermentation which feeds the bad pathogens which are harming the gut lining. I want to do everything I possibly can, as soon as I can, to get over this. If I think a food is even remotely "iffy", I'm avoiding it. If I do everything I can and stick to it as long as it takes, then when I'm completely over this I can worry about the iffy foods.

    So what do I eat now? Not much! Chicken, broccoli, cauliflower (which I'm giving up now because I looked up a couple of things right quick to answer you and found that cauliflower has more starch than I first thought), bell peppers, red onions, garlic (which has a lot of starch so thank heavens it's so small), some beef, fish and eggs. It's hard to find some hard facts about the starch content of foods. Some say almonds have none, some say a little, so I gave up all the nuts except for almonds. Sunflower seeds and cashews have a lot and I was using lots of those in my dehydrated veggie batter.

    So I'm down to basically chicken, eggs and a few veggies. That's what I eat mostly, it's a very boring diet but it's healthy and tastes great so I don't mind it every time. The broccoli goes into a soup with chicken, bell peppers, onions and garlic, so it's green but doesn't taste like broccoli at all. Which is good because I hate broccoli unless it's drenched in butter and garlic, and I can't have butter. Anybody who says broccoli tastes good should go look at the gum aisle in the grocery store. There is no broccoli flavored chewing gum and with good reason - you don't want to barf when you chew gum.

    If you google for starch intolerance, you'll see the articles I found that say to give up starches if you have IBS because they may be a big factor in it. Kind of like the problems seen with gluten, starches have a bad effect on some people so they need to avoid all starches.

    chootik, I don't know about the salt regulation, I don't remember reading that but it's been a long time since I read up on that hormone. Did it say salt regulation and that it prevented it from getting too high? It's not the only thing regulating salt or I'd be dead! Where you read that, did it say the precise mechanism of how it regulates the salt? If they have a detailed explanation about the mechanism of how the hormone works, I'd like to see it. It was hard to find the inner workings of the kidneys. I looked all over for a long time last year and the year before. I've since given up and since it's resolving itself, I pretty much haven't bothered to even think about it. But I definitely needed salt when I was doing all the peeing. I remember the first time I put a little bit of sea salt in some water and sipped it. My body just went "ahh", it tasted so good and I could just tell I needed it. I think it also has to do with the supps for hydration, the creatine, taurine and glutamine. I think they help the cells take in water.

    okay, it's late and I have to get up real early and get on another plane

  8. Chootik

    Chootik New Member

    How are you? Sorry for the late reply. I didnt' check the site for a few day. Hope you had a good time in FL and had a good flight.

    Anyways, I found the info on Anti-Diruetic Hormone on Wikipedia. Check this site:

    On there it says that when the ADH gets low then the body has too much salt, but I'm not sure if I agree. Since when I tested for the ADH I also tested Aldestrone, and that hormone was high. The Doc said that my body was trying to keep some salt in so maybe I was low on salt.

    Anyways I printed the above and will read before I go see the Endo. The Lyme Doc wants to check the urine volume to see if I have Diabetic Insipedus. Either way I'm doing the minerals and electrolyte you recommended. I think I have a real issue of not getting enough minerals and amino acids and that could be why the Hormone is low. I also read that alcohol can lower the production of Vasopressin. Now I know I have yeast issues and Ammonia issues and all these Neurotoxins could have effected the Hormone.

    This would make sense why the Methalation supplements can help this as well.

    Anyways, let me know what you think.

  9. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    I don't agree, either. I think it's much more complicated. My frequent nighttime urination isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. I'm taking tons of supplements to keep up the body's needs while I fix the guts. Lots of amino acids and minerals are included. I still like a glass of salt water now and then. I think it may be to counteract potassium, even, and so I like to add a bit to my electrolyte stamina sometimes. I had read where Cheney recommended that we should have about as much sodium as potassium in our electrolyte drinks to help with low blood volume. And the electrolyte stamina has more potassium so I just add a pinch or so of Himalayan crystal or celtic sea salt.

    I copied lots of leaky gut bits and pieces from all over for my notes, but I just found an article that explains intestinal hyperpermeability pretty well, I'll post it now. It's got a lot of big words in it, but it's what's happening in many of us. Problem is, when people ask their doctor about it, he/she is most likely not going to know anything about it and so they will most likely lie and say it can't be our problem just because they can't treat it.

    I'm trying to figure out the fastest and most aggressive treatment plan for it to see if there's anything else I can do besides what I'm doing but it's a really complicated problem in a very complex system. I think the methylation protocol may help, depending on how bad the gut is, but I think if the liver is overloaded with toxins and the digestive organs (intestines, liver, pancreas, stomach) are caught in a vicious cycle, it's going to take more than just those supps to overcome it. Just make sure you don't waste all your time and money chasing down individual symptoms, focus on someone who can interpret a stool test and knows how to treat the guts/immune system. Anything else is just a bandaid.

    BTW, I'm still on vacation and having a wonderful time! Temperature is in the seventies today!