CFS patient cured...yes for 8 days now.

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by AllWXRider, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    On another forum, "Vancerd" is cured. Energy is high, brain fog gone, sleep wonderful. His story is long, but 8 years of CFS. The root cause: a clogged liver. He had gallstones. The green chlorestol type.

    He used a gallbladder flush (epsom salts, grapefruit juice and olive oil and stones came out of the rectum. 20 the first time. Some very small BB size, others the size of almonds.

    The GI doc has just removed his gallbladder last year, it was "sluggish" so he yanked it out. No one did an ultrasound on his liver.

    The pain was so bad he went to the ER, terrible pain on his right shoulder and right hip. Xray didn't show anything and his heart was OK so they sent him home. No ultrasound.

    He googled the symptoms and gallstones came up... a lot.

    The liver has no pain receptors. So if its swollen, the surrouding area is what hurts.

    A clogged liver will certainly slow down your vitality. The liver makes < 2000 enzymes. Filters the blood. Turns fat into glucose, glucose into fat. Dr. Sandra Cabot MD is an excellent resource on all things liverish.
  2. Svette_Palme

    Svette_Palme New Member

    Now THERE is a recovery I like to hear about!! Good old flushes have produced so many testimonials of recovery. Its not for all of us... or is it? Maybe it is basic maintenance.

    I read that there is a channel [or tube or whatever] from the liver to the colon or something like that, and the excess liver waste can be expelled through that when the flush is going on. Something to do with bile ducts, of course.

    Livers do store toxins, etc. In today's toxic world, it is no wonder the liver gets overloaded and has trouble doing it's various jobs.
  3. ulala

    ulala New Member

    Can you tell us what forum you read that story? Thanks!
  4. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    I know we don't have a 100% certain definition of CFS, but in my experience it would have to include post-exertional malaise - fatigue which hits some hours after exertion (even if one was feeling well to begin with) and takes 2-3 days to recover from. Dr. Sarah Myhill has a good explanation of a possible cause of this - that people with CFS for some unknown reason make energy anaerobically, as opposed to the efficient aerobic energy production in healthy people. She explains it much better on her website.

    But none of this detracts from Vancerd's recovery. My liver was clogged once and it does make you feel quite sick, fuzzy brained etc. Fortunately, I had a very good chiropractor who does muscle testing. He first diagnosed an inflamed gallbladder which was treated using AF Betafood from Standard Process, it worked great. It saved my gallbladder. I also had to start taking digestive enzymes and hydrochloric acid, which prevented future inflammation (as well as learning about proper diet).

    A few years later the clogged liver surfaced, apparently primarily from toxins absorbed in a job I had many years ago. I did a liver detox, it took a month, was very unpleasant, and my liver was much better afterwards (and still is).

    So - I am sure my chiro saved my gallbladder and he also got my liver functioning well. I think this is a major deficit in traditional medicine - they don't seem to have the ability or proper tests or what have you to properly diagnose these things, and then lack the means to get you well, instead of yanking out organs.

    Muscle testing is not 100% accurate, and not all practitioners are competent, but overall I've had very good results with it (and for those concerned, I did see regular doctors for these things without any benefit or illumination of what was going in, before seeing the chiropractor)

    Unfortunately, despite a now healthy gallbladder and liver, I did develop full-blown CFS - am unable to do more than a few hours of activity a day or I crash, and then get sick.

    So I'm very happy for Vancerd - I think many more people may have similar problems and haven't been properly diagnosed - but I don't think he really had CFS, although he most definitely had a malfunctioning liver and gallbladder.

  5. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    Vancerd is on the Dr. T forum:

    You can find his posts there, but after a person recovers, they often leave.

    Yes, the liver empties its waste into the gallbladder. The waste is bile salts and chloresterol mainly. If the gallbladder is removed, it is sewn directly into the colon. The sphincter of oddi is a ring muscle that relaxes and allow bile to break up globs of fat into small droplets. The pancreas also makes lipase to dissolve fats, but the enzyme won't work on globs--- no surface area.

    This includes the fat soluable vitamins: E, D et al.

    Per Sandra Cabot MD, the best way to make healthy bile is raw veggies. She recommends vegetable juicing as an easy way to do that.
  6. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    We have to draw the line in the sand somewhere. The CDC draws it at 6 months. The poor guy was very fatigued and brain fogged.

    The liver cleanse didn't fix me. I'm still broke. Maybe the 33% of CFS that didn't show XMRV have a clogged /dysfunctional liver. Wouldn't that be something!

