Cold sores and, or ulcers in mouth

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by mrpain, May 1, 2006.

  1. mrpain

    mrpain New Member

    I don't know if it's cold sores or ulcers, or both. Maybe it's neither. But I get these sores in my gums that are very sore,and they come when I'm at my worse. Is this a viral infection that flares during fibro? Is this part of fibro or maybe cfs? Does anyone else have this happen to them during a flare?

    I have both cfs and fibro and this has been going on since the beginning over 20 years ago. I always notice that when my gums are broken out in these little blisters or sores, I am feeling my worse. Just completely out of sorts.
  2. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    They are caused by a Herpes-Family Virus, Herpes Simplex. I had been a bit run down and my allergies were bothering me. Still, I almost never have one break out full blown. I have an antiviral med and topical Zovirax, which usually does the trick. This one just hung on and hung on. It's gone now. Applying ice to the cold sore hurts like hell but it helps kill the virus. I iced my lip all day long.

    Love, Mikie
  3. mrpain

    mrpain New Member

    Yes, mine are always inside my mouth, mostly on the gums above my upper teeth or below my lower teeth. They definitely get your attention. Is that viral? and what helps to get rid of them? They do come in clusters, and sometimes I can go a long time without getting any, but sooner or later, they're back........
  4. pam_d

    pam_d New Member

    cold sores (outside) and canker sores (inside) are different; cold sores are the Herpes virus, canker sores are not. You are right to notice that canker sores on the gums come when you feel your worst---they usually erupt when your immune system is at its lowest. As you feel better all over, the sores usually start healing, too.

  5. Greenbean7

    Greenbean7 New Member

    I always thought cold sores and canker sores were the same, just inside and outside the mouth respectively.

    I Googled canker sores and this is what I found. Very interesting!! This is from Animated Teeth.

    What causes canker sores?

    The precise mechanism by which canker sores form has not been definitively determined but it is likely that their development is related to a reaction of an individual's own immune system.

    Canker sores are thought to form when, for unexplained reasons, a person's immune system identifies the presence of chemical molecules that it does not recognize. The presence of these molecules activates an attack by the immune system's lymphocytes (a type of white blood cell), somewhat similar as when a person's immune system attacks a transplanted organ. The carnage created by the lymphocytes' attack on these unrecognized molecules results in the formation of mouth ulcers. We term these ulcers canker sores.

    What triggers outbreaks of canker sores?

    Several factors that seem to be triggers for outbreaks of canker sores have been identified. Any one or a combination of the following items may play a role in the formation of canker sores for any one individual:

    Toothpastes and mouthwashes that contain sodium lauryl sulfate.

    Research has suggested that the use of products that contain sodium lauryl sulfate ("SLS"), a foaming agent found in most toothpaste and mouthwash formulations, can be associated with an increased recurrence rate of canker sores for an individual. This may be due to a drying effect SLS has on the protective surface of oral tissues. Once this protective layer has been compromised the tissue underneath is more vulnerable to irritants such as acidic foods.

    Several studies have reported that participants who brushed using SLS free toothpaste found that they experienced a reduction in the total number of canker sores that they had form. This reduction in mouth sores was found to be as high as 81% in one study. In this same study also reported that some of its participants stated that the canker sores that did form were less painful than those that developed during those time periods when they had been using a toothpaste that did contain SLS.

    Mechanical trauma.

    People state that they often recall some sort of physical trauma preceding the formation of their canker sores. This trauma might take the form of a self-inflicted bite, irritation from a sharp tooth edge, or possibly trauma from some type of food such as a crisp chip. 38% of the participants of one study felt that their canker sores were precipitated by trauma.

    Emotional stress / Psychic stress.

    Psychological stress has been shown to adversely affect the health of people in a number of ways. Many people who suffer from canker sores report that the appearances of their ulcers coincide with periods of stress.

    Nutritional deficiencies.

    Researchers have detected that some people who suffer from canker sores have an underlying nutritional deficiency. Some of the nutritional deficiencies that have been correlated with the presence of canker sores are:
    ? Vitamin deficiencies: B1, B2, B6, B12, C
    ? Other nutrients: zinc, folic acid, iron, selenium, calcium

    Allergies and sensitivities.

    Allergies to foods and other substances have been postulated as being triggers for canker sore breakouts. Any substance that comes into contact with the person's oral tissues must be considered to be a potential causative agent. If an allergy is suspected the individual might choose to maintain a diary so to help them (and their dentist) identify the most likely candidates associated with the causation of their sores. In some cases allergy testing might be considered.

    Some of the substances identified by researchers as being potential triggers for canker sore outbreaks are:
    ? Cereal grains: buckwheat, wheat, oats, rye, barley, the gluten protein found in grains
    ? Fruits and vegetables: lemons, oranges, pineapples, apples, figs, tomatoes, strawberries
    ? Dairy: milk, cheeses
    ? Other foods: nuts, chocolate, shellfish, soy, vinegar, French mustard
    ? Additives: cinnamonaldehyde (a flavoring agent), benzoic acid (a preservative)
    ? Other substances: toothpastes, mints, gums, dental materials, metals, medications

    Hormonal changes.

    Some women have reported that they find a relationship between the presence of canker sores and certain phases of their menstrual period. It has also been reported that a woman may notice a remission of canker sores during pregnancy. Neither of these observations has been adequately documented nor explained by research.

    Some researchers have felt that they have identified a genetic predisposition for canker sores. One study found that 35% of those persons who experience canker sores have at least one parent who suffers from these ulcers also. Another study found that 91% of identical twins both suffered from canker sores whereas only 57% of fraternal twins did.

