Cowden protocol? And some other questions help lease

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease Archives' started by Bunchy, Dec 18, 2007.

  1. Bunchy

    Bunchy New Member

    Hi everyone,

    Can anyone post me a description of Lee Cowden's herbal protocol? I can't find it anywhere.

    Also how does it compare to the Buhner protocol? Can't find that either..lol!

    I have started on Banderol (alternative to Samento) and Burbur - I have been taking five drops of Banderol twice a day and ten drops of Burbur in the evening. I only started this five days ago.

    There is no sign of a Herx - do I have to Herx to feel better or might I feel better anyway over time?

    How long should I continue these herbs before I can expect to notice an improvement?

    Also should I alternate the Banderol with, say, Cumanda to avoid resistance?

    Sorry for all the questions - I'm new to all this but I'm hoping I'm on the right track.

    Love Bunchy x
  2. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_285/ai_n19170373
  3. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Merry Xmas hotpepperfan,

    I've treated myself herbally for over 4 years now without a doctor. Our local holistic doctor prefers Monastery of Herbs Lyme Sets, which has a dangerous herb called chaparral in it, and it landed me in the hospital with a messed up liver and dangerously high potassium levels. So, I've been going it alone.

    Samento (Cowden Protocol) has helped some, especially with mood, energy, and chills, but I am not a good detoxifier, so gettng up to the dosage that is suggested has not been possible. I probably have both of the HLA DR4 genes that make it all but impossible to get rid of toxins.

    I already had a lot of organ damage before I found out it was really Lyme after being sick for 17 yrs., so I've had to watch for dangerous heart herxes and back off.

    I also get major neuro herxes which cause Lyme rage, and in order to stay married, I had to back way down on my dosage to stop the rages.

    I have done a modified original Cowden Protocol, after the Zhang Protocol failed to help despite 6 months of following it exactly, and the main herb on the Buhner Protocol (andrographis) raised my already high blood pressure and made my MCS a LOT worse.

    Samento is the only herb I take now. I did use Cumanda for awhile, until it no longer made me herx anymore at maximum dosage. Burbur did nothng for me. I found chlorella to be a better detoxifier for me.

    Samento makes me herx like crazy, and despite every detox I have tried, I can't get up to the 30 drop per day dose. 9 drops per day is the highest I ever got, and was barely able to function at that level. I only take 2 drops per day now in order to avoid neuro herxing rages and keep a roof over my head.

    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    INFO on the original Cowden Protocol can be found at www.samento.com.ec ..... then click on Lyme Borreliosis Science library and choose the article by Cowden, which is the 2nd or 3rd one listed, I think. You will need to print it out, since it is complicated. The new Cowden is much more complicated than the older one that I did.

    The newer Cowden should be able to be found in the same library, I would think. I will probably be kicked off this Board for providing you with the URL, unless they've changed the rules about posting them, so I sure hope you make use of it.

    For Buhner, you must buy his book. It is way too complicated to follow without a reference. His book can be found on his web site or at Amazon.com. I believe he provides a forum on his site for people who are following his protocol.

    LymeNet also has extensive discussions in their archives of their flash discussion section under medical questions, on both the Cowden and Buhner Protocols,as well as some info on the Zhang Protocol. Since Zhang and Buhner both have web sites, you can check those out as well.

    Good luck!

    Klutzo
  4. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Bunchy,
    I went to the samento library URL I gave you above, since I'd not been there in years, and the article by Cowden was gone, though there were many other good ones there that I would recommend. It took me about 15 mins. to find this by Googling, but here is a copy of the Cowden Protocol.......




    Treatment Protocol for Lyme Borreliosis (Wm. Lee Cowden, M.D.) :

    (Please note that we at health4youonline do not have experience with this protocol, or indeed one or two of these products, and we advise that this programme is undertaken only with the help of your medical advisor - we pass on the protocol purely for your information, but are unable to take any responsibility for it.*)

    Start with Cumanda 2 times a day before meals, preferably breakfast and supper. Begin with 2 drops per day - 1 drop 30 minutes before one meal and 1 drop 30 minutes before another meal, slowly building up to a full dose of 20 drops two times per day (40 drops a day).

