1. mindblower

    mindblower New Member

    "Im going to assume she is legit..."

    This was not the issue. What she said and didn't say in this thread about this CBT therapy was and is suspicious with the wanting to run away from this group without talking to us a bit about what happened making it seem more so.

    But maybe she doesn't know better, not everyone knows of the history of CBT treatment promoters regarding CFIDS and how many now try to mask the fact that this is what they're doing. My hunch is she was coached by them to quickly detach from individuals and groups who talk about physical cause being relevant to this illness, which further indicates their classic CBT view.

    Gupta I suggest be careful(his commentary), if he comes to the U.S. held International Conference for us this coming week. His masked CBT therapy(MCBT) I sense won't fly well here given its seeming clear failure with online U.S. customers this past year.


    MB



    [This Message was Edited on 03/10/2009]
  2. gapsych

    gapsych New Member


    The thing with Mickel Therapy and the Gupta practice is that they are so expense which is suspicious. A lot of us are on disability.

    There are lots of books, relaxation tapes, meditation classes available that are a lot less expensive.

    I wonder if some doctors who turn to this process as it is less stressful/costly than a medical practice and still make a lot of money.

    A book my psychiatrist recommended is "The Resilience Factor". It does read like a lot of other books recommended but enough of a difference to make it worth the time to read it.

    The book also has charts you can fill out. However, my psychiatrist said he would like to see a companion book for exercises to reinforce what you learn from the book. I think, but am not 100% sure that there was talk of an this type of book being published.

    The brain can regenerate in some areas on it's own, not by your thinking process. I


    I wonder if this therapy would be suggested for someone who is paralyzed, in a wheel chair or has cancer. However, with this illness being invisible and not taken seriously, we sometimes go for a quick fix. We are only human.

    If these practitioners are serious about helping, they should take a look at how much they are charging. I am sure they do not have the overhead costs that most medical practices have. Sounds greedy to me.



    gap
    [This Message was Edited on 03/10/2009]
  3. Andrew111

    Andrew111 Member

    Hi glitterpony,

    I just refreshed my memory by reading the Mickel thread we were both in some months ago. And I probably never mentioned what happened with me. I had to quit Mickel Therapy shortly after starting it because I was dxed with two different cancers, and didn't have the mental energy to work on CFS. But now I'm able to put in some energy.

    Anyway, I'm very happy that you are cured! And I'm impressed by your tenacity in doing it for a year. Good going!

    BTW, you might want to post some details. Like who you worked with, what it is like for you now. This is the type of thing you and me wanted to hear about when we first looked into this.

    Andrew
  4. (nyuck,nyuck,nyuck!)


    "oooooooo what 'fancy-schmancy' words they used..." for IN MY OPINION amounts to a whole lot of..... pppppbbbbbbbbttttttttt!

    hmm... guess the author of that particular article must be like MEEEE......... If i just ramble on LONG enough, using my biggest, bestest words... it will twist people's (sick people's) brain's in so many loopty-loo's... eventually, SOMEONE's gonna say,

    "hey.... that sorta made sense to me.... (I think?)..."


    My opinion, and MY opinion alone. I respect everyone elses, please respect *mine*...

    to 'glitterpony' well.... to err on the side of caution, (don't wanna be 'called out' or... just nvmd.)

    For the sake of staying on the 'good side' with the man upstairs.... AND people in general..... Glitterpony, I HOPE it's ALL true, you're well, it's permanent, etc....

    And, MB, I know you have broad shoulders, and am glad that you do.... I too believe someone owes an apology, but, I am NOT wearing a black & white striped shirt, with a whistle around my neck- retired those permanently years & years ago.

    However, wouldn't hurt for people to 'check themselves' (me too???) before posting.... and in some circumstances, possibly read the TOS- I THINK... 'singling out' , and 'attack' are against that...

    I don't want to hear anything about "was not an attack" etc. I view that it was, MB viewed that it indeed was, but, attack or not- it certainly was a PRESUMPTIOUS statement, and, I believe, antagonistic.

    That in itself, was more negative, than just MB stating MB's!!! own opinion. Noone should pre-emptively, presumptively, etc make MB's opinion FOR MB... or in a basic sense,,,,, say "here MB MB MB,,,,,, come on.... where ARE YOUUUUU dark cloud..."

    Not necessary.

    I close in saying, agree with a lot of the posters on here, and, as I said- JUST to be a good person, and on the 'safe' side... I do indeed, as always, wish this 'cured' person, the very best in life.

    I do advise though, using CURED, within less than ONE YEAR, from my understanding, of completing ANY treatment, very, VERY carefully- they do not use that for CANCER patients, until they have been in REMISSION for a certain length of time.

