Complete Remission Of CFS Symptoms? (CFIDS Thread)

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by RadioFM, Feb 1, 2015.

  1. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    Normalization of the increased translocation of endotoxin from gram negative enterobacteria (leaky gut) is accompanied by a remission of chronic fatigue syndrome.

    Abstract
    "There is now evidence that chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is accompanied by an increased translocation of endotoxins from gram-negative enterobacteria through the gut wall, as demonstrated by increased prevalences and median values for serum IgM and IgA against the endotoxins of gram-negative enterobacteria. This condition can also be described as increased gut permeability or leaky gut and indicates intestinal mucosal dysfunction (IMD). Here we report a case of a 13 year old girl with CFS who showed very high values for serum IgM against the LPS of some enterobacteria and signs of oxidative and nitrosative stress, activation of the inflammatory response system, and IgG3 subclass deficiency. Upon treatment with specific antioxidants and a "leaky gut diet", which both aim to treat increased gut permeability, and immunoglobins intravenously, the increased translocation of the LPS of gram negative enterobacteria normalized and this normalization was accompanied by a complete remission of the CFS symptoms."


    See more here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18063928





    Please links review:

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
    Alyssa-Admin likes this.
  2. Alyssa-Admin

    Alyssa-Admin Active Member

  3. Alyssa-Admin

    Alyssa-Admin Active Member

    Very interesting! There is just so much that is unknown about these conditions...the sad thing is whether or not this treatment and diet is followed through (Read accepted as the way to treat CFS). Thank you very much for sharing this, I am sure others will find this interesting!
  4. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    Abstract
    "There is now evidence that chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is accompanied by immune disorders and by increased oxidative stress."

    "The present study has been designed in order to examine the serum concentrations of IgA and IgM to LPS of gram-negative enterobacteria, i.e. Hafnia alvei; Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Morganella morganii, Proteus mirabilis, Pseudomonas putida, Citrobacter koseri, and Klebsiella pneumoniae in CFS patients, patients with partial CFS and normal controls."

    "We found that the prevalences and median values for serum IgA against the LPS of enterobacteria are significantly greater in patients with CFS than in normal volunteers and patients with partial CFS. Serum IgA levels were significantly correlated to the severity of illness, as measured by the FibroFatigue scale and to symptoms, such as irritable bowel, muscular tension, fatigue, concentration difficulties, and failing memory."

    "The results show that enterobacteria are involved in the etiology of CFS and that an increased gut–intestinal permeability has caused an immune response to the LPS of gram-negative enterobacteria. It is suggested that all patients with CFS should be checked by means of the IgA panel used in the present study and accordingly should be treated for increased gut permeability."


    See more here: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032706003557
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  5. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member


    -Cyrex Labs can test for the presence of antibodies to the LPS antigens in the blood.


    See more here: Lipopolysaccharide | Cyrex Labs -(Leaky Gut TEST)

    -Also, review how oxidative stress can activate the inflammatory response (Here).

    Please review more related testing info on other possible multi-systemic infections (Here).
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
  6. Alyssa-Admin

    Alyssa-Admin Active Member

    It's all very interesting, complicated and complex isn't it?! The thing that I find is that there are these studies and info and data out there....yet, doctors continue to throw medication at us, which only masks the symptoms....instead of HEALING from the inside... It's just putting a bandage on it all. That's why it is great that there are forums such as this where more information and data is discussed....I think that it is so important to be well researched...and decide how much or how little pharmaceuticals vs natural supplements you want playing a part in your life...and then looking and going to specialists, functional medicine (which I have never heard of in the UK!). RadioFM do you think in the States if you went to your GP and asked for an IgA panel? (I think my GP would say, 'what is that exactly'...do her research...and come back to tell me that she couldn't find any specialists who are treating patients differently.

    A.
  7. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member


    Most GP will not have the comprehensive understanding of the causative factors of disease.

    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
  8. Alyssa-Admin

    Alyssa-Admin Active Member

    Yep...My GP openly admits to me knowing more than she does about CFS and FM...and she's fine with it...luckily. I even send her interesting articles that may help her and other patients that I know she has with FM. I have actually never heard of functional medicine being practiced here in the UK...in fact, the closest Naturopath to me is 2 hours away! I think the thing is, the NHS is free...not great, but free, western medicine that generally doesn't ever get to the root of the problem and just covers up the symptoms. Funny that this is the ACCEPTED way of practicing medicine?!
    RadioFM likes this.
  9. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Here is a paper that was just published on dec. 17 2014.

