CFS same thing as AIDS???!!!

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by roro, Sep 27, 2002.

  1. roro

    roro New Member

    OK, since I cant post the link to the article, I will post the important parts of it. This was the scariest:


    Chapter One

    Some CFS Patients May Be "Non-HIV AIDS" Cases
    A disturbing announcement was made at the July 1992 international AIDS conference held in Amsterdam: Several people with symptoms of AIDS, but who had no evidence of infection with either HIV-1 or HIV-

    2 (the viruses generally believed, at the time, to cause AIDS), had been identified by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. A few weeks later, in early September, Newsweek made an even more shocking announcement: that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome researcher Dr. Paul Cheney had in his practice 20 CFS patients who had the same immune system deficiencies as the non-HIV AIDS cases revealed at the Amsterdam conference.

    What wasn't known to most observers was that one of the researchers who had first said publicly that he was aware of such cases, Dr. Sidhur Gupta of the University of California, Irvine, is himself a Chronic Fatigue Syndrome researcher.

    The fact that some CFS patients were developing exactly the same immune system problems as AIDS patients, however, raised the questions not only of what was causing that immune system destruction but also of the relationship that exists between the two syndromes.

    The hallmark of the HIV-negative AIDS cases, as established by the Centers for Disease Control, is a depletion of a type of immune system cell called T4 (or CD4) cells. The T4 cells of AIDS patients can fall to very low levels and, although recent studies have suggested that there is no real correlation with health status, a decreasing T4 cell count is generally viewed as a sign of worsening disease.

    The CDC decided to call the HIV-negative, AIDS-like disease "ICL" (an abbreviation for "idiopathic CD4-positive T-lymphocytopenia," which simply means an unexplained depletion of T4 cells).

    Most healthy people have a T4 cell count of approximately 1,000; a T4 cell count below 800 is considered abnormal. In order to be diagnosed with ICL, a person must have a T4 cell count of less than 300.

    One of the most puzzling things about the ICL cases to AIDS researchers -- other than the fact that they didn't have HIV -- is that most of the patients do not fit into recognized AIDS "risk behavior" categories; that is, they were not gay men, IV drug users, or the sexual partners of people in those risk groups. These cases may, in fact, be dramatic evidence that federal officials have not told the public the whole truth about the nature and the full scope of the AIDS epidemic.

    The mystery of what role HIV actually plays in causing the immune system deterioration and symptoms seen in AIDS deepened in early October 1992. The British medical journal The Lancet reported that five people had received blood from a man later found to be infected with HIV; however, ten years later, the five transfusion recipients as well as the original, HIV-positive blood donor remained free of AIDS symptoms and were apparently healthy. The Australian researchers who reported those cases concluded that these six people were infected with a non-disease-causing strain, or type, of HIV.

    The link between the immune system dysfunction seen in AIDS and in CFS was made explicit in early 1993 when government scientists admitted that CFS patients, like AIDS patients, suffer a decline in T4 cells. The government's leading CFS researcher, Dr. Stephen Straus at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, published a research paper in The Journal of Clinical Immunology in which a decrease in the number of T4 cells in CFS patients was documented.

    Dr. Straus proposed a novel mechanism to explain the loss of T4 cells in CFS patients: The T4 cells of CFS patients were not depleted, as they were in AIDS patients, according to Dr. Straus; they were just hiding in organ tissues. Unfortunately, Dr. Straus was unable to produce any evidence to support this theory (and still has not done so). Dr. Straus did not suggest that any of his CFS patients had T4 cell counts so low that they could be identified as ICL patients.

    Meanwhile, Dr. Cheney, in addition to announcing that some of his CFS patients had low enough T4 cell counts to be considered non-

    HIV AIDS cases, reported that as many as 40 percent of his CFS patients also had a close associate with an illness similar to CFS. This information -- along with the mystery of why AIDS could develop without HIV infection and why HIV infection does not always lead to AIDS -- raised the possibility that a virus or bacteria that spreads more easily than HIV could be attacking people's immune systems.


    OK, just the fact that it says its from 10 years ago discredits it somewhat. Anyone else?
  2. roro

    roro New Member

    OK, since I cant post the link to the article, I will post the important parts of it. This was the scariest:


    Chapter One

    Some CFS Patients May Be "Non-HIV AIDS" Cases
    A disturbing announcement was made at the July 1992 international AIDS conference held in Amsterdam: Several people with symptoms of AIDS, but who had no evidence of infection with either HIV-1 or HIV-

    2 (the viruses generally believed, at the time, to cause AIDS), had been identified by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. A few weeks later, in early September, Newsweek made an even more shocking announcement: that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome researcher Dr. Paul Cheney had in his practice 20 CFS patients who had the same immune system deficiencies as the non-HIV AIDS cases revealed at the Amsterdam conference.

    What wasn't known to most observers was that one of the researchers who had first said publicly that he was aware of such cases, Dr. Sidhur Gupta of the University of California, Irvine, is himself a Chronic Fatigue Syndrome researcher.

    The fact that some CFS patients were developing exactly the same immune system problems as AIDS patients, however, raised the questions not only of what was causing that immune system destruction but also of the relationship that exists between the two syndromes.

    The hallmark of the HIV-negative AIDS cases, as established by the Centers for Disease Control, is a depletion of a type of immune system cell called T4 (or CD4) cells. The T4 cells of AIDS patients can fall to very low levels and, although recent studies have suggested that there is no real correlation with health status, a decreasing T4 cell count is generally viewed as a sign of worsening disease.

