Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by woofmom, Feb 1, 2008.
About them claiming it is not a cover-up and that vaccine is not the problem. Huh!!! Would they admit it and open up to lawsuits?
There was a movie on about this 2 nights ago on television as well, it was a really good movie.
Here's some highlights that I can't get out of my head:
"Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children."
(they sure didn't bother to say that on the CNN little blurb about vaccines and autism, but that should be a real attention-getter, shouldn't it?)
"This will be a resource to our very busy plaintiff attorneys in this country." Dr. Bob Chen, head of vaccine safety for the CDC, expressed relief that "given the sensitivity of the information, we have been able to keep it out of the hands of, let's say, less responsible hands." Dr. John Clements, vaccines advisor at the World Health Organization, declared that "perhaps this study should not have been done at all." He added that "the research results have to be handled," warning that the study "will be taken by others and will be used in other ways beyond the control of this group."
(definitely a field day for lawyers everywhere)
On five separate occasions, Frist has tried to seal all of the government's vaccine-related documents -- including the Simpsonwood transcripts -- and shield Eli Lilly, the developer of thimerosal, from subpoenas. In 2002, the day after Frist quietly slipped a rider known as the "Eli Lilly Protection Act" into a homeland security bill, the company contributed $10,000 to his campaign and bought 5,000 copies of his book on bioterrorism. The measure was repealed by Congress in 2003 -- but earlier this year, Frist slipped another provision into an anti-terrorism bill that would deny compensation to children suffering from vaccine-related brain disorders. "The lawsuits are of such magnitude that they could put vaccine producers out of business and limit our capacity to deal with a biological attack by terrorists," says Dean Rosen, health policy adviser to Frist.
(I like this last part, the vaccine makers are now trying to scare us out of suing them so they can protect us from biological attack by terrorists. What about the biological attack by the vaccine companies?)
"You couldn't even construct a study that shows thimerosal is safe," says Haley, who heads the chemistry department at the University of Kentucky. "It's just too darn toxic. If you inject thimerosal into an animal, its brain will sicken. If you apply it to living tissue, the cells die. If you put it in a petri dish, the culture dies. Knowing these things, it would be shocking if one could inject it into an infant without causing damage."
(Does seem kind of strage we even need a study to determine if injecting mercury into the bloodstream of an infant is safe or not. Just because you're "likely to survive" doesn't mean it should be used)
In 1930, the company tested thimerosal by administering it to twenty-two patients with terminal meningitis, all of whom died within weeks of being injected -- a fact Lilly didn't bother to report in its study declaring thimerosal safe. In 1935, researchers at another vaccine manufacturer, Pittman-Moore, warned Lilly that its claims about thimerosal's safety "did not check with ours." Half the dogs Pittman injected with thimerosal-based vaccines became sick, leading researchers there to declare the preservative "unsatisfactory as a serum intended for use on dogs."
(dogs don't have lawyers and don't deserve to suffer for profit. drug testing and the exclusion of testing of natural substances is also responsible for countless animals' suffering that does not have to happen, it's only happening for profit, NOT to help people)
At two months, when the infant brain is still at a critical stage of development, infants routinely received three inoculations that contained a total of 62.5 micrograms of ethylmercury -- a level 99 times greater than the EPA's limit for daily exposure to methylmercury, a related neurotoxin. Although the vaccine industry insists that ethylmercury poses little danger because it breaks down rapidly and is removed by the body, several studies -- including one published in April by the National Institutes of Health -- suggest that ethylmercury is actually more toxic to developing brains and stays in the brain longer than methylmercury.
(I elaborated on this in the vaccine post, infants don't even eat fish, anyway, so how can an infant's body be prepared for this type of assault?)
As the federal government worked to prevent scientists from studying vaccines, others have stepped in to study the link to autism. In April, reporter Dan Olmsted of UPI undertook one of the more interesting studies himself. Searching for children who had not been exposed to mercury in vaccines -- the kind of population that scientists typically use as a "control" in experiments -- Olmsted scoured the Amish of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, who refuse to immunize their infants. Given the national rate of autism, Olmsted calculated that there should be 130 autistics among the Amish. He found only four. One had been exposed to high levels of mercury from a power plant. The other three -- including one child adopted from outside the Amish community -- had received their vaccines.
(I predict a rise in Amish, or at least people claiming to be Amish, in those states where the vaccines are mandatory)
The fact that Iowa's 700 percent increase in autism began in the 1990s, right after more and more vaccines were added to the children's vaccine schedules, is solid evidence alone." Last year, Iowa became the first state to ban mercury in vaccines, followed by California. Similar bans are now under consideration in thirty-two other states.
