Ciguatoxin herbal remedies article... can anyone read French??

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by moonlightkitty, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    Hi everyone,
    I don't know who is following the NCF ciguatera epitope research, but I'm someone who's putting all my hope in this and the gene research.

    I've been looking for anything that I could possibly experiment with that might alleviate symptoms until we know more about this (it will be out in the next newsletter in a few weeks).

    I found an article about traditional remedies in the South Pacific that were found to help with ciguatera, but it's all in French.

    If anyone here can understand French, I'll post the article.

    I'm not sure these plants are available as a remedy from what I looked up, but I'd still like to know even if there's any remote possibility these could help.

    I did manage to figure out one part of the article, which said two particular plants helped counteract some effects of the ciguatoxin, particularly its blocking ion channels (which we know is a big problem in cfs).

    Christine
  2. Rosiebud

    Rosiebud New Member

    my daughter is half French and bilingual.

    If you post the message I'll get her to translate it as best she can seeing as there will be lots of medical terms.

    As long as you give us a little time.

    Rosie
  3. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    Thanks Rosie.
    By the way, this is not on ciguatoxin & CFS, but just the actual ciguatera fish poisoning.

    *Sorry this has all come out a bit of a mess with strange indents when I copied + pasted*

    Christine
    ------------------

    Ethnopharmacologie et intoxication ciguatérique

    La «gratte »appelée ainsi par la manifestation intense de prurit cutané généralisé qu ’elle provoque,est une
    intoxication liée à la consommation de poissons eux-mêmes contaminés par l ’ingestion d ’algues benthiques
    unicellulaires fl agellées du genre Gambierdiscus .Les toxines se transmettent le long de la chaîne alimentaire et se
    concentrent jusqu ’à obtenir un taux suffi sant pour provoquer une intoxication ciguatérique chez l ’homme.Un
    grand nombre d ’espèces de poissons peuvent être toxiques,en particulier les carnivores.Les toxines majoritaires
    impliquées dans cette intoxication sont la maitotoxine (MTX)et les ciguatoxines (CTX),qui sont parmi les plus
    puissantes toxines marines isolées.
    Une intoxication à effets graves et multiples
    Les effets de cet empoisonnement se manifestent par une faiblesse généralisée,une sensation de prurit plus ou moins
    intense de la peau et des muqueuses,des douleurs articulaires,des nausées associées à des symptômes digestifs (diarrhées,
    crampes,etc.)et des symptômes neurologiques.Dans les cas graves,des symptômes cardiaques et respiratoires
    apparaissent et peuvent entraîner la mort.Il n ’existe que peu de traitements soignant cette intoxication,la plupart étant
    symptomatiques (complexe vitaminique B,antidiarrhéique,anti-histaminique),même si l ’utilisation de substances
    antagonistes «atropine –like »semble prometteuse.La haute prévalence de cette intoxication dans le Pacifi que,rendant
    certaines zones littorales totalement impropres à la pèche,entraîne d ’importants problèmes économiques.
    Des plantes couramment utilisées par les îliens
    Ce type particulier d ’empoisonnement est très bien connu des îliens et clairement distingué des autres intoxications
    alimentaires pouvant survenir suite à l ’ingestion de poissons.Les personnes vivant en Nouvelle-Calédonie,au Vanuatu
    et de manière générale dans le Pacifi que,utilisent des traitements à base de plante pour soigner,prévenir ou atténuer
