CFS MUSCLE TWITCHES / MUSCLE FATIGUE OR WEAKNESS???

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by moreconfusedthanever, Sep 6, 2003.

  1. I've seen a few posts on muscle twitches and even replied to one myself recently. However I'm becoming increasingly worried about these. Muscle twitching seems to be an alarm symptom of a number of scary diseases (Huntigtons Disease and ALS for example) as well as being associated with CFS/FM.

    I have been experiencing muscle twitches (like a strong pulse under the skin) for about 6 weeks and I had them a few months back too but they seemed to go away but have returned. My Dr says they are just one of a number of bizzare synptoms that CFS (he calls it PVFS [= CFS basically]) has caused me.

    Would other people descibre their muscle symptoms as weakness or fatigue, or both? I think there is a difference but I don't really know how it's classified. I can 'feel' my arm/leg/hand muscles all the time, a bit like flu and they feel fatigued. I think this is fatigue. But I also find things heavy to lift, which makes me think weakness, or is this a consequence of fatigue that's just there all the time now? I get muscle aches and physical excertion can make them worse the next day and beyond, but then they seem to get back to they way they were (fatigued, achy etc). I don't seem to get FM type intense pain some people here describe, I would describe it more as aches.

    Sorry for the long post. It's just that the twitching plus other muscular symptoms worried me and I wondered if anyone had any definitions for muscle fatigue and how to tell if it's that or weakness? Or if anyone can identify with the symptoms I have as being typical of CFS?

    Thanks, MCTE
  2. HuggyMummy

    HuggyMummy New Member

    Sorry I can't help with twitches, but I can tell you that my FMS pain is exactly as you describe it - like having flu, achy and with no energy in my muscles. I too rarely experience the intense pain others describe, though I have done on occasions. The achiness and fatigue is considerably worse when I flare, but still vaguely 'there' when I'm 'well' (for me).

    I also find it very difficult to lift these days; even a full saucepan is often beyond me - even when not flaring (and I'm only 42!). This is one aspect that I'm attributing to FMS/CFS that is definately 'progressing', along with more regular and intense flares.

    Sorry I can't help you more; someone else will hopefully be able to help you with the twitches.

    Hugs
    Ruth
  3. mycatprint

    mycatprint New Member

    that HURT. Feels like someone has stabbed me with an ice pick for a second then it goes away. Not all are that bad, though. I have them happening randomly, all over my body. During a storm I feel like a string of Christmas tree lights has been threaded through all my muscles. lol I told the neurologist that and he just looked at me like I had just fallen off that tree! My GP says she has never heard of it before, but is taking me seriously and treating the symptoms.

    I switched from Welbutrin to Effexor (antidepressants), cut out the sudafed and benedryl and replaced those with Allegra (antihystamine) and Entex LA (decongestant) Stopped all Ibuprophen and Tylenol and replaced those with more Vioxx and Darvon (instead of darvocet which has acetominophen in it.) The twitches seem to be a little less noticable, and the frequency of the stabbinbg ones is less. But they aren't gone. and without the welbutrin -- I have more severe fatigue and brain fog. Everything is a trade off, huh?
    I, too, am very concerned about possible ALS and Huntington's Disease. I don't think my insurance will pay for the necessary testing though, so I will need to save up to get them. That is IF I can find a neurologist willing to do the test. the last one I went to had me stick out my tongue for 3 minutes, without closing my teeth on it, and said because I could do that he wasn't concerned. I felt like telling him that it is MY body, I live in it, and I AM concerned.... but it was a foggy day and I was intimidated so didn't speak up for myself. Just went home and did more research.

    If you learn more, be sure to tall me, ok?

    hugs from Cat
  4. annepat

    annepat New Member

    I have severe muscle spasms in my torso, weakness in arms and legs.

    Spasms started while on SSRI's and Wellbutrin-high doses and in combo.

    Have either of you been tested for viral titers, Myco or Lyme?