    Infectious agents (both bacterial and viral).

    The fact that chemical compounds typically associated with bacterial and viral infections have been isolated from canker sores suggests that bacteria or viruses could be causative agents in the formation of these mouth ulcers.
    Medical conditions.

    Several different medical conditions can be associated with the presence of canker sores (and other forms of aphthous ulcers as well). For those patients who experience persistent difficulties with canker sores consideration must be given to the presence of an underlying undiagnosed systemic disease and the need for an evaluation and testing by a physician.

    A few of the medical conditions that have been associated with the presence of mouth ulcers are: Behcet's disease, neutrophil dysfunction diseases, inflammatory bowel diseases (celiac and Crohn's), and HIV-AIDS.


    The use of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), beta blockers, chemotherapeutic agents, and nicorandil have each been reported as possibly acting as a trigger for outbreaks of canker sores.

    I didn't know any of this!!

  6. srh

    srh New Member

    I never had a cold sore in my life until 16 yrs ago when we moved from CO to NE. And about 3-4 years before getting sick with this.

    And you all might think I'm crazy (I am) but it helps if I always use Puffs. Still get some every great while. But everytime I use a napkin or something else, even KLeenexes, I get one.
  7. UnicornK

    UnicornK New Member

    I'm battling canker sores right now. Been under some stress lately. Turned off my light and saw 2 guys outside my living room window, on the porch, watching me. It was after 1 in the morning! I have PTSD, so you can imagine what my sleep has been like lately.

    I sure hope these go away soon! Yours too.

    God Bless.
  8. mollystwin

    mollystwin New Member

    helps with cancer sores. Once I got them real bad and my neighbor told me this. Also your dr can presribe the drug they give for herpes, cant' remember the name of it. That works real well too.
  9. jenni4736

    jenni4736 New Member

    I think they are pretty common with FM. My specialist said our immune systems are so "outta whack" (his term) that they are common during flairs. Mine have ALL happened in THIS cycle I am in. I have had FM for 12 years and can never remember having one until this cycle.

    I have had a lot of problems with allergies this cycle. Those are new for me too. I know several people think there is a link and there may be something to that.

    My allergist gave me a RX for Triamicinolone Acetonide Dental Paste. It is gritty but it doesn't taste bad. That has worked very well.

    I have recently begun keeping a journal for food, drinks and a quick overview of my day. I am undegoing allergy tests later this week to see if we can isolate anything, but the allergies are getting progressivly worse for me so I'm not real sure how much good that will be. The last episode got me a TWIN JET (like an epi-pen).

    Anyway, my point was you may want to keep a journal as well. It may help to isolate a common ingredient that is giving you grief. If it persists, I would see an allergist or be persistant with your treating doctor. There are some pains they can't fully take away, but this they CAN help with.

    NO ONE knows your body better than you. If something isn't right, persue it with all you have until it is better. Good Luck!
    [This Message was Edited on 05/02/2006]
  10. Fibrolady37

    Fibrolady37 New Member

    i have a mouthful of ulcers on each side of my mouth & under my tongue.
    I get cold sores when im really run down & out of sorts.
    Cold sores are from the herpes virus which lays dormant in our bodies & when were at our worst & really run down they surface.
    I had ulcers when i saw my rheumatologist i was dx with sygrens syndrome which is an autoimmune illness which attacks our immune system.
    They are either part of fms or part of sygrrns syndrome if you have it.
    Hope this help.
  11. musicmel23

    musicmel23 New Member

    I get them in my month once in awhile. Sometimes they come along extreme PMS symptoms.
  12. mrpain

    mrpain New Member

    Wow! You people are awesome! Thanks for all the information. And greenbean, thanks for the time you spent and all your efforts.. It does seem to come when I'm in a hugh flare, and yet, I can be in a hugh flare with the absense of the canker sores also.... But more times with it.
  13. Nikki

    Nikki Member

    I've had cs since I was a teenager. I am now 60.

    The thing that has worked best for me is:

    Biotene toothpaste (no SLS) and Biotene mouthwash. It's also good for dry mouth . . . which most of us suffer from.

    I haven't had a full blown canker sore since I started using this, and I had them all the time . . . and always more than 2 at a time. I even had shingles in my mouth. Talk about miserable. My ENT dx'd it b/c all the canker sores (and I had a mouth full) were only on one side of mouth.

    It's a little pricey . . . but very worth it not to have that miserable pain.

    Now, when I'm run down, I'll start to get that tingling feeling that tells me here comes a cs, but it just never develops to the point that it hurts. It clears up.

    I use to use Rembrant for Canker Sores. It worked most of the time, but not all of time.

    Hope this is helpful.

  14. valleydoll

    valleydoll New Member

    I started using Biotene Mouthwash after a fibro buddy told me about it. BUT while visiting our Son & family in Ark., I used their toothpaste and noticed I didn't have to use the Biotene!!! It is Crest Whitening plus Scope ~~ haven't had an outbreak since I've been using this. It really surprised ME!! Good luck to you.
    [This Message was Edited on 05/03/2006]
  15. Nikki

    Nikki Member

    thanks for that bit of info. I think I'll give it a try, too.

  16. Strawberry94

    Strawberry94 New Member

    My husband gets these from time to time. He changed tooth paste to Rembrant c. sore formula and that helped a lot. I also give him b vitamins especially b12 and that seems to help.
    [This Message was Edited on 05/15/2006]
  17. rinaldo

    rinaldo New Member

    Hi , I have been getting more canker sores in my mouth gums and side of cheeks then ever before. Im on Nystatin, and valtrex i think its making them worse . So painful. My doctor said to gargle with milk of mag. It help temp.

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