    The CDC decided to call the HIV-negative, AIDS-like disease "ICL" (an abbreviation for "idiopathic CD4-positive T-lymphocytopenia," which simply means an unexplained depletion of T4 cells).

    Most healthy people have a T4 cell count of approximately 1,000; a T4 cell count below 800 is considered abnormal. In order to be diagnosed with ICL, a person must have a T4 cell count of less than 300.

    One of the most puzzling things about the ICL cases to AIDS researchers -- other than the fact that they didn't have HIV -- is that most of the patients do not fit into recognized AIDS "risk behavior" categories; that is, they were not gay men, IV drug users, or the sexual partners of people in those risk groups. These cases may, in fact, be dramatic evidence that federal officials have not told the public the whole truth about the nature and the full scope of the AIDS epidemic.

    The mystery of what role HIV actually plays in causing the immune system deterioration and symptoms seen in AIDS deepened in early October 1992. The British medical journal The Lancet reported that five people had received blood from a man later found to be infected with HIV; however, ten years later, the five transfusion recipients as well as the original, HIV-positive blood donor remained free of AIDS symptoms and were apparently healthy. The Australian researchers who reported those cases concluded that these six people were infected with a non-disease-causing strain, or type, of HIV.

    The link between the immune system dysfunction seen in AIDS and in CFS was made explicit in early 1993 when government scientists admitted that CFS patients, like AIDS patients, suffer a decline in T4 cells. The government's leading CFS researcher, Dr. Stephen Straus at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, published a research paper in The Journal of Clinical Immunology in which a decrease in the number of T4 cells in CFS patients was documented.

    Dr. Straus proposed a novel mechanism to explain the loss of T4 cells in CFS patients: The T4 cells of CFS patients were not depleted, as they were in AIDS patients, according to Dr. Straus; they were just hiding in organ tissues. Unfortunately, Dr. Straus was unable to produce any evidence to support this theory (and still has not done so). Dr. Straus did not suggest that any of his CFS patients had T4 cell counts so low that they could be identified as ICL patients.

    Meanwhile, Dr. Cheney, in addition to announcing that some of his CFS patients had low enough T4 cell counts to be considered non-

    HIV AIDS cases, reported that as many as 40 percent of his CFS patients also had a close associate with an illness similar to CFS. This information -- along with the mystery of why AIDS could develop without HIV infection and why HIV infection does not always lead to AIDS -- raised the possibility that a virus or bacteria that spreads more easily than HIV could be attacking people's immune systems.


    OK, just the fact that it says its from 10 years ago discredits it somewhat. Anyone else?
  3. ohmyaching

    ohmyaching New Member

    If people only knew........
    You're going to hear alot of different theories for CFS. This is one of them. Some things about CFS aren't going to be pleasant to hear and some may very well be true. We need to keep after the powers that be to really study this illness so that the ignorance about this illness can be replaced by knowledge. Unfortunately because the government is not readily inclined to do so there are lots of suppositions as to the cause of this illness. I was amazed at the questions that were brought up the last time there was a chat on this website with one of the doctors studying CFS/FM. Everybody kept asking him if they had these illnesses because they did this or because they did that. I hope it was obvious to the doctor that we NEED more accurate information.
  4. sb439

    sb439 New Member

    The fact that low T4 (CD4) cells are "a hallmark" of HIV-AIDS, doesn't mean that whoever suffers from depletion of T4 (CD4) cells has AIDS, except, perhaps, if you take AIDS to mean nothing but "acquired immune deficiency syndrome", which holds of everyone with CFIDS anyhow ("ID" here standing for immune deficiency). It seems that a fifth or quarter (I'm unsure about exact percentage) of people with CFIDS have low CD4 in addition to low CD3 (T. Lymphocyte)and low CD8 (Cytotoxic T. Lymphocyte). (You can find out whether you belong to that type by having a full lymphocyte count done.) We would surely need some criteria for what it means that one disease is 'the same as' another, before we can draw any conclusions whether CFIDS is the same as AIDS, or whether a sub-group of CFIDS sufferers 'has AIDS', or anything like that.
    On the cynical side, if a decision were made to say that some (or all) people with CFIDS have AIDS, that would be likely to draw a lot more research money and research resources ...
    Susanne
  5. selma

    selma New Member

    Thank-you for posting the artical. Let's pray more research will be given to us and maybe a test for CFS!!

    Love Selma
  6. hope2002

    hope2002 New Member

    Don't believe everything you read or hear. You do not have AIDS!

    Some media will tell you that you do or perhaps even articles. Don't believe it. That is the way they keep people coming back for more medication, etc.....

    I can tell you what you DO have, probably. Most people in your situation go see an Endocrinologist and have their thyroid tested. Fibromyalgia is not the problem.....it is a SYMPTOM of the problem! I had the same thing.

    Most people: See an Endocrinologist
    Have tested: Thyroid (Especially RT3 levels!!!)
    Best thing I take: Coral Calcium - even heals cancer patients.

    Hugs,
    Hope2002
  7. Daphne

    Daphne New Member

    The way I understand it, HIV/AIDS and CFS are very different in that physicians and scientists have an understanding as to what causes HIV/AIDS and hence can develop medications to at least slow down its progression. That is not true of CFS. Also, not everyone with CFS has a decreased number of T-cells whereas in AIDS that is definitely the case.

    As you stated, this study is 10 years old. I would tend to watch the more current literature for information.
  8. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I have Fibromyalgia and my T3 is right down the middle of normal and has been for the entire 17 yrs. I've been sick. My thyroid antibodies are also normal.
    The World Health Org. definition of FMS includes the word heterogenous. Look it up in the dictionary.
    Klutzo