    A post of 'cured' in all caps, also, has raised flags, TONS of times before on this board, also, and, people are just questioning things, some doubting, yes...... they have their reasons. They are NOT being negative, they are being *cautious,* and sensible, IMO, due to PAST experiences on this board, and yes, those posters seldom ever post again- or elaborate any further, leaving tons of posts, congratulating their recovery, and BEGGING, for ANY more information, protocol, etc... and usually do not get it..

    so, pplllllllbbbbbttttttt! (smile, because *I AM*, and that is how that is to be taken)

    And have the best day/night you can. That's an order.

    buh-bye.

    Laura
  5. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Glitterpony,

    Congratulations on your achievements. And thank you for coming back to let us know how you're doing. I'm sure you realized you would be met with a certain amount of skepticism and perhaps even some rudeness. So I commend you on your courage as well!

    For those who have an interest in working to try to influence brain function, as I do, I would like to mention that EFT is another method that you might want to consider. It is a modality that can be started without any expense, which I'm sure is a big factor for many of us on this board.

    I am just starting to do some rudimentary EFT exercises to address various things I may have going on, such as headache, nausea, etc., and have had a certain amount of success with it so far. I recently came across an article (link pasted below) which describes how one EFT therapist tries to make changes to routine reactions that may be taking place in our brain.

    Personally, I think disrupted brain function is much more often a result of the traumatic experiences that initiate ME/CFS or FM, and not the cause. In cases where the original cause is still present, such as an active infection of some sort, or perhaps a significant structural problem, these types of therapies will likely only have limited value.

    When you combine unresolved physical conditions with various genetic weaknesses, you have a situation that I would describe as an accurate description of ME/CFS or FM. Brain function and/or emotional responses can be a contributing factor in these cases, and using various techniques to mitigate them could be helpful. But when certain therapists try to ascribe all of our symptoms to improper thinking, I feel it is a disservice to those of us with these health conditions. And I might add, disrespectful.

    Glitterpony, please don't take any of my opinions as not believing or appreciating your story. You sound like you're still young and had not had your chronic illness for very long (compared to many of us here). In your case, and in others, I do believe that these kind of therapies can indeed reverse a chronic health condition. There's too many success stories like yours out there. But for those who don't have this kind of success, I believe other physical factors have to be considered and addressed as well.

    Thanks for posting! :)

    Best, Wayne

    Here's the link to the article on using EFT to influence brain function:

    http://www.emofree.com/Articles2/brain-loa-eft.htm[This Message was Edited on 03/10/2009]
  6. rockgor

    rockgor Active Member

    I searched for Mickel therapy. The first site that came up was was the post by Glitterpony.

    (Once I was doing a search for something else and the first site that came up was my post here.)

    Anyway, this topic comes up every now and then. Generally seems to get people riled up.
    There is a video on Youtube, but I couldn't get it to play.

    My conclusion is that there are lots of treatments, controversial or otherwise. If one is lucky,
    one finds the right one. I've been sick for 29 years; still looking.


    Rock
  7. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    although i am skeptical of any non-medicine treatments, there are on-going studies investigating stress and how it affects viral replication, such as dr. glaser's work.
  8. rickj44

    rickj44 Member

    I once went to a Natural pathic Doctor and he touched the bottom of my feet with this strange instrument.. and told me i had high levels of mercury in my body from the fillings in my teeth., He sold me some stuff and said i would feel better in two weeks. I gave him 250.00 and never went back.

    A time later i had hair sample sent to check for high levels of mercury and they came back good.

    This guy is talking about Quote... This chronic over secretion of cortisol has clearly been shown to wreak havoc on the immune system, brain cells and other body systems.

    Well go and have a simple blood test.. if you Cortisol levels are not right , being Hypnotized will not change anything.

    A person that used all these big words and doesn't come right out and say what exactly he does. tell's you something.

    He will profit big time from desperate people. I will never believe my mind will cure me.. If that's the case then this illness is all in my head. I have decided in my head, to give up my job, and income, and just lay around the rest of my life. ya right...

    So silly...this is..
    Rick
  9. Andrew111

    Andrew111 Member

    >My conclusion is that there are lots of treatments, controversial or otherwise. If one is lucky,
    one finds the right one.

    Yes, this is what I've observed. It's like a lottery. And every treatment has cured at least one person. Sometimes a bunch of people. But never all people. And since I'm too sick to travel, go to movies, etc., why not risk whatever I can afford on different treatments.
  10. mindblower

    mindblower New Member

    "...post of 'cured' in all caps, also, has raised flags, TONS of times before on this board, also, and, people are just questioning things, some doubting, yes...... they have their reasons. They are NOT being negative, they are being *cautious,* and sensible..."