    On the 2nd or 3rd week add Quina to the protocol. Begin with 2 drops per day - 1 drop 60 minutes before onoe meal and 1 drop 60 minutes before another meal, slowly building up to a full dose of 20 drops two times per day (40 drops a day).

    After full dose of each product is achieved, begin alternating between the Cumanda and Quina every two weeks. Take Cumanda for 12 1/2 days, stopping for 36 hours; then continue with the Quina for 12 1/2 days, stopping for 36 hours.

    Discontinue using Quina after 2 months of full dosage and begin using Samento the same days that Quina was taken.

    Continue to alternate between Cumanda and Samento for at least two to three months. Most patients with chronic, third stage Lyme Disease require four to six months of treatment but never less than two months.

    Burbur - Take 8 drops immediately before each meal and at bedtime. If feeling toxic, the patient should add an additional dosage after each meal.

    Bromelain - Take 5 or 6 tablets/capsules twice daily (400-600mg) with Samento, Cumanda or Quina.

    Chlorella - Take 3 capsules twice daily with Samento, Cumanda or Quina.

    Magnesium Malate - Take 2 to 6 capsules per day with Samento, Cumanda or Quina. Consider reducing the dose if the bowels are too loose.

    Water - drink 3 quarters or litres of pure drinking water per day.

    Diet - Blood Type Diet is recommended. (see website ww.dadamo.com)

    All Nutramedix liquid extracts should be taken at least 20 minutes apart from each other.

    All Nutramedix liquid extracts should be mixed with 4 ounces (120ml) of pure drinking water, let sit for at least 60 seconds, then drink.

    If fungal overgrowth is present, use Cumanda at full dose for 2 months before alternating and avoid sugars, fruits, fruit juices and starches.



    Klutzo
  5. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Dear hotpepperfan,
    Did your friend get those results with herbs alone? If so, do you know what she used or what Protocol she was on?

    Also, is she over age 25 and how long was she sick before getting a correct diagnosis? Those two things have been proven to make a huge difference in prognosis.

    Most LLMD's insist you must have ABX first, usually IV first, and continuous ABX for at least 18 months, and then use herbs to "mop up" or as an adjunct along with continuing oral ABX.

    Due to being allergic to all ABX that kill Lyme, I am screwed, and can only take herbals. My immune system is very dysregulated from the Lyme. I had skin tests done to be sure what I thought was allergy was not just herxing. Unfortunately for me, it was true allergy to all existing classes of ABX except fluroquinolones. If I ever get one of those superbugs, I am a goner.

    I have not had anywhere near as much improvement as your friend, but then again, I could not take Quina due to a dangerous respiratory depression from it, so I may have active babesia, despite testing negative for it, since they only test for 2 of the 13 known strains. Also, I could not get up to the normal Samento dosage.

    BTW, I am always skeptical, and wondered if maybe the so-called herxing from Samento was really just the side-effects of a potentially toxic herb, so I used my healthy DH as a guinea pig and gave him Samento too. He was easily able to go up to the full treatment dose in only 3 days! He took it for a week and had no symptoms at all. I herxed on just one drop per day in the beginning.

    I am very pleased to hear of your friend's success and I wish you the same.

    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 12/26/2007]
  6. Bunchy

    Bunchy New Member

    I am very confused after doing more research.

    I cannot afford the full Cowden or Buhner protocol and I seem to have read all over the place that some of these herbs can have very dangerous side effects.

    In the UK you have to pay for a private doctor if you want anything looked at properly, especially complex illnesses like mine - and even then, most of those doctors only treat in their own way eg one might treat with vitamins, one might treat with herbs and there doesn't seem to be a doctor who will try to unravel the WHOLE picture even if I could actually afford one.

    I did Samento and Noni a few years ago and the Samento made me feel wired with insomnia and constipated even at three drops a day. I noticed no difference from the full dose of Noni.