    Chronic Strep is also a possiblity.

    anne
  5. angeldust

    angeldust New Member

    Muscle twitching is common in neurological disorders, including CFS. Muscle fatigue/weakness is common too. I know people who had these symptoms as part of CFS and they have now fully recovered. If these symptoms get worse it means your doing too much. You can have CFS and no pain. What you have descibed is very typical of CFS - so no need to worry..... Tip - taking calcium (1000mg) and magnesium (400mg) might help.
  6. Thanks to people for replying to this. It is interesting that there are others who are worried about the twitching. What angeldust says is also intersting - I might look into the magnesium and calcium - if something could make this go away I'd be so happy.

    I'm still unsure of the difference between muscle fatigue and muscle weakness. I read a definition saying that if things are heavy etc straight away then it's weakness, but if it gets progressively heavy then it's fatigue. But then if you ahve continual fatigue, then surely that could mean your muscles have CFS-induced fatigue resulting in basically continual weakness in lifting etc. I also have bad overall muscle tiredness feeling and aches, which I think is an indication of fatigue. I even asked my Dr the difference between weakness and fatigue - he aknowledged there was one, but couldn't really define it.

    MCTE
  7. EZBRUZR

    EZBRUZR New Member

    Hi MCTE,
    They twtches Concerned ME Greatly as well. My DR had NO Interest in them,so I eventually quit worrying and just*dealt* with it for the Time. Like BEK,I was given klonopin ,which I have stopped for MY Experiment.
    I have CUT the Minimal Sugar intake and the very last Caffine is GONE as well. I take LARGE amounts of the Magnesium,Drink water and Sea Salt,i have also decreased my Prozac to 20mg every 3 days. MY spasams and Fatigue are going away in a nice even manner,sleep mAY even be getting better(I think).
    The Differnce IS DRAMATIC! :~}

    i would take a close look at diet,I am FINDING we develope Allergies we may not notice as the effect could be the Fatigue/spasams. It IS VERY Interesting to see the differences on My Daily life,yep I can say Life again:~}!

    Good Luck,
    Ez
  8. tansy

    tansy New Member

    are very common in CFS. I found Ca and MG helped too but have learnt to take them apart to maximise absorption. Since adding GABA and 5HTP to my regime they've got even less noticable.

    cheers

    Tansy
  9. tansy

    tansy New Member

    in your so many of your symptoms is such good news. So pleased to hear you feel you have a life again.

    Whoopeeeee!

    I agree with your advice too.

    Love

    Tansy
  10. rasyte

    rasyte New Member

    I have twitches all over me too. Besides that I have fatigue, muscle pain, stiffness, burning pain in my almost all joints, pins&needles, tingling, sleep, stomach problems, sinus pain, stuffed nose, sore throat, etc - you name it. I am also concerned about neuromuscular diseases and this is why I ended up seeing neuro doc. He run neuro tests EMG/NCV to check for something serious, but at least preliminary he told they were normal. I am going back to see my neuro doc to get details. I think twitches alone without profound weakness (not perceived) do not indicate serious problems. Profound weakness (when you CAN NOT do something that you used to) requires serious follow up. Even then it migth be something treatable. My pcp thinks that my symptoms are very common to Lyme even though blood test does not show it. She put my on Doxy just to make sure. If that does not help I think I might be receiving Fibro diagnoses soon, because non of the doc's could find anything wrong me when I feel so bad every day. There is benign fasciculation syndrome as well where fatigue can be a symptom.
  11. rdthewave

    rdthewave New Member

    One of my very first symptoms was muscle twitching and it absolutely freaked me out because my Dad had died previous year with ALS and that was one if his first symptoms. 7 yrs later of course and I know that I don't have ALS. The muscle weakness I have now.........I don't think is that typical.......it started out as muscle fatigue.....for intstance I'd start doing an acitivity and I could feel the energy get used up real fast........would have to rest the muscle and then start again. Now however I have a constant weakness in my muscles..........in other words I don't have to use them at all for them to feel weak. I mean even if I'm not doing anything........my arms and legs feel like they're barely hanging on my body......it's the most unusual sensation. Like if a weak tree branch had a ton weight hanging on it and it was barely staying on trunk........it's not painful but extremely uncomfortable........makes lifting my arms very hard......this sensation waxes and wanes in its intensity. I have not heard of anyone having this same scenario. I have been to 7 different neurologists......and everything comes out normal..........so what's new right!