(maybe whoever is in charge in Iowa should consider running for president)
I did not look at the link provided cause for me the more info I read about this the more it infuriates me...
My expereinces with vaccines have been the following:
Husband of 22 years, perfectly healthy when entered the military, received multiple vaccines, days later first seizure, put back on duty...Has suffered with epilepsy since and noone admits to nothing...We have done our own research and concluded the vax triggered it and also caused permanent damage to a part of his brain...LIFE TORN APART!
My furry kids...Given their yearly vax in May 2000...NIGHTMARE!!! Dylan had severe allergies each time he was given shots and it was blamed on auto-immune, given prednisone and other toxins to help his 'allergies'...Suffering!!!
Dayne has a vaccine related tumor at the site since and is now the size of a soccerball...Vet denied but we know better...
And my baby boy MOOSE, who is in my profile... Days after his shot, on his 2nd birthday his seizures began...he was a severe epileptic and medicated for 5 years til he succumbed to the effects of too many, lost his site, his memory, his ability to control emotions...we set him free on 4/21/05, the worst day of our lives...
So for anyone who questions the dangers of vaccines versus the good they do, don't look to me for support of the vax industry...I think they are poison and the makers should be tested, and retested and just to be sure, tested again...
Medicine should be helpful, always, never harmful to anyone...
Since 2000, no more vaccines for my boys nor do I trust veterinarians anymore...I do have a facility I go to now and have declined all meds, vax and most advice they give and esp, the Science Diet foods they recommend, that's another horror story of which I am all too familiar...
FYI...when a practitioner of any kind says the following "THE BENEFITS OUTWEIGH THE RISKS" when referring to a med or treatment...Run to the nearest exit...You stand a better chance of surviving to see the light of day...
I am angry and bitter for all the suffering put upon us by the POWERS THAT BE and my expereinces have proven that these toxins do have a place...In the bodies of those that offer them
For the past 7 years, we have told our vet what we would like along with what we 'know'...No ego or power struggle anymore, just what is best for my boys, not their 'bottom line'...This is a sore subject for me as you can imagine...My husband has battled the military for 22 years and still they hide info from us and spew their 'opinions'and advise more drugs for his health problems...I would like to tie all them up and dump them in the river...
The only person that cares about YOU is YOU...Take Care Of You and Yours and stay away from these 'practicing' physicians...Since my near death in 2006 by an overzealous doc and his staff, I only seek alternative methods to HEAL THYSELF...No drugs, no fad diets and definetely stay far away from anyone with an MD at the end of their name...Scary people...Hope I never feel I need them again...
Look for the answers inside yourself, they are there, I promise you that...
Since I am here and don't usually write anymore due to the damage done to me by the drug Levaquin, I haven't had the chance to thank someone...Barrowinnovations IS on the path to good health..I learned much from her guidance this past year and I will never forget the few posts that opened my mind about the 'liver connection'...It helped me immensely...
Keep up the research woofmom and keep posting it...This info can be the answer for some or many...You are helping others as you are looking for answers for your own issues...It's an incredible ride...
Check out my profile to see my beautiful boy Moose...He lives on in all of us, teaching others lessons about life and love...He is able to 'run and play' all day, every day and he is with me, by my side always...Love You Woobie...
Peaceful days ahead~ MamaDove
Sorry for the novel, but like I said, this subject hits me hard...Enjoy the day everyone...
Believing scientific and government sources. And if you have any crayons that are older than a few years, you better get rid of them (asbestos).
who the professor is regarding vets and vaccines. he has an excellent understanding of gws and me.
the shift is usually to th2. drs gow and kerr confirmed the changed ratios in cd4 and cd8; this means the t lymphocyte helper cell numbers increase and the suppressor cell numbers go down.
so what we end up with is a skewed immune system.
You're very welcome. And here's another hug.
Oh wow thanks for the article Woofmom!
The CDC and FDA are quite the marriage aren't they? They've ignored CFS for most of its existance, approved only one drug for FM; the CDC recently had millions of dollars of equipment stolen; and they're being investigated for malfeasance in approving FEMA's toxic trailers. The vaccine-scandal somehow doesn't surprise me.
As for reliable sources, anyone can look up the "springwood transcripts vaccines", the first hit has a bunch of other suspicious documents, and pulls out some of the quotes from the meeting.
The author is an aspiring politician, but after an article like that he probably won't be elected: The pharmaceutical industry is notorious for supporting politicians, and pumping money & protection out of congress.