    cette intoxication.En général,le traitement est toujours curatif et la majorité des espèces utilisées ont aussi la réputation
    d ’être antidiarrhéiques,antirhumatismales,ou analgésiques.Leur usage dans le cas d ’une intoxication ciguatérique
    serait alors certainement symptomatique.Cependant quelques espèces semblent plus particulièrement spécifi ques de
    l ’intoxication ciguatérique et démontrent une forte convergence d ’usage dans le Pacifi que.Il existe aussi des plantes qui
    sont utilisées conjointement au poisson durant sa cuisson,dans le dessein de le «détoxifi er ».Cependant cette pratique
    reste douteuse,car les ciguatoxines sont insolubles dans l ’eau et résistantes à la chaleur.Enfi n,une préparation faite
    à partir d ’une espèce originaire par excellence de Polynésie,le «fruit à pain »(Artocarpus à partir d ’une espèce originaire par excellence de Polynésie,le «fruit à pain »(Artocarpus à partir d ’une espèce originaire par excellence de Polynésie,le «fruit à pain »(altilis ),serait administrée
    régulièrement dès l ’enfance comme «vaccin ».
    Une liste de près de cent plantes a été établie
    En 1990,un programme de recherche destiné à évaluer le potentiel thérapeutique des plantes utilisées dans la médecine
    traditionnelle pour traiter la ciguatéra a été lancé au centre IRD de Nouméa.La confi rmation de l ’action thérapeutique
    d ’un remède traditionnel contre la ciguatéra et de son innocuité,serait d ’un grand intérêt pour tous les îliens du
    Pacifi que et en particulier pour les populations isolées dont le principal apport protéique dépend de la consommation
    de poisson.
    Un des objectifs de cette recherche est donc de pouvoir recommander des plantes reconnues actives et non-toxiques,
    et également de pouvoir proposer des sachets de plantes séchées à prendre en infusion dès l ’apparition de symptômes
    digestifs faisant suite à la consommation de poissons coralliens.
    De plus,étant donné l ’évolution du tourisme à une échelle mondiale,on aboutit actuellement à une augmentation de cas
    dans les pays non endémiques de ciguatéra.La mise au point d ’un médicament qui puisse atténuer ou contrer les effets
    responsables de cette intoxication serait d ’un intérêt thérapeutique important étant donné qu ’à l ’heure actuelle ce produit
    fait cruellement défaut.Mais quel industriel sera intéressé par le développement d ’un tel médicament ?
    Une liste de près de 100 plantes utilisées dans la médecine traditionnelle a donc été établie à la suite de nos études
    ethnopharmacologiques.Certaines de ces espèces ont été sélectionnées et testées sur souris intoxiquée avec du foie
    de murène Gymnothorax javanicus (le traitement de référence étant le mannitol et le tocainide).Deux espèces parmi
    les plus utilisées,«le faux tabac »Argusia argentea (Boraginaceae)et «le faux poivrier »Schinus terebenthifolius
    (Anacardiaceae),ont démontré une forte activité restauratrice sur la souris.Certaines autres se sont montrées toxiques.
    Mais à l ’inverse de l ’homme,les souris semblent éliminer les ciguatoxines assez rapidement et ne représentent donc
    pas un bon modèle animal.
    Deux plantes aux effets prometteurs
    Afi n de compléter notre étude et en collaboration avec l ’équipe du Dr.Jordi Molgó du Laboratoire de Neurobiologie
    Cellulaire et Moléculaire du CNRS de Gif sur Yvette,nous avons eu recours à des expérimentations sur les axones
    myélinisés et jonctions neuromusculaires isolés de grenouille.Ces tests ont permis de montrer que les extraits de
    feuilles d ’Argusia argentea et de rhizomes de Davallia solida (Davalliaceae)sont capables de contrebalancer certains
    effets neurocellulaires de la ciguatoxine-1B du Pacifi que.En effet,les ciguatoxines bloquent en position ouverte des
