CFS: Antivirals; another update

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by ladybugmandy, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    hi all. after many days of severe sickness, i seem to be improving again today.

    i don't know whats going on....just happy for the good day.

  2. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    AV's can cause one to feel sick when the viruses are dying off. Then, when the body is rid of a lot of them, one will feel better. I am on Nattokinase to get rid of the excess fibrin and on Acyclovir to kill off any viruses which have been hiding out in the fibrin. I've been detoxing as the viruses die off. I was on Doxycycline for a while and had a big Herx as the bacteria, which had been hiding in the fibrin, died off.

    Also, the AV's, themselves, can cause side effects. I hope you continue to feel better. Sometimes, it just has to get worse before it gets better.

    Love, Mikie
  3. wendysj

    wendysj New Member

    Hey there! I'm happy to hear you are doing better! I say do something you really enjoy today. Keep us posted!

  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

    Im currently on famvir, probably a month, am starting to feel better especially the brain fog, did have a period where aches and pains increased this was after first week of AV, also my body clock as done a complete flip of late, im putting this down to the AVs and see some improvement. My question for Mikie, i understand what a herx reaction is but i thought AVs dont kill the virus directly but stop them replicating, so if anything the virus may die of "old age". but process isnt speeded up. I have also had a herx reaction from doxy in the past and it works in a similar way, by stopping bacteria from reproducing, not directly killing them. Its just a question thats been on my mind for awhile and thought i would throw it out there for an answer. Something definately happens when starting treatment, but when you look at the pharmacology of the drug, a die off reaction doesnt make sense.
  5. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    hi all. thank you for your kind posts:)

    when i look back, i see a pattern which i havent heard anyone else describe.

    since i have been on valtrex (and sometimes valcyte), i have had long periods of severe illness followed by a period of improvement.....then again a period of severe illness followed by a period of SLIGHTLY more improvement than the last time. this has been going on for almost a year.

    can die-off still be happening this long into treatment?

    thank you

  6. emmally

    emmally New Member

    I am going thru the same thing. Periods of bad followed by periods of good which are better than the last period of feeling better. I take this as a very good sign that we feel better each time because our bodies are getting stronger each time. My periods of bad are also shorter in time. The last big one I had lasted almost a month and lately they are lasting around 1-2 days.
  7. stschn

    stschn New Member

    I will only speak of what happens in my case. Every time I had a period of good follow by bad I realize when I look back that when I feel good I tend to overdo (and it doesn't take much for me.)This time it is not physical but emotional stress.
  8. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    You are right; the Doxycycline does not outright kill bacteria but it still produces Herxes when there is significant dieoff of bacteria. I have read papers and articles from docs using AV's to treat our illnesses and they have all talked about a Herx-like reaction. I'm not sure about the viruses' dying of old age but something causes them to die off in large numbers.

    I am having Herx-like reactions to the Nattokinase when pathogens are exposed in the bloodstream as the fibrin dissolves. It is my understanding that one's own immune system will often attack them at that point.

    It's been so long since I have done much research into these things. I do know, though, that some of us do have the purging and detoxing when taking AV's and ABX. I just don't know the details or mechanics of how this occurs.

    Love, Mikie
  9. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

    I think I have read somewhere possibley a dr lerner article that valtrex at a standard dose of 500mg twice a day stops virus from replicating but the higher doses he use 1000mg 4 times a day has a direct effect on killing viruses. There is alot of stuff out there that cant be explained??? Im taking a standard dosage of famvir 250mg twice a day and have experienced some herx type reaction or a stirring up of those nasties, but also had some good improvement in many areas especially brain fog. When i took valtrex 500mgx2 day i got nothing good or bad which is a pity cause its that bit cheaper then famvir. I also had similar reaction like famvir when taking inosine(amino acid version of immunovir) but effects didnt last long, think its a medication that you have to take good breaks from to get it to keep working.
    Cheers good luck !
  10. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Good luck with your treatment. Yes, I agree--the drugs need to be pulsed in order to get the maximum benefit from them. I will finish up this week with the AV. I am really detoxing, so something is dying off.

    I am sooooo glad to have the pain, tingling, and numbness in my legs gone. I wore the compression hose on the plane and that really helped. I also wear them to work.

    Happy Holidays to you.

    Love, Mikie
  11. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    hello all. happy holidays:)

    i have a question: won't pulsing antimicrobials cause resistant strains to emerge?

  12. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

    I have thought the same thing, but when antivirals are used to treat other herpees type viruses they are used intermittently, like when an outbreak starts they run a 5-7 day course of AVs, but people dont seem to become resistant to them. 2 days on 2 days off something like that u would think would suppress viruses(if this doesnt cause resistance) and be easier on my bank account, not cheap being sick, lol.
  13. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Doxycycline is also pulsed with my treatment plan. One pulses off until symptoms recur. Then, one pulses back on until one can stay off of it permanently. If the mycoplasmas reactivate, one goes back on the Doxy. Same with the AV's.

    Perhaps a lot depends on the pathogen and type of AV or ABX one uses.

    Love, Mikie