That stuff about MCS being a laughing matter didn't really bother me. I already knew that doctors could lose their liscense if they diagnosed it.As for he/she: Plants don't only grow in yards. Be very, very careful in whom you place your trust.
[This Message was Edited on 02/02/2008]
Have you never heard of The Tomato Effect?
[This Message was Edited on 02/02/2008]
Does that have anything to do with that ancient movie "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" where the people had to play that song "Puberty Love" to thwart them? Remember that one?
I've never heard of it, though I can certainly relate. Sorry about the movie crack, I didn't know what you were talking about. There really was a movie called "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes". It's probably unbearable to watch now, but when I was 12 or whatever I was, it was pretty funny.
Tomato Effect - The tomato effect in medicine occurs when a highly efficacious therapy for a certain disease is ignored or rejected because it does not "make sense" in the light of accepted theories of disease mechanism and drug action. Doctors at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine introduced the tomato effect in JAMA. May 11, 1984. Its name is derived from the history of the tomato in North America. By 1560, the tomato was becoming a staple of the continental European diet. However, it was shunned in America until the 1800's. Why? Because we knew it was poisonous. Everyone knew tomatoes belong to the nightshade family. The leaves and fruit of several plants in this family can cause death if ingeted. The fact that Europeans were eating tomatoes without harm was not relevant. It simply did not make sense to eat poisonous food.
Peer Review - The peer review process probably has done more to discourage innovative research than any other factor that I have observed. The March 9, 1990 issue of JAMA was devoted entirely to the topic of peer review. One article in particular, by Horrobin (himself editor of a peer reviewed medical journal) , cited 18 examples of peer review attempting to suppress medical innovation. The article observed: " ... some of the most distinguished of scientists may display sophisticated behavior that can only be described as pathological. Editors must be conscious that, despite public protestations to the contrary, many scientist reviewers are against innovation unless it is their innovation. Innovation from others may be a threat because it diminishes the importance of the scientist's own work.
"Peer review in the grant giving process is so restrictive that most innovative scientists know they would never receive funding if they actually said what they were going to do. Scientists therefore have to tell lies in their grant applications. Such views have explicitly been stated by at least two Nobel Laureates."
The (JAMA) article contends that medicine has lost sight of the basic purpose of peer review, asserting, "the true aim of peer review in biomedical science must be to improve the quality of patient care."
Cumbersome Bureaucracy - It has been estimated that the FDA approval process takes an average of 12 years and costs $231 million. This presents unique difficulties for independent researchers and for therapies that do not lend themselves to patentability.
It is my observation that there is a role for the insurance industry in advocating evaluation of innovative medical therapies. Actuaries should be almost immune to the tomato effect. We are focused almost exclusively on statistical results as opposed to theory. Since the insurance industry pays most of the bills, it should have great economic motivation to see safe., effective and inexpensive therapies extensively evaluated and widely disseminated. Consideration of an industry-wide fund for innovative research could deal with the problem of peer review. The insurance industry is a sleeping economic giant. When it awakens to the cost containment possibilities available through innovative therapies, we will see enormous changes in the practice of medicine."
I don't know about this last part, though. If people start using innovative therapies, I would think they aren't going to want to pay for general health insurance, only the "accidental death and dismemberment" kind. That's the only kind of insurance I would buy right now. But, on the other hand, general health insurance for non drug therapies might be much cheaper.
Thanh Nien News
Ministry bans vaccines after babies' deaths
February 1, 2008
By N. Son - Bui Ngoc Long
The Ministry of Health banned two hepatitis B vaccines
Friday due to post-injection deaths in Hanoi and Thua
Deputy Health Minister Cao Minh Quang signed a document
suspending the use of hepatitis B vaccines involved in the
deaths of two babies – one in Thua Thien-Hue last week and
one in Hanoi last January.
Truong Quoc Cuong, the director of the ministry's
pharmaceutical management department, said that samples
from a vaccine batch given to Ho Phuong Vy – a two-month-old
baby who died after inoculation in Thue Thien-Hue last
week – had been sent to the Ho Chi Minh City-based Institute
of Drug Quality Control for testing.
Dr. Do Sy Hien, head of the National Extensive Inoculation
Program, said Vy had received shots for hepatitis B,
poliomyelitis and DPT (diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus).
All of them had been manufactured by the state-run National
Institute of Hygiene and Epidemiology and its subsidiary,
Vabiotech Company, he added.