    canaux qui se situent a la surface des nerfs.Par ces canaux vont donc rentrer des ions sodium qui vont déclencher des
    informations représentées par les pics sur le schéma A ci-dessous.Nous voyons donc que pour un stimulus en condition
    normale,nous avons un pic (témoin)et qu ’en présence de ciguatoxine (CTX-1B),nous avons une suite de pics qui
    entraîne une décharge d ’information et donc d ’infl ux nerveux.Lorsque nous traitons notre cellule avec une des deux
    plantes sélectionnées (CTX-1B +A.argentea ),nous éliminons cette cascade de pics et nous retrouvons l ’état normal.
    Sur les photos B ci-dessous prises en microscopie électronique,nous observons le gonfl ement des nerfs lorsqu ’ils
    sont traités avec de la ciguatoxine.Ceci est facilement explicable puisque toujours par ces canaux bloqués en position
    ouverte,de l ’eau va rentrer dans les nerfs pour contrer le changement de pression osmotique provoqué par l ’entrée d ’ions
    sodium.Ce gonfl ement va aussi être éliminé par le traitement avec une de nos plantes.
    L ’importance des tests biologiques
    A ce stade de la recherche,il était important d ’analyser le contenu des extraits de nos deux plantes et d ’en déterminer
    leurs principes actifs.Malheureusement les tests neurocellulaires,exigeant un matériel hautement spécialisé et des
    heures de préparation,sont peu adaptables à des études de fractionnement chimique bioguidé,c ’est à dire que ces tests
    ne peuvent pas servir à rechercher ou se situe l ’activité dans une série de fractions obtenue par fractionnement chimique.
    Nous avons donc du mettre au point un test biologique simple,utilisable en routine,mettant en évidence l ’action de la
    ciguatoxine du Pacifi que P-CTX-1 (principale toxine responsable des symptômes observés au cours de l ’intoxication
    ciguatérique dans la région Pacifi que Sud).L ’action hémolysante des ciguatoxines sur les érythrocytes (globules
    rouges),en relation avec l ’entrée d ’eau dans les cellules décrite ci-dessus,a tout d ’abord été retenue et nous avons ainsi
    pu montrer que l ’activité de l ’extrait de feuilles de faux-tabac (Argusia argentea pu montrer que l ’activité de l ’extrait de feuilles de faux-tabac (Argusia argentea pu montrer que l ’activité de l ’extrait de feuilles de faux-tabac ()était due à sa forte concentration en
    calcium.Mais ce phénomène d ’hémolyse des globules rouges ne semble pas dépendre d ’un blocage des canaux sodium
    comme cela est le cas lors d ’intoxication ciguatérique.Aussi nous avons du étudier l ’effet de nos plantes sur un autre
    test,un test de cytotoxicité sur des cellules nerveuses,qui met en jeu ces fameux canaux sodium.
    Actuellement,nos études sont loin d ’être terminées et plusieurs plantes sont encore à l ’étude pour leur potentiel
    “ anticiguatérique ”.
    Ce type de recherche démontre donc bien l ’importance et la diffi culté de mise en œuvre des tests biologiques.
    En effet,les tests retenus doivent permettre la mise en évidence d ’une activité biologique bien corrélée à une indication
    traditionnelle,permettant de ainsi de conclure ou non à la validité de l ’usage signalé.De plus,ils doivent aussi être
    relativement simples et reproductibles.
    Dans notre cas,nous espérons que le principe actif des feuilles du «faux tabac »,plante traditionnellement utilisée contre
    la ciguatéra et démontrant une excellente activité,pourra bientôt être isolé et connu,par le biais de techniques classiques
    en phytochimie.Ensuite,suivant l ’incidence de la maladie et l ’intérêt que peuvent lui porter les industriels,le remède
    traditionnel ou le médicament pourra être développé et valorisé.
    Par Geneviève Bourdy et Dominique Laurent
  4. Rosiebud

