Cause of Fibro found

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by moi482001, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. moi482001

    moi482001 Member

    Has anyone read the article in the Guardian Post saying that researchers have found the cause of Fibro.? Apparently it's because we have too many blood vessels in our hands. Is there any evidence for this discovery and have any of you heard of this?
  2. Willow77

    Willow77 Member

  3. Nanie46

    Nanie46 Moderator

  4. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    The problem is not too many blood vessels but one of the symptoms of FM and indeed some cases of ME is early shunting of blood across venous shunts so denying some of the sub cutaneous muscles their oxygen and blood flow causing a build up of lactate which is not removed quickly enough. This shunting is under hormonal and immunological control. So very probably the "faulty" shunting is being caused by disturbances in the immune system.

    This is probably also causing the peripheral neuropathy which is also a symptom.

    The extension of these results is that it is possible that the "faulty" shunting occurs in more places than the periphery but this has yet to be shown.

    Like Nanie46 says, FM is probably caused by a underlying problem which could vary from person to person, some being infections. This neuropathy and vessel problem is a symptom. Once the immune system is aberrant then all manner of symptoms arise. What seems to happen is that researchers seem to focus on the narrow area they are studying and then propose that there finding "explains" the illness. BIG ERROR! Reason: lack of knowledge about immunology, which is a problem in medicine generally.

    There is so much we have to learn about immunology and infections, particularly in the gut and the nervous system. For example a recent study (in mice) showed that after infection with salmonella a battle goes on between our good bacteria and the salmonella as well as other opportunistic bacteria which normally do a good job but do "bad" things in the presence of the salmonella. One interesting finding is that some mice end up with prolonged fatigue as a consequence. This may be a result of a disturbance in the fucose pathways. Fucose is very important in delivering energy substrate into cells and when disturbed can result in widely disturbed cell function. Hence something originating in the gut can cause system wide malfunction not obviously related to the gut.
  5. Willow77

    Willow77 Member

  6. gb66

    gb66 Active Member

    Jam, I'm sorry to hear about you relative. I hope you can get lots of rest and that you won't have more pain from all the stress. Take care of yourself. GB66
  7. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    The most important function and effect of substance P is on the neurokinin 1 receptor.
    Substance P is a pro-inflammatory neuro-peptide and signals the inflammation via the neurokinin1 receptor. The idea that substance P amplifies pain came from the "central sensitization theory" of FM and ME. Raised Substance P is related to neural inflammation which generates pain, actually it is thus neuropathic pain, which means originating within the nerves themselves.

    The elevated levels of substance P are further evidence that FM and ME are neuro-immune "inflammatory" conditions. Those people with spinal or brain stem injury, such as stenosis are thought to have neurological inflammation as a result of the stenosis. In addition, there is some evidence that some people with FM and many with ME have infections, both systemic and neural which are also elevating Substance P. However some people with ME don't have much pain and those people generally do not have raised levels of Substance P.

    Substance P is also elevated in people with major depression, this is why major depression is thought to be a neuro-inflammatory disease. (Remember that depression itself is not one illness, but is a symptom set of underlying illness).

    Another interesting correlate is the relationship between raised Substance P and NKC released Interferon gamma. Both Substance P and IFN-gamma are neuro-inflammatory. Chronically raised IFN-gamma is associated with mitochondrial dysfunction in ME and in FM. Whether Substance P or IFN-gamma are raised first is not known but they are probably both raised together.
  8. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Thanks, Ian. Over the last 13 years, I've heard soooo many "causes" of our illnesses but they all turn out to be symptoms related to our illnesses and not proved to be "the cause." I don't understand why so many researchers do not understand the difference in relationships vs. causality. Heck, we learned that our first year in college.

    Your clarifications are priceless in helping us to understand what is going on with our illnesses and symptoms. Thank you.

    Love, Mikie
  9. Nanie46

    Nanie46 Moderator

    Ian said, "...What seems to happen is that researchers seem to focus on the narrow area they are studying and then propose that there finding "explains" the illness. BIG ERROR!..."

    Perfectly said, Ian! This happens all the time. Thanks for all you contribute.
  10. idunne1005

    idunne1005 Member

    Yes, I've seen it in a couple of places, have made copies for my doctors. Mismanaged blood flow by blood vessels in our hands (and I saw comment possibly in the soles of our feet, as well) makes some kind of sense. More than anything else I've seen.
  11. idunne1005

    idunne1005 Member

    Wish they'd develop affordable blood tests to measure substance P that insurance would pay for.
  12. sunflowergirl

    sunflowergirl Active Member

    Jam.....I'm sorry for your loss. Is this your x SIL? I know you've mentioned he's very sick with cancer.
  13. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Nanie, you are right. Figure in the fact that research facilities are under pressure to produce results in order to get more funding and you take away any objectivity.

    Love, Mikie