    Thanks, Laura. That black & white stripped shirt on you looks just fine! ;) MB
  11. lol.

    Thanks, MB.

    I tell ya, sometimes, when I'm "on"... I'm truly 'on'... it's just those moments are so few & far between, lol...

    Glad you agree with me, for agreeing with you(LOL j/k).....

    I'm sure people have now noticed, that, just as the negative/naysayers (or ones who were at least perceived/presumed as such) pretty much *figured* would be the case...

    It looks like this (glitter)PONY, has left the barn for good. Never to be heard from again...(possibly.)

    **I still wish anyone claiming to be cured, well. **

    And let it also be said, that:
    I also wish something else, on anyone who has ulterior motives, on a board full of truly ill people. ;-)

    I myself, did NOT care for the sentence of having too much to do 'then to hang around these boards' (almost like an "eww, sick people") statement above.

    Nice.

    I'd say the same thing, though, were I truly just cured tomorrow- however, it would ONLY be AFTER a very, VERY detailed diary thread, of my entire journey-

    as well as equally long **THANK YOU post** to all on this board, and probably a promise to stop in once in a while.

    (I DID see THE thank you too yellowbird, I think, at least...) Guess the rest of us can just go pound sand. LOL.

    No skin off my nose, there'll be others like this as well,

    I'm moreso sorry for any/all who asked so many questions, thirsty for more information, I think it was a slap in the face for you to not get them. Not even an acknowledgement of your time to post a congrats, and well wishes.

    Maybe Glitterpony will return with all the information you all asked for, someday.

    Anywho. I'm off to ref a hockey game now (LOL...)

    Toodles.

  12. luckyman

    luckyman New Member

    this video please take the time to watch at least half of it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoSFJ5Wxsuw

    Just copy and paste the address and play the video. The video will speak for itself. If you watch at least half of the video, I'm sure you'll see the light.

    Second, we need to be very careful when looking at reviews of products and services. Many unscrupulous vendors write their own testimonials, or pay to have others to do the writing, often using multiple screen names. Many camera and electronics dealers use these tactics, especially in New Jersey and New York city. Some businesses operate under a dozen or more websites, and part of the con is all the glowing reviews especially on shopping sevices such as next tag, price grabber...
    They make it a point to show top ratings by writing 100's of reviews under different names. I checked out a number of 5 star venders that had a terrible history with the BBB. Many play a change of address game. WE THAT HAVE ME, CFIDS, FIBRO ARE ALSO A TARGET. BUYER BEWARE!

    For "Cured", I hope you are, and that you doen't relapse. Nothing against you or any others who have hope. Just don't hold onto your hope and wallet at the same time. It's so sad that we are so sick, but have to contend with the vultures circling around us, and among us.
  13. kjfms

    kjfms Member


    I am glad you are feeling great and wish you the best.


    Keep the positive outlook,

    kjfms :)
  14. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    Nothing about mine with Mickel was about anger and suppressed anger. Most Everything was you're bored and lonely, that's why your body creates symptoms.

    I just didn't agree with everything, so one session and I think I'm done.

  15. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    ...is real and has been documented in clinical studies for decades.

    There's a Dr. John Sarno M.D. who found that many if not most of his back pain patients had deeply suppressed rage and anger issues. His theory is very controversial and kind of one-dimensional, but at the same time he has thousands of patients (even some with herniated or slipped discs) who got better through his protocol.

    The protocols mentioned here are just new versions or variations.

    I too would have doubted both of them, except for the fact that a good friend of mine, sick for 13 years -- someone that I know personally -- has recovered to 80% functionality and stayed there for over 1 year and a half now, using the Gupta DVD's. Before she started, she could only sit up for about 10 minutes at a time.

    I don't agree with everything Gupta says, but the thing I got out of his program is that I found myself subconciously holding my breath, and also expecting negative things to happen all the time, so that when i forced myself to stop, take a deep breath or two or three or ten(!), then I could actually do more throughout the day than I had been able to or thought I could do.

    In other words, I had kind of 'learned' to expect the worst, no matter what I had to do on a particular day, and when I challenged that expectation, and tried some of the retraining and relaxation methods, they actually helped.

    They would probably help a lot more if I did them every single day...?!

    I don't know much about the Mickel therapy, except that it is definitely more expensive. Gupta is pricey too ($200) but it does come w/a money back guarantee, you can use it over and over and don't have to pay for more sessions, and perhaps someone could find the DVD's on ebay???

    just my two cents.