    Rosiebud New Member

    and will get back to you soon as I have translation, might be a week or so though as daughter busy with studies.

    Rosie
  5. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    No problem, just whenever you're ready.
    I appreciate it a great deal. :)

    Christine
  6. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    Rosie,
    I just figured out how to use babelfish for the whole article, and the translation was actually pretty good.
    I'll post it if anyone's interested!
    :) Christine
  7. lbconstable

    lbconstable New Member

    I'm definately interested!

    -Laurie
  8. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    A few phrases and terms are translated oddly, but you can still make sense out of it. I've emailed one of the authors of this paper to ask if any follow-up tests were performed on the plants they mentioned.

    Once again, the C+P means weird indents and such. I don't have it in me to go through it and clean it up, sorry.
    -----------------------

    Ethnopharmacology and ciguateric intoxication
    "scrapes" called thus by the intense demonstration of prurit cutaneous generalized that it causes, is one
    intoxication related to the fish consumption themselves contaminated by the ingestion of benthic algae
    unicellular whipped Gambierdiscus kind. The toxins are transmitted along the food chain and
    concentrate until obtaining a sufficient rate to cause a ciguateric intoxication at the man. One
    great number of fish species can be toxic, in particular the carnivores. Majority toxins
    implied in this intoxication are the maitotoxine (MTX) and the ciguatoxines (CTX), which are among more
    powerful isolated marine toxins.
    An intoxication for serious and multiple purposes
    The effects of this poisoning appear by a generalized weakness, a feeling of prurit more or less
    intense of the skin and the mucous membranes, the articular pains, nauseas associated with digestive symptoms (diarrhoeas,
    cramps, etc.) and of the neurological symptoms. In the serious cases, cardiac and respiratory symptoms
    appear and can result in death. There exists only little of treatments looking after this intoxication, the majority being
    symptomatic (complex vitamin B, antidiarrheic, antihistamine), even if the use of substances
    antagonists "atropine-like" seems promising. The high prevalence of this intoxication in the Pacific, returning
    certain completely unsuitable littoral zones with sins, involves economic important problems.
    Plants usually used by the islanders
    This particular type of poisoning is very well-known islanders and clearly distinguished from the other intoxications
    food being able to occur following the fish ingestion. People living in New Caledonia, in the Vanuatu
    and in a general way in the Pacific, use treatments containing plant to look after, prevent or attenuate
    this intoxication. In general, the treatment is always curative and the majority of the species used have also the reputation
    to be antidiarrheic, antirhumatismales, or analgesics. Their use in the case of a ciguateric intoxication
    would be then certainly symptomatic. However some species seem more particularly specific of
    the ciguateric intoxication and show a strong convergence of use in the Pacific. There are also plants which
    are used jointly with fish during its cooking, in the intention "detoxifying it". However this practice
    remain doubtful, because the ciguatoxines are insoluble in water and resistant to heat. Lastly, a made preparation
    starting from a species originating par excellence in Polynesia, "fruit with bread" (Artocarpus
    starting from a species originating par excellence in Polynesia, "fruit with bread" (
    starting from a species originating par excellence in Polynesia, "fruit with bread" (
    altilis), would be managed
    regularly as of childhood like "vaccine".
    A list of almost one hundred plants was drawn up
    In 1990, a research program intended to evaluate the therapeutic potential of the plants used in medicine
    traditional to treat will ciguatéra it was launched in center IRD of. The confirmation of the therapeutic action
    of a traditional remedy against will ciguatéra and of its harmlessness, would be of a great interest for all the islanders of
    The Pacific and in particular for the isolated populations whose principal proteinic contribution depends on consumption
    of fish.
    One of the objectives of this research is thus to be able to recommend plants found active and not-poisons,
    and also to be able to propose sachets of plants dried to take out of infusion as of the appearance of symptoms
    digestive in accordance with the coral fish consumption.
    Moreover, being given the evolution of tourism to a world scale, one currently leads to an increase in case
    in the nonendemic countries of will ciguatéra. The development of a drug which can mitigate or counter the effects
    persons in charge for this intoxication would be of an important therapeutic interest since at the present time this product
    fact cruelly defect. But which industrialist will be interested by the development of such a drug?
    A list of almost 100 plants used in traditional medicine was thus drawn up following our studies
    ethnopharmacologic. Some of these species were selected and tested on mouse poisoned with liver
    of murene Gymnothorax javanicus (treatment of reference being the mannitol and the tocainide). Two species among
    the most used, "the false tobacco" Argusia argentea (Boraginaceae) and "the false pepper plant" Schinus terebenthifolius
    (Anacardiaceae), showed a strong restorer activity on the mouse. Some others were toxic.
    But contrary to the man, the mice seem to eliminate the ciguatoxines rather quickly and thus do not represent
    not a good models animal.
    Two plants with the promising effects
    In order to supplement our study and in collaboration with the team of Dr. Jordi Molgó of the Laboratory of Neurobiology