    Tammy
  12. sumbuni

    sumbuni New Member

    for years my jaw muscle has spasmed at night...I often thought that if I ever caught my tongue between my teeth at that exact moment I would bite it off!

    Also, I don't know if this counts as muscle twitches or spasms, when I'm trying to go to sleep my whole body will jerk...which doesn't do much for the going to sleep thing.

    I two have the random muscles to twitch...face, feet and legs.

    All I do is live with it...these things are not so severe in me as they are some of the others, and for me they are minimal copared to the sore stiff achy muscles and fatigue.

    God Bless!

    Love
    sumbuni
  13. hope-floats

    hope-floats New Member

    in my arms, legs, neck and upper back. It seems that my arms and legs especially feel like I completed some exhausting workout. When I do exert my muscles, they just hurt worse. Right now, with all the keyboarding, they are aching pretty bad. If I was smart, I'd sign off, but this message board is too interesting. In terms of muscle weakness. I wouldn't say I'm having weakness. I'd say that they are so fatigued I limit the amount I use my muscles. Because, when I overuse them....I pay for it.

    Climbing stairs, and bending down make my leg muscles BURN terribly. This was the first muscle pain I recognized. As far as the extreme fatigue...it does wax and wane, but most of the time I feel as if I've been physically active and have exerted myself to exhaustion. Of course, I haven't. On the days that I feel better, I'll go do errand as early in the morning as possible. If I have to do anything in the afternoon, I'm dragging my body, and will actually feel sick from being overly fatigued.

    I was having frequent twitches, legs, arms, hands, mouth. I was nervous to when that started happening. I actually thought about MS. My doctor told me to increase foods with potassium to see if that makes a difference. I started eating more cantalope, apricots, bananas, almonds and potatos. I have noticed a difference. They lessened and now I haven't had any twitches for several weeks. Just watch, I'm going to start twitching now!!!!

    This was an interesting thread. It appears that we all have similar experiences with our muscles. Hang in there everybody. God Bless.
  14. Thanks for your definition of muscle weakness vs fatigue. That's the first time I've seen a definition like that - where did you find it?

    Thanks,

    MCTE
  15. victoria

    victoria New Member

    that your twitches were better since Klonopin. I have been experiencing eyelid twitching (top & bottom) and ffeel it's related to Klonopin or Valium.

    I was taking Klonopin intermittantly very low doses to sleep; shortly after, started to experience it. Over the last month I've not taken it, and the twitching has gotten btter. But, I occasionally take Valium when my sinusitis causes too much muscle spasm in neck/shoulders, and it does seem to kick it up as well.

    In fact, I was thinking about posting a question if othrs have experienced this related to the diazepams....
    Victoria
  16. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    A lot of good suggestions. I've tried magnesium and sometimes a cal/mag 1/1 ratio supplement, and had varying results. Sometimes the twitching goes away for weeks, sometimes days, sometimes months. I think the less drugs you can take the better, as they only overtax an already overtaxed liver. (Traditional chinese medicine connects spasms and twitching with liver slugglishness or stagnation, and recommends various herbs, etc., to help clean the liver, restore it's function).

    Anyway, along that line, just wanted to mention the need to stay away as much as possible from any sort of chemical or pesticide exposure. (Pesticides in particular are now strongly connected with parkinsons disease, among others). And chemicals are everywhere: A Burger King "strawberry-flavored" milkshake contains over FORTY different chemicals to make that strawberry flavor...

    Just my two cents

    Dan
  17. carole128

    carole128 New Member

    Hi MCTE
    Like you I have had odd little pluses under my skin. They don't hurt but feel odd, so I ignore them. However the twitches can drive me nuts, especially in my legs in the evening. I find it difficult expaining to my doctor or osteopath whether I have a pain or an ache, or whether I am feeling really weak or fatigued. I may give them a long list of aches and pains but tell them I don't feel ill I just ache. The thing I find most annoying about having FM is not be able to do anything for more than a few minutes at a time without my back aching or complete exhaustion. I even feel weak using my computer and my hand feels all shaky just moving the mouse around! After a few minutes of reading and thinking my mind gets tired.
    Carole