CFS/ME and oxygen?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by viks, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. viks

    viks New Member

    Hello, I have severe(ish) ME and live in the uk, earlier this week I had an endoscopy under sedation with 02, it had a strange effect on me, I went in strugglign to keep my eyes open, could manage to answer questions but not feeling well enough for conversation etc. I went in like that and came out chatting away feeling a lot better unlike everyone else on the ward who did the oppersite.

    Anyway i was telling my ME physio and she was saying i might benefit from a tank of 02 to see if that would make me feel better and to ask my GP. My GP doesnt deal with obvious things (for example ive had daily vomiting for the past 8 years but is only now being looked into). I was wondering if you knew of any research about the benefit of oxygen in people with ME? Im sure i heard about it ages ago but can't remember the details and would love to be able to back up my request with some info.

    Thank you,

  2. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    HBOT as it called has had great success in boosting the immune system. It isn't a cure for ME but I've can feel a boost from it.

    We live in a 21% oxygen environment. Going to 100% O2 can only saturate the red blood cells since at our normal pressure of 14.7psi (sea level) only they can carry oxygen.

    At a higher pressure, the clear part of the blood, the plasma, also carries oxygen.

    I use a home hyperbaric oxygen unit and can feel a boost. It goes to 7psi, 1.5 Atmospheres or the equivalent of 17 feet of water depth. I get oxygen from a concentrator unit.

    I think that a bottle of oxygen should be tried, if you feel better, ask your doc about HBOT.
  3. jasminetee

    jasminetee Member

    I think it may have been the anesthesia that helped you feel better. I spent a few hours in an oxygen bar breathing O2 and it didn't do anything for me.

    Then again we all react differently to stuff. Also, what may work for you one time might not another with ME. But you could try it.
  4. karinaxx

    karinaxx New Member

    i am very interested in all the information given by you, but do not understand this fully.
    Does this mean if i go diving with a normal diving oxygen bottle to 17 feet i will feel actually better?
    I often wondering if i could go diving at all, since i love snorkling and taking pictures under water.
    Suffered from severe ME/CFIDS and snorkling, movung in the water has helped me a great deal to get better.
    Pleas give me some more detailed expl. on this


    By the way, i also drive a bike.
  5. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    My neighbor is a master diver. Even though it would be so simple to just dive with pure oxygen, the risk of passing out under pure oxygen is too high, so its a big diving taboo. It never has happened at 17 feet of water depth but medical rules are kept as simple as possible.

    17 feet of water depth = 1.5 Atmospheres = 7psig (on a gauge) = 21.7 psia (absolute - means compared to the vacuum of space)

    We live at 1 Atmosphere (sea level) = 0 psig ( on a gauge) = 14.7 psia = ~ 30 inches of mercury on a Barometer. Pressure changes with weather. There is less pressure with altitude.

    Even with diving air bottles, oxygen will dissolve into the plasma and help.

    Movement in the water especially is great for lymph circulation. Blood cells go thru single file through the capillaries, but plasma leaks between the cells and gets collected by the lymph vessels. The only way lymph can circulate is by body movement. It travel through lymph nodes and finally back to the heart where it gets mix in with our blood and back into circulation. Lymph nodes will grab infections and swell up as it fight them.

    Beyond 7 psi, in the USA, a hyperbaric nurse shall be present in case a person passes out. In a chamber, its OK, you its not fatal. The nurse just turn off the oxygen, you recover just fine. If you're diving however...

    There are many great websites on HBOT, hbot4u is one of my favorites, you can add on the w and dot com.

  6. jasminetee

    jasminetee Member

    When I had mild ME I used to go SCUBA diving. It was usually wonderful although one time I went down too far and I suffered a bit of the bends but I got through it without needing to go into a chamber.

    An interesting thing is that you're supposed to dive with a buddy and I usually dove with at least one other couple as well. Well, I would discuss with them how we all needed to conserve our air for as long as possible under the water and not come up until our tanks were really empty so we could dive as long as possible and everyone always agreed. I dove with different people all the time but always had the same outcome.

    They would all run out of air way before me. I usually had almost 1/2 a tank left. That tells me that my body was not utilizing the air the way theirs was. None of them ever had ME.


    [This Message was Edited on 07/09/2009]
  7. Jayna

    Jayna New Member

    Interesting about your tanks being half full, tee. I think you're right about your body not utilizing the air the way theirs were. It fits right in with our aerobic energy production systems being broken. No aerobic production, no demand to take oxygen out of the blood, shallower breathing.

    Years ago, on my first experience with scuba, I too was amazed at how wonderful I felt breathing with a tank. Later, during a crash, I had some respiratory testing done and my oxygen saturation was down to 66%. Breathing with a nasal cannula didn't bring it up to normal, but was better. It came up on its own over a few months as I recovered, so whatever mechanism was screwed up must have gradually re-set itself.

    Now I have a portable oxygen concentrator (non-pressure delivery) and use it when I'm walking around at home or doing work requiring brain focus. I go downhill after about 10 minutes standing up without oxygen, or an hour or so sitting down working. I think my brain has forgotten what signals the need for more oxygen, or my lungs have gotten used to not drawing much, or something.
  8. karinaxx

    karinaxx New Member

    thank you for your link. I checked it out, good information!



    I have heard this from others with ME and not using as much oxygen while diving as the others.
    somebody posted this before here.


  9. jasminetee

    jasminetee Member

    Jayna, that's interesting info. What made you decide to use O2?

    Hey k, that may have been me. lol
  10. skeptik2

    skeptik2 Member

    ...that 100% of his patients had oxygen toxicity! It's here on the site somewhere.

    I have COPD and with Cheney's findings, really worry about what would happen to me if I ever require oxygen.

  11. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    At higher pressures, the first usual sign of oxygen toxicity is pulmonary edema, fluid from the lungs. This hasn't happend to me, but if it did I was advised to take a 2 week break from a HBOT treatment.

    In the USA, the Navy was the diving experts and ran most of the testing with different air mixtures. Later this was handed over to ANDI. Ed Betts is the lead engineer on diving and hyperbarics, decompression. He is at ANDIHQ website.

    My master diver neighbor tells me that breathing technique is a huge factor in air usage. Slower, deeper breaths. Ppl get excited or anxious and use up a tank of air real quick. At 33 feet, a breath of air from the tank will contain the oxygen of 2 Atmospheres and so you need to breath even slower.

    Even in my hyperbaric chamber, the oxygen concentrator generates enuf O2 for deep, slow breaths. It takes time and patience. Yoga teaches deep breathing too.
  12. Jayna

    Jayna New Member

    teekay, it was sheer desperation. I was one small step from being stuck in a nursing home on complete bed rest by my doctor during a huge relapse a few years ago. Home oxygen was one thing she agreed I could try at home to see if it kept me out of the institution. It wasn't enough by itself, but with a Cflex machine for better pressure overnight it stopped my huge overnight oxygen troughs and helped me gradually get my brain back.

    skeptic2, if you have COPD, you're not going to be absorbing that much oxygen no matter how much pressure they put behind it. And anyway, Dr. Cheney's experiment was using 2.5 times the O2 pressure that is usually delivered by therapeutic oxygen systems. I'm not convinced he picked the right word to explain his concept, either. Like dietary fats and countless other substances, oxygen is vital to staying alive, but too much will destroy you.
  13. jasminetee

    jasminetee Member

    That's interesting. I'm glad it helps you so much. :)