    Cellular and Molecular of the CNRS of GIF on Yvette, we had recourse to experiments on the axons
    myelinized and junctions neuromusculaires isolated from frog. These tests made it possible to show that the extracts of
    sheets ofArgusia argentea and rhizomes of Davallia solida (Davalliaceae) are able to counterbalance some
    neurocellulaires effects of the ciguatoxine-1B of the Pacific. Indeed, the ciguatoxines block in open position of
    channels which are located has the surface of the nerves. By these channels thus will return of the ions sodium which will start
    information represented by the peaks on the Aci-dessous diagram. We thus see that for a stimulus in condition
    normal, we have a peak (pilot) and that in the presence of ciguatoxine (CTX-1B), we have a succession of peaks which
    Page 2
    involve a discharge of information and thus of nerve impulse. When we treat our cell with one of both
    selected plants (CTX-1B + A. argentea), we eliminate this cascade from peaks and we find the normal state.
    On the photographs B taken below in electronic microscopy, we observe the swelling of the nerves when they
    are treated with ciguatoxine. This is easily explainable since always by these channels blocked in position
    opened, from water will return in the nerves to counter the osmotic change of pressure caused by the entry of ions
    sodium. This swelling also will be eliminated by the treatment with one from our plants.
    Importance of the biological tests
    This stage of research, it was important to analyze the contents of the extracts of our two plants and to determine some
    their active ingredients. Unfortunately the tests neurocellulaires, requiring a material highly specialized and
    hours of preparation, are not very adaptable to studies of bioguidé chemical fractionation, i.e. that these tests
    cannot be used to seek or is located the activity in a series of fractions obtained by chemical fractionation.
    We have thus to develop a biological test simple, usable in routine, highlighting the action of
    ciguatoxine of the Pacific P-CTX-1 (principal toxin responsible for the symptoms observed during the intoxication
    ciguateric in the Southern Peaceful area). The haemolysing action of the ciguatoxines on the érythrocytes (globules
    reds), in relation to the water entry in the cells described above, was first of all retained and we have thus
    been able to show that the activity of the extract of sheets of false-tobacco (Argusia argentea
    been able to show that the activity of the extract of sheets of false-tobacco (
    been able to show that the activity of the extract of sheets of false-tobacco (
    ) was due to its strong concentration in
    calcium. But this phenomenon of hémolyse of the red globules does not seem to depend on a blocking of the channels sodium
    as that is the case at the time of ciguateric intoxication. Also we have to study the effect of our plants on another
    test, a test of cytotoxicity on nervous cells, which brings into play these famous channels sodium.
    Currently, our studies are far from being finished and several plants are still being studied for their potential
    "anticiguateric".
    This type of research thus shows well the importance and the difficulty of setting in?uvre of the biological tests.
    Indeed, the tests selected must allow the description of a biological activity good correlated an indication
    traditional, allowing thus to conclude or not with the validity from the announced use. Moreover, they must also be
    relatively simple and reproducible.
    In our case, we hope that the active ingredient of the sheets of the "false tobacco", plants traditionally used against
    will ciguatéra and showing an excellent activity, could soon be insulated and known, by the means of traditional techniques
    in phytochemistry. Then, according to the incidence of the disease and the interest which the industrialists can carry to him, the remedy
    traditional or the drug could be developed and developed.
    By Genevieve Bourdy and Domenica Laurent
    Contact-authors: yuruma@cayenne.ird.fr
    yuruma@cayenne.ird.fr
    dominique.laurent@noumea.ird.nc
    Page 3
    To know some more
    Bourdy G, Cabalion P., Amade P., Laurentd D. - 1992 - Traditional remedies used in the Western Pacific for the
    treatment of will ciguatera poisoning. Newspaper of Ethnopharmacology, 36 : 163-174.
    Laurent D., Joannot P., Amade P., Maesse P., and Colmet-Daage B. - 1992 - Knowledge one will ciguatera in Noumea (New-
    Calédonie). International Ivth Conference one Ciguatera Fish Poisoning. Bull. Ploughshare. Path. E.g., 85 : 520.
    Laurent D., Bourdy G, Amade P., Cabalion P., Bourret D. - 1993 - "scrapes" or will ciguatéra and its remedies
    traditional in the Southern Pacific. Editions of the ORSTOM, collection Didactic, Paris. 135p.
    Benoit E, Juzans P., Legrand A.M., Molgó J, 1996. Nodal swelling produced by ciguatoxin-induced selective activation
    of sodium channels in myelinated nerve fibers. Neuroscience 71 : 1121-1131.
    Benoit E, Laurent D., Mattei C, Legrand A.M., and Molgo J. - 2000 - Reversal of pacific ciguatoxin-1B effects one
    myelinated let us center by agents used in will ciguatera treatment. Cybium (Rev. Eur. Ichtyol.), 24 (3): 33-40.
    Boydron R., Laurent D. and Sauviat M-P. - 2001 - A biological test intended to identify the active ingredients of the plants
    used as traditional remedies against the ciguateric intoxication. To explore, exploit toxins and to control them
    producing organizations. Edts Elsevier, Paris, 63 - 66.
    Boydron R., Sauviat M-P, Benoit E, Molgo J, Laurent D. - 2002 - The hémolyse of the human érythrocytes by the P-CTX-
    1: a method to evaluate the therapeutic potential of the traditional remedies used in New Caledonia for
    to treat will ciguatéra it. Biomedical toxins and research. Scientific and medical editions Elsevier. Paris, 101-104.