    Dan
  16. gapsych

    gapsych New Member


    I absolutely believe that there is a mind body connection. If we are more relaxed we may not be in as much pain, we may have a better outlook. However, I think it can work the other way. When we are in pain, it is harder to relax, focus on good thoughts.

    I had a long talk with my BIL several years ago. He is an oncologist of 30 years. His observation is that yes there is a mind body connection but it can't cure you. He said he sees many patients whose attitude is directly related to how they are feeling.

    He says that the one thing he hates is when people talk about a cancer personality. I have a friend with ulcerated colitis. She almost died. At that time, there was an "ulcerated colitis" personality. Now the medical community knows differently.

    I guess I am saying that it is like the chicken and the egg. When we see people who are more upbeat when ill, it may be the stage or severity of the disease. Of course people have different outlooks and different personalities but this may only be a minor role in how we feel.

    However, once again, is the fact that these people are shysters, preying on people who are sick and desperate. You can get the same effect by taking a meditation class, learning relaxation exercisers and also learning how to cope with a disability.

    I just want to say to there "doctors", shame on you.

    We have to be informed consumers.

    My take on things.

    gap

    ETA Glitterpony please realize that I think it is great that you are feeling so much better. I would be interested in knowing more about your recovery.[This Message was Edited on 03/13/2009]
  17. TeaBisqit

    TeaBisqit Member

    I'm sure not everyone will agree with me. But I just can't keep silent while this thread continues to flow.

    I've been on the net half my life and I've seen alot of things. This thread is what's called a grenade post. Throw it in and run away and laugh from afar (or not so far) at the damage and smoke you've caused. IMO, this was cruel and it's not real. Flame me if you like with posts on how pollyanna positive you and the OP are. If you are that gullable, more power to you. We all want to believe in something. However, in all my eighteen years of this disease, I have NEVER once come across anyone who legitimately was sick with this that was cured.

    I am beyond suspicious of this OP. And if this one ever dared to throw a grenade into one of my forums, I would ban. That is my personal opinion and coming from someone who has been an Admin on various forums for years.

    That being said, if this person had a mental illness or some form of depression that was causing her fatigue, and she was helped by this therapy, that's all good and well, but she doesn't belong on a CFS/ME/FM board. She belongs on a depression forum where she can tout the wonders of this therapy all she likes.

    Perhaps we need a separate forum for these "cured" posts so that those who want to read them can and those of us who find them......questionable at best don't have to stare at them and watch them continue to balloon and bang off the posts we do want to read.

    I'm sorry, but I had to say something. All of this is my personal opinion. And I am highly sensitive and suspicious of anyone touting a mental health therapy as a cure when I suffer from horrific physical pain and stiffness and a million other symptoms that cannot be thought away by happy, happy, joy, joy thoughts.
  18. SpiroSpero

    SpiroSpero New Member

    I completely agree. I neither think that the thread starter is healthy nor do I think that Mickel Therapy has more than a placebo effect. I saw a lot of posts about it and in my eyes there is one decisive factor that predicts if it works or not and that is whether people believe in it or not.
  19. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    While I believe that the mind is capable of all manner of things where the body is concerned there are too many red flags around this particular poster.

    MT came up very early in their 26 posts. Yes, skepticism was voiced early but how many commercials have you seen on Telly where the actor says: I was skeptical just like you!

    Glitterpony suggested that posts from others who had used MT be resurrected and counted. Gitterpony also said it was a great pity that they could not stay around to report.

    Since Glitterpony has not returned and, as was already noted, callously dismissed all here, I can only assume that this poster was a MT salesperson at work. There was such an air of "I'm done! Where's my cheque?" about that CURED post as far as I could see. I could be wrong in this case, of course.

    It is such an effective form of marketing requiring such little effort that I simply cannot imagine that it would not be used. It's happened before and it will happen again.

    Peace out,
    Rafiki
  20. yellowbird

    yellowbird New Member

    Hello!

    I only check in here very rarely but decided to today for some reason. I'm very thrilled to see MT worked for you! I'm still doing well, too, working out 2 times a week really intensely, etc. Just when I think I've arrived at 'normal' I get a tiny bit more energy; I would say I have more energy than a lot of 'normals'...

    For those who doubt.... the expression is "if something seems to be too good to be true then it PROBABLY is", not "it DEFINITELY is". Mickel therapy may seem unlikely (from a certain perspective) but it works. Wonderful things can be true. Body-mind unity is a reality, not just a 'belief'!

    The search function in this new format seems to work a bit weird on my computer, but I will check back here eventually, glitterpony, so if you find yourself back here at some point and feel like leaving a note for me, I'll probably eventually get it.

    Again, best best wishes,
    yellowbird