    Chronic - All the time
    Fatigue - tired
    Syndrome - What the heck is wrong with you?
  7. vancerd

    vancerd New Member

    I've been a member on this forum for some time... just as a spectator.

    Allwxrider is pretty accurate. I still can't believe something as simple as a liver cleanse has pretty much totally cured me.

    Here's the conclusion of my own "sicko story", the short version.

    About 8 years ago, after about a year of medical run around, they decided to take my gall bladder. After that I started having pain and fatigue problems. Intermittent pain in my right side and unrelenting fatigue. Went to my family doc, at least 4 GI docs. Finally convinced them to send me to the Mayo Clinic. The Mayo Clinic didn't provide a diagnosis or treatment. They just said "we don't know, maybe it's a mechanical thing". Several more years and several more doctors and I finally decided to give Holtorf a try. I've told you that story. Went to Holtorf Clinic in Jan, been talking with them every other month since then and spending about $500/month on supplements and bio-identical hormones.

    Here is the "rest of the story".

    About a week ago I got very sick at work. Lots of pain in my right side, and intense pain in my right shoulder.... like a dagger. I had a big project review so I toughed it out for the day on Thursday. Friday was a scheduled vacation day, but I was miserable all day. Finally in the afternoon, when my wife got home, I said "take me to the E.R.".

    At the E.R. they did EKG, chest x-rays, etc. Their diagnosis was gastritis. Sent me home with a prescription for Prevacid.

    Miserable Saturday and Sunday. Decided I needed a better answer and I started wondering if the shoulder and the abdominal pain were connected. Long story short... I found a "liver flush" on the web. ( I'm sure you're very familiar with those kinds of things... the ones that promise to cure everything from headaches to MS overnight... whatever, I was ready to try anything. I told my wife (a nursing student) , don't laugh at me, but I'm going to give this a shot.

    The ingredients were epsom salt, olive oil, and grapefruit juice. The ingredients for this magic cocktail cost me $6 at the local supermarket. I drank the stuff and went to bed. When I woke up the pain was 90% gone. And then IT started... I started passing some bizarre looking things. Major gallstones some the size of a walnut (and I have no gallbladder). That was a week ago now and the pain is still 90+% gone (I think I'll repeat again this weekend) and my energy level has been THROUGH THE ROOF!. I'm pretty sure I am completely cured!

    8 years of pain and fatigue
    8 doctors, Mayo Clinic, Holtorf Clinic
    4 sonograms, 3 CT scans, 2 MRI's
    approx $35k - $50k paid by my insurance
    approx $5 - $8k out of my own pocket
    $6 for the cure.

    Maybe instead of health care reform, we need some medical training that's centered around healing patients instead of maximizing profits.

    [This Message was Edited on 10/21/2009]
  8. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    A clogged liver will make you very fatigued and brain fogged and you can go on that way for a very long time, as long as your liver remains toxic. Being hypothyroid can cause fatigue and brain fog too, and you can be hypothyroid for years, but the length of time involved doesn't make it CFIDS. Luckily, a clogged liver is relatively easy to fix, at least it's fixable, same with hypothyroidism.

    But CFIDS is something different, although people with CFIDS may have clogged livers and be hypothyroid. But you can have a clogged liver or be hypothyroid without CFIDS. My mom took Armour thyroid for years, but she didn't have CFIDS.

    You can be anemic, and tired and brainfogged because of the anemia for years, but that's not CFIDS either.

    I just don't think length of time makes something CFIDS regardless of what the CDC says.

    If we had more and better research, I think we would be able to pin down what CFIDS is. I still hold wtih Sarah Myhill and her paper on it, it's very interesting reading. It may tie in with Rich Vank's methylation paper.

  9. vancerd

    vancerd New Member

    I totally agree.

    I don't completely understand how or why this worked... but it certainly did.

    I think CFIDS is an term that basically means "I'm tired all the time and no one can tell me why". So when a doctor diagnoses you with CFIDS all he's really saying is "you're tired all the time and I don't know why". Kind of like if a doctor diagnoses you with bursitis, all he's saying is "you have pain in your shoulder". Lucky for me, the cure was simple and inexpensive (unfortunate that it took 8+ years to find). I'm only quoting what I've read, but I've read that a clogged or toxic liver can cause the immune system to become depressed, homonal issues including hypothyroidism.

    I'm currently on T3 and testosterone. It will be interesting to see if I can eventually get off of those too. I've dumped several of my supplements already with no ill effects. I'll continue to use them up and not replace them unless symptoms return.

    Now I'm wondering if people have fatigue with other root causes.... would a liver flush improve their symptoms even if it doesn't totally eliminate.