  9. lbconstable

    lbconstable New Member

    Thanks Christine.

    No problem on cleaning it up!

    Laurie
  10. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    You know, I looked for a paper like this because I was hoping there was something I could experiment with to lower ciguatoxin levels (assuming I have them - I haven't been able to get the test).

    But I re-read over one of the earlier NCF articles about viruses/ciguatoxin and realised they believed the ciguatoxin could be being produced within the body to suppress the virus. So probably trying to eliminate it without getting a big picture is not a good thing to experiment with at this point.

    Christine
  11. lbconstable

    lbconstable New Member

    Christine-

    I didn't know about the possible relationship with ciquatera and virus'. I read about the ciquatera relationship with CFS awhile back, but couldn't find any more recent info on it. Food for thought for sure!

    I have tested positive for chronic reactivation of Human Herpes-6 and Epstein-Barr. I'm treating with Transfer Factors. I wonder if we get the virus' under control if the ciquatera won't go away on it's own?

    Laurie

  12. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    Hi again Laurie,
    Have a look at my recent posts in my profile - I've explained some of the research on ciguatoxin and viruses.
    Basically it's not the actual fish poison, but a toxin almost identical to it, being produced within our bodies, possibly by a pathogen. So what you're saying is spot-on... it seems if we can get rid of the virus, this toxin should stop being produced.
    I do believe TF's work for some people, but I'm far far far from convinced it's the answer for everyone. Still a lot to understand about viruses, but I think some better treatments will emerge in the not-too-distant future.

    [This Message was Edited on 09/25/2005]