    The gut microbiome and the brain.

    The human gut microbiome impacts human brain health in numerous ways: (1) Structural bacterial components such as lipopolysaccharides provide low-grade tonic stimulation of the innate immune system. Excessive stimulation due to bacterial dysbiosis, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, or increased intestinal permeability may produce systemic and/or central nervous system inflammation. (2) Bacterial proteins may cross-react with human antigens to stimulate dysfunctional responses of the adaptive immune system. (3) Bacterial enzymes may produce neurotoxic metabolites such as D-lactic acid and ammonia. Even beneficial metabolites such as short-chain fatty acids may exert neurotoxicity. (4) Gut microbes can produce hormones and neurotransmitters that are identical to those produced by humans. Bacterial receptors for these hormones influence microbial growth and virulence. (5) Gut bacteria directly stimulate afferent neurons of the enteric nervous system to send signals to the brain via the vagus nerve. Through these varied mechanisms, gut microbes shape the architecture of sleep and stress reactivity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. They influence memory, mood, and cognition and are clinically and therapeutically relevant to a range of disorders, including alcoholism, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and restless legs syndrome. Their role in multiple sclerosis and the neurologic manifestations of celiac disease is being studied. Nutritional tools for altering the gut microbiome therapeutically include changes in diet, probiotics, and prebiotics.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25402818

    Although I do agree with most everything here. What I find most interesting is that dysbiosis and/or leaky gut
    can cause hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis dysfunction. The HPA directly or indirectly influences adrenal function and thyroid functions, which control MANY, MANY functions in the body. This can cause fatigue, anxiety, insomnia, depression, and a general inabilty to deal with stress very well as well as other symptoms. (which is a general overview of how I often feel, although I am able to keep a positive perspective usually anyway) :)
    There is research that connects HPA dysfunction in people with CFS, which makes a lot of sense to me.

    All the best- Jim


    RadioFM likes this.
  10. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    This, of course is a very old study by Michael Maes one which we followed carefully. We have had 12 people follow the regime under the assumption that leaky gut and LPS transmigration. The treatment was always helpful but no one went into complete, permanent remission. The follow up of the above case was not reported so we are left wondering if the patient's remission was permanent.

    I have always promoted treatment of leaky gut in Me/CFS and FM but at this stage it still remains a co-pathology or a consequence of the illness. It would be nice if it was the cause - easy treated!
  11. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    @IanH - According to this write up the 13 year old girl remained well 2 years into treatment. http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2011/03/leaky-gut-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.html

    Did the people that you had follow the leaky gut treatment treat the underlying cause of the leaky gut? Dysbiosis or small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) are often the cause of leaky gut. The reason I ask is because based on my experience treating dysbiosis and leaky gut, and following several functional medicine doctors that specialize in treating SIBO, it is often EXTREMELY difficult to treat.

    Even with antibiotics like rifaximin (an antibiotic that doesn't get absorbed into the bloodstream and therefore only treats the digestive tract) SIBO is often very difficult to treat. Therefore the leaky gut cannot be resolved until the dysbiosis, SIBO, chronic use of nsaids like ibuprofen and aleve or whatever the underlying cause may be is cleared first. How long were the patients you followed treated?

    Its my understanding that it can take a year or longer to fully treat sibo, dysbiosis and leaky gut. The 13 y.o in the above paper didn't experience any symptom relief for over 6 months and she was only 13! All the best -Jim
    RadioFM likes this.
  12. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    I feel Dysbiosis may only be part of the problem as these infections can become multi-systemic through out the body. The Lyme literate community has really brought light to the complexes of these microbes.

    I wanted to bring awareness to the fact that endotoxins from gram negative infections may need more testing and research. We now can test for the presence of antibodies to the LPS antigens in the blood.

    Note* Some may need to utilize antibiotic challenge testing to confirm presence.