Vy was vaccinated at the Thuong Nhat Commune medical center
Three hours later, his family found him cold and purple
and rushed him back to the medical center.
He was later transferred to a higher-level clinic where
The ministry was looking into the cause of Vy's death, Hien
Nguyen Anh Tuan, head of the Thuong Nhat medical center,
said 35 other local babies had received the same vaccine.
Vy's was the second fatality possibly caused by a vaccination
The cause of the Hanoi baby's death remains unknown.
The ministry's Vietnam Pharmaceutical Management Bureau
will ask the manufacturers of vaccines involved in the Hanoi
baby's death – South Korea's LG Co. and Vietnam's Vaccine
and Biological Products Company No. 1 – to inspect their
hepatitis B vaccine and DPT vaccine.
The ministry also ordered that a scientific council be
established to define the causes both babies' deaths.
The health ministry last year banned two brands of
hepatitis B vaccines after six babies died in April.
But it lifted the ban in October after investigations
proved they were safe and that the babies had died from
Reported by N. Son - Bui Ngoc Long
for that additional info.
fixing our skewed immune system is not as straightforward as is often implied. in me and cfs stimulating the immune system can make matters considerably worse.
as posted on a new topic -
When researcher A says yes and researcher B says no, confusion abounds. For those
who are counting on scientific data, this can be very frustrating. In a world
where science is biased, facts are manipulated, doctors are mislead, industry
acts to misinform, and few can be trusted, how do we find the truth?
When it comes to controversial illnesses, such as multiple chemical sensitivity
(MCS), fibromyalgia (FM), and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), patients, doctors,
and researchers must employ critical thinking skills to sort through the bunk and
get to the facts and the real truth.
This 'mission for truth' can be a long and frustrating journey in which those
with industry ties may try to mislead others, in many cases for their own
personal interests. One must be wary of financial ties, misrepresentations,
unclear information, and conflicts of interest.
Critical thinking involves making decisions on facts and sound criteria,
distinguishing between fact and opinion; asking questions; making detailed
observations; analyzing and assessing ones own thinking, and uncovering
assumptions to make assertions based on sound logic and solid evidence.
Attributes of a Critical Thinker
In Peak Performance, Ferret lists the attributes of a critical thinker as one who:
- Asks pertinent questions.
- Assesses statements and arguments.
- Admits a lack of understanding.
- Has a sense of curiosity.
- Desires to find new solutions.
- Clearly define a set of criteria for analyzing ideas.
- Willing to examine beliefs, assumptions, and opinions and weigh them against
- Listens carefully to others and is able to give constructive feedback.
- Suspends judgment until all facts have been gathered and considered (unbiased).
- Looks for evidence to support assumption and beliefs.
- Adjusts opinions when new facts are found.
- Looks for objective proof.
- Separates perceptions from logic.
- Examines problems closely.
- Rejects information
The process of critical thinking denies blind belief in what one reads or what
one is told. One must take such things with a grain of salt and do their own
research to form an educated opinion based on facts. Arguments for one side or
the other often make assumptions. These assumptions must be avoided in favor of
concrete facts and information.
There are many logical fallacies that critical thinkers must watch for. A logical
fallacy is an error in reasoning. For example, a teenager might argue it's okay
to stay out past midnight because 'everyone does it'. The fact that everyone else
stays out late is irrelevant. How does what everyone else does make it's okay?
Everyone else could be wrong for staying out late. The teen could have special
circumstances. Does the fact that everyone stays out late change the teens
ability to get up for school the next morning? No, it doesn't and this is not a
sound argument for staying out late.
Common Logical Fallacies
An ad hominem fallacy occurs when a person's character is attacked rather than
discussing the topic itself. This might occur in a debate over whether to open a
new school. Proponents against a new school might criticize their opponents
personally by making comments about their net worth, identity, or intentions
instead of addressing the real issue at hand the possible need for a new school.
A bandwagon fallacy occurs when it is argued that a majority of people believe in
something or chooses a particular course of action, so the argument/course of
action must be true. An example would be '90% of people eat at McDonald's once a
week, so it is good to eat at McDonald's once a week. All those people can't be
wrong.' In reality, there is no evidence on which to base this conclusion. The
questions we should be asking are vast. What is the nutritional value of the
food? How many calories does the food contain? Have any scientific studies shown
an benefit to eating at McDonald's? Who funded those studies?