    Some things I've noticed recently is that my urine is especially smelly, I'm guessing that my body is still getting rid of the toxins that were clogging up my liver.
  10. gasolo

    gasolo New Member

    Hi AllWXRider,

    Actually the gallbladder is an appendage off of the common bile duct. When it is removed, the stump is simply sutured closed. The common bile duct and pancreatic duct combine and empty at the sphincter of oddi into the duodenum.

  11. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    I think I vacationed at the sphincer of oddi years ago. However, I never made it down to duodenum and I so wanted to go bird watching to see the pancreatic ducks since they are becoming extinct. I hear they are beautiful.

    Sorry don't mean to get off topic but sometimes I get these right brain attacks!!

  12. ChuckNBerkeley

    ChuckNBerkeley New Member

    Me, I have been "cured" 5 - 7 times for 2 or 3 months over the past 18.6 years. Many more ~15 day "cures". And lots of 1 or 2 day "cures".
  13. ulala

    ulala New Member

    Thanks for this great information!

    Vancerd- Been there-done that with Holtorf. Crazy expensive, but he is willing to treat aggressively! Glad youre feeling so much better!
  14. onset1990

    onset1990 Member

    very clear guidelines for diagnosing CFS. Pain and fatigue and even fuzzy-headedness doesn't begin to describe what I have had for almost 20 years.

    But this is an important post because this is why doctors and the public don't always "believe in" CFS as a disease.

    Test, a test, that is what we all wish for. We need to be able to exclude all other causes of "some of" our symptoms!

    I also think it's important not to attribute all your symptoms to CFS when you really do have CFS. Clearing up accompanying problems can provide some relief for the core symptoms.
  15. m1she11e

    m1she11e New Member

    Im wondering what happened to this person with the great results doing a liver cleanse.

    I have been speaking with a man who sells a line of supplements. (imagine that...) The ones that interested me were his ozonated oils. He supplies Ozonated oils to several famous alternative medical doctors. (They are supposed to kill pathogens) Im not here to argue whether they work, I was looking into maybe purchasing them. The guy who sells these products is extremely knowledgeable. We spoke many times as I did not want to waste MORE money.

    Finally he sent me 600.00 worth of products for free. (only pay if they work) I was excited until I learned I have to start the protocol with a liver gallbladder flush. He insists that this has to be done to heal PERIOD. Otherwise you kill the pathogens and the liver is still a storehouse and releases them back into the body and that is why the pathogens dont clear. He combines a typical flush like mentioned here with his Ozonated oils. The theory being that the liver is holding onto all kinds of pathogens and as they are released, the oils help to kill them off. After the flush, you continue a pretty strict protocol for 2 more weeks with the oils and some other supplements. If you get really sick or pass alot of stones, you have to continue doing the flushes until the flush doesnt make you sick and there are no more stones to pass.

    Anyway, I only pay for the products if they work. If I feel great and continue to feel great is what we are considering as the products "worked."

    I have just heard horror stories about doing the flush. I heard you can get awful sick all night and some people say they are sick for weeks afterwards. According to "this man" that means they need to do more flushing.

    Now, I have studied alot and researched the heck out of this and am close to just going for it.

    Any personal experience with this would be greatly appreciated.

  16. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    Dr. Klinghardt also starts with a high fiber cleanse and detox with bentonite clay. This is to keep neurotoxins from being reabsorbed thru the hepato (liver) entero (intestine) loop.

    After 6 weeks, then start the ozonated oils. He too says that you'll be wasting product with out a proper cleanse.

    Vancerd was sick but better by the next day. I would "pray to the porcelain goddess" all night if it meant feeling better the next day. The liver cleanse mildly affected me...

    Mark Hyman MD also recommend 50 grams of fiber a day. Fruits, vegetables then supplement. Our system needs that much to function optimally.
  17. m1she11e

    m1she11e New Member

    Thanks for the reply ALLWX,

    Do you know if Vancerd is still feeling well or if it was a temporary relief in symptoms?

    This "man" I am working makes the oils Klinghardt sells and they are good friends. I have been on a high fiber diet with lots of fresh green smoothies these last few weeks. Im hoping to prepare my body for this.

    I think the bentontite would make sense too.

    This guy working with me has alot of confidence. I cant believe he said I could pay only if they worked. Of course there is more to the protocol but the main things are the liver cleanse and the oils. Oh, and keeping the bowel moving. He said I wont want to leave the house for a few days. (thats after the liver cleanse and moving on to phase II)

    He tells me "CFS is easy." After 28 years of this...???

    I hope the Porcelain gods go gentle on me. I will update.