    I have been at 15-20 drops of Banderol and Burbur for two weeks and I'm sorry to say I haven't noticed ANY difference in ANY way.


    So what do I do now?....

    Please continue to throw in ideas if you can.

    Love (a rather desperate) Bunchy x
  7. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Dear Bunchy,
    Besides all it's other properties, Samento is a mood elevator and energizer. I was never able to take more than 2 drops in the afternoon, and none at night. I now take it only in the morning.

    Even after years of taking it, if I take even one drop after 2 PM, it will keep me up all night. Reacting to Samento with insomnia or other enhanced neuro symptoms is considered to be proof that you have Lyme in your brain, and is a neuro herx, so you are in stage III.

    Try taking it just in the morning.....it's better than nothing, and might help give you a boost if you drag around in the mornings like I do.

    I've been taking Samento so long that I did the original Cowden Protocol, which was much simpler and cheaper. It was basically just Samento and Burbur. Lymies need Magnesium too, but that is dirt cheap.

    I found Burbur to be useless and have used just Samento ever since, using lemon juice in plenty of water, and a whole foods vitamin powder with lots of greens, including chlorella and proteolytic enzymes ( Greens First) to help detox.

    Since I can't take the full dose of Samento, this is not expensive at all. I don't know how many drops you will need to herx on it, but one drop less than what makes you herx is your individual correct dosage. That may not be as expensive as the 20 drops per day they recommend now.

    My personal opinion is that Noni is a scam. Just my two cents.

    I have used Cumanda too, and some feel that Cumanda or Banderol can be used instead of Samento, or you could alternate the 3 to keep the bugs off balance and prevent resistance. However, I have not had resistance even after years on Samento.

    I would not buy more of any product that did not make you herx at all at any dosage. It is obviously not what you need.

    Samento suppossedly does not cause constipation, so I'd bet it was something else you took, or something you were eating, or not enough fiber and water in the diet. The only documented side-effect of Samento that is not due to herxing is lowered blood pressure.

    If there is a chance you have Babs, use the Quina first until the Babs symptoms are gone and have stayed gone for a couple of months.

    In otherwords, I think you could use just one product at a time if you are pressed for cash, instead of all of them at once. I know of some people who got well just on Samento (after ABX). In fact, I am pretty sure that Cowden's original study was done with just Samento, and he got good results anyway.

    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 01/06/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 01/06/2008]
  8. wld285

    wld285 New Member

    Hi all,

    Have been reading "Healing Lyme". It has been a slow process since I want to comprehend it all, and reading hasn't been easy for me lately. BTW, I think it is a fantastic book!

    I already take cat's claw (although not enough). I had to order some supplements, so I ordered the first on his list (andrographics), and will proceed slowly. Or should my body allow, go a little faster. So far, I have never done alot of herxing on anything. (Doxy included).

    I will be calling my doc for a phone consult this week. When my PCP would only give me 6 Diflucan, I noticed after the 3rd day I felt better (not relating it to the Diflucan until I ran out and went back to feeling lousy). Then yesterday I read in Buhner's book that some people had a substantial improvement when on Diflucan!

    So, has anyone done the full Buhner protocol and had any improvement? Cowden I am not familiar with at all.

    Linda
    [This Message was Edited on 01/07/2008]
  9. highcotton

    highcotton New Member

    anybody know which works better?

    Buhner recommends the capsules and tabs over the liquids.

    I've just started the japanese knotweed Buhner recomeends to help with headaches caused by inflammation of the meninges, and the arseminin for headaches caused by possible Bart.

    Buhner says to take the arseminin for 30-40 days, so I'm only taking these 2 sups first, the knowtweed and the arseminin; then I will add the core supps after going after going after the Bart with the arseminin.

    I'v only been doing it 2 days, but i do notice a teeny tad more energy and mental clarity.

    Placebo effect? It's possible, but I generally expect the worst, not the best from drugs, so I doubt it.