    See more here: Lipopolysaccharide | Cyrex Labs
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
  13. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    Endotoxin
  14. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    Bacteriology 1.4: Endotoxin and Exotoxin
  15. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member


    The Truth About Adrenal Fatigue

  16. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    The Pathogen Toll-like Receptors Inflammatory Signaling Connection?



    Abstract

    "Toll-like receptors (TLRs) play a crucial role in host defence and inflammation. Given that a significant amount of evidence implicates TLRs in the pathogenesis of immune diseases and cancer, and their activation occurs early in the inflammatory cascade, they are attractive targets for novel therapeutic agents. Potential therapeutics include TLR-targeted antibodies, small molecules and nucleic acid based drugs. Agonists are being tested in vaccines against hepatitis C and influenza as well as in allergic rhinitis and certain cancers. Antagonists are being tested in ischemia/reperfusion injury, systemic lupus erythematosus and psoriasis. The prospect of targeting TLRs in multiple pathologies continues to hold much promise."


    See more here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22748800



    Immunology - Innate Immunity (Toll-Like Receptors)




    See more here:





    Note*
    Endotoxins "aka" Lipopolysaccharide molecule gives structural support to certain bacteria. It also can provoke a strong response from our immune system and activate the NO/ONOO- Cycle.


    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
  17. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Hello RadioFM-
    I agree that it is the immune response to LPS (lipopolysaccharides) that causes symptoms. It's my understanding that LPS in CFS causes th2 to become overactive and th1 to become under-active.

    Because the body recognizes the LPS as a bacterial component and the adaptive immune system (th2) becomes hyperactive in trying to destroy and clear the LPS from the bacteria. The th1-th2 immunity usually acts like a teeter-totter, when one side is overactive the other is under-active.

    Something else I find really interesting is that th1 (the innate immune system), the under-active arm of the immune system in CFS is the arm of the immune system that fights off viruses and bacteria in the cells. This could very well be why so many of us have high bacterial and viral loads of various pathogens. Because the th1 arm of the immune system is to weak to keep them in check.

    So the goal would be,as I see it, to raise th1 immunity which helps fight off pathogenic viruses and bacteria in the cells. This should automatically bring down the overactive th2, because when one arm is up the other comes down. The reading I have done says that Rieshi mushrooms and astragalus are good th1 boosters.

    I have been taking Reishi for just over 2 months now and seeing good results. I am also treating dysbiosis and leaky gut to get rid of the source of the LPS, and am making really good progress! All the best-Jim
  18. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member


    Hey Jim,

    You make some good points and I am all about seeing good progress! Please take a look at the pathogen Toll-like receptors inflammatory signaling video i posted. This may help us understand the possible causative factors related to the the innate immune system dysfunction and misregulated TLR activation or the TLR non-activation? o_O




    What Do Toll-Like Receptors Do?



    "A small number of Toll-like receptors can detect a broad range of human pathogens, as well as a variety of other molecules that indicate tissue damage, by a process called pattern recognition. These receptors initiate two arms of the immune response — the innate and adaptive responses — that work together to fight infection in mammals. The innate response provides immediate protection. However, it is relatively nonspecific in its mode of attack on pathogens, which results in damage to healthy tissue if the innate immune response lasts too long. The adaptive response, on the other hand, generates antibody-secreting B cells and cytotoxic T cells that are specific and efficient at targeting pathogen. Unfortunately, this process takes longer to develop than the innate response."


    "Because Toll-like receptors function as first responders to danger signals, they are centrally significant in research efforts to combat infectious and inflammatory disease. New strategies for manipulating immune responses depend on understanding the cell biology of Toll-like receptors, including their structure, cell localization, signal transduction pathways, and expression patterns."


    "Blocking TLR2 and TLR4 with antagonists may be useful in these circumstances to prevent an overactive immune response."


    Warning* Blocking TLR2 and TLR4 may not be advisable if you have a Combinations of single nucleotide polymorphisms?




    See more below:




    -There will always be complexes to any solution and variations to all healing strategies.



    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
  19. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    @RadioFM - I will take a look at the Pathogen Toll-like receptors video as soon as I can. That's a fascinating video on adrenal fatigue, thank you for that! I have felt for a while now that adrenal fatigue involved more than just the adrenal gland. That adrenal fatigue video makes a world of sense to me!
  20. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015