Clenbuterol, oxandrolone, citalopram

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Ales, Jun 11, 2009.

  1. Ales

    Ales New Member

    After 11 years of ME/CFS, hundreds of medicines I have tried I can say that for me the most helpful are the three following ones: citalopram, oxandrolone and clenbuterol. What they have in common in relation to my ME/CFS is probalby a specific immunosuppresive and neuroprotective effect.
  2. hensue

    hensue New Member

    Those were very interesting when I looked them up. I was in the sun yesterday and day before with Grandchildren. I can barely talk or get out of bed so fatigued today. You can hear it in my voice.
    How much do you take of each and can you explain how they worked for you.

    Thanks so much for sharing!!!
    Hensue
  3. Ales

    Ales New Member

    Hi,

    clenbuterol is an agonist of beta 2 adrenergic receptors. It is primarily intended for the treatment of people suffering from bronchial asthma as it works as a bronchodilatans. It also works as a tocolytic agent and so it may be used to postpone delivery. Clenbuterol is not free in EU, however, as far as I know it is not even registered in the USA. So clenbuterol is a common medicine that is, like all the other ones, used by ill people. The fact that it is abused by bodybuilders is another problem. Generally, clenbuterol taken as a medicine has very few side effects. Consider, to the contrary, the highly toxic and dangerous antivirals that have been tried as a treatment of ME/CFS.

    In my opinion ME/CFS will in the future split into more nosological units. I would estimate that 5% of all those, who are diagnosed as suffering from ME/CFS, actually have the same illness as me and the same estimate holds for most of people diagnosed with this illness. I call my illness a Postviral Idiopathic Encephalopathy since it started suddenly like a viral infection and manifests itself like a brain disease.

    I think it is important that there are some adrenergic receptors (probably roughly 700 000) even in the brain itself and clenbuterol manages to pass the blood-brain barrier. So clenbuterol affects via these receptors probably all the brain.


    Ales, EU
  4. cfsgeorge

    cfsgeorge New Member


    I was both a bodybuilder and primary care physician in the state of california.

    What do you mean clenbuterol is abused by bodybuilders? please explain.

    clenbuterol is an agonist of beta 2 adrenergic receptors which are found mainly in fat cells with a very long half-life. and yes, some are found in the brain. so what? How do you justify the use of clenbuterol for the treatment of CFS/ME with that statement? I think that is terrible medical advice for anyone suffering form CFS/ME.

    George of USA
  5. Ales

    Ales New Member

    > I was both a bodybuilder and primary care physician in the state of california.

    This statement has no relation to the veracity of my assertions, likewise I worked as a theoretical physicist before the onset of my illness in 1998 and now I work in an Instutute of Physiology in the department of Biomathematics and despite this all what I write or say could be complete nonsense. :)

    > What do you mean clenbuterol is abused by bodybuilders? please explain.

    See: "Gym users and abuse of prescription drugs", J R Soc Med 2006;99:331-332.

    > How do you justify the use of clenbuterol for the treatment of CFS/ME with that statement?

    How do you justify the use of anything for the treatment of CFS/ME with any statement? Etiology, pathogenesis and cure of ME/CFS are not known. What we have are some studies that indicate that some drugs are effective for some subsets of pacients with ME/CFS, next we have a multifarious garbage of pseudoscience, multitudes of quacks trying to gain money or glory from the suffering of CFS/ME patients. What I offered was an anecdotal evidence. I don't know, why the three drugs I mentioned worked for me, I have only hypotheses. I was only trying to explain why clenbuterol could be effective. I consider my ME/CFS to be primarily an encephalopathy. I tried to point out a less known fact of these receptors being present in the brain. But clenbuterol could have helped me because of its antiinflamatory properties or because of some of its other properties or something else and not clenbuterol helped me. Remember, I haven't done any double blind placebo controlled etc. study with clenbuterol.

    > I think that is terrible medical advice for anyone suffering form CFS/ME.

    I disagree. Actually if you suffer from ME/CFS and asthma it may be life saving or one of the best medical advice for you. Further there are many patients with CFS/ME who take large amounts of highly toxic antibiotics or still more toxic antivirals for extended periods of time, in comparison with this clenbuterol seems to be prety harmless if taken in reasonable doses.

    Dear George, that's all I wanted to write with respect to clenbuterol. It just seems to me that clenbuterol significantly helped me and I wanted to share this information with others. Only very rarely do I read posts from this board and I almost never contribute since English is not my native language and it takes me too much time to write a message.

    What I have in mind for the future is to rigorously prove that in at least in a carefully selected subset of patients with ME/CFS there indeed is an encephalopathy present. I would like to take the SPECT/CT scans of patients with ME/CFS and to prove that the brain perfusion is statistically significantly different from the controls via the use of the methods of the theory of geometry of random fields as have been done by Worsely et al. in the case of fMRI etc.

    Ales