A snob appeal fallacy occurs when the argument used is 'all those who are in the
know support it.' An example might be the argument 'Anyone who's been around for
awhile knows that fibromyalgia will never win a court case.' The implication is
that anyone who does not hold that belief is not in the 'in crowd' and therefore
is wrong and should not be trusted. However, this had no bearing on the truth of
the claim, which must be examined and researched closely.
An appeal to tradition fallacy occurs when one claims that something must be true
or best because that's the way it's always been done. In the case of a new
school, a fallacious claim might be, 'We've never needed another school, why
should we build one now?' What has been done in the past has no bearing on the
present need for a school.
A genetic fallacy occurs when ones claims that an idea, product, or person must
be untrustworthy because of its racial, geographic, or ethnic origin. For
example: 'That food is toxic. I was made in China.' Even though we know China has
been in the news for several toxic products, that has no bearing on the food we
are examining now. A critical thinker would need to have the food independently
tested before declaring it toxic.
A false cause fallacy establishes a cause/effect relationship that does not exist
and is the basis of superstition. For example, 'I stepped on a crack on the
sidewalk on my way home. When I got home I found my mother had broken her back
falling down the stairs. Because I stepped on the crack, my mother broke her
There are many more logical fallacies, however these are enough to get started
thinking about the need for critical thinking, questioning, and reevaluating our
belief systems. Logical fallacies give the perception of being truthful when they
do not provide sufficient evidence from which to make an informed conclusion.
Credibility of Evidence
Since most information comes to us second hand, how can we ensure the evidence we
are basing our decisions on is credible? There are five criteria of credibility:
- Reputation examines a sources history. A good reputation makes for a more
credible source, while a bad reputation makes for a less credible source.
Reputation is, of course, based on concrete and verifiable facts, not on ad
- Ability to See examines whether the source of information is in a position of
firsthand knowledge. No matter how reputable someone is, if they did not have
firsthand knowledge, their credibility is not strong. Secondhand knowledge
does not hold the same credibility.
- Vested Interest examines whether the source of information has anything
personally at stake. If a scientist is paid by a pharmaceutical company to
perform a study on a new drug, he likely has a vested interest (financial) in
the outcome of the study being supportive of the drug. In this case,
credibility is reduced.
- Expertise examines whether the source of information has the specialized
knowledge and background needed to interpret the material in question.
- Neutrality examines whether someone is predisposed to support a particular
opinion for reasons other than vested interest. A woman who has been raped would
not be likely to be a neutral witness in a rape trial.
The Value of Critical Thinking
It is highly likely that while reading this, you have discovered how information
can be loaded with trickery designed to lead others to believe something that is
not true. Perhaps you recalled being poisoned by something you were told was
safe, such as amalgam fillings, vaccinations, or chemical materials used in your
job. The dentist said amalgams were safe, but you developed mercury poisoning.
The doctor said vaccinations were safe, but your child had a seizure and
developed autism afterwards. Your boss said the chemicals on the job were safe or
they would not sell them, and you were chemically injured. Critical thinking
could have helped avoid these unfortunate mistakes.
Let's take the credibility of the doctor and his recommended vaccinations as an
example. Some questions to consider based on the credibility guidelines are:
- What is the doctor's reputation?
- Are there any board complaints against the doctor?
- Does the doctor follow-up with his directly with his patients in a physical
exam after vaccination?
- Does the doctor tell parents about adverse reactions and ask them to report
any such reactions?
- Does the doctor keep a list of adverse reactions and statistics for his patients?
- Does the doctor receive any kickbacks from the pharmaceutical company making
- Does the HMO the doctor works for encourage vaccination or pay a bonus for
exceeding a certain vaccination rate?
- What is the doctors specific training in immunology?
- Does the doctor have a degree in immunology?
- Does the doctor have the drug insert for you to review with both indications
- How does the doctor react when you ask these questions?
Exploring these questions can help to determine the credibility of the doctor's
opinion that your child should be vaccinated. Once the doctors credibility is
determined, additional research into the science of the vaccines and credibility
of the vaccine manufactures can be done to form your opinion based on available
evidence. Both sides of the vaccination controversy can and should be examined in
depth. Each source of information should be rated for credibility. Finally,
compile and review the information you've gathered to make an informed decision.
Throw out information that is not credible or uses logical fallacies.
Proper decisions can change lives!
bump for more scientific minds
Does anyone know where is the epidemiological study mentioned in the beginning of the Rolling Stones article? Is it published and available to read?
This is what I think: Both sides are missing a very important point. There may be a link between autism and vaccines, but it is not necessarily either thimerisol nor mercury.
It is incorrect for them to state that because no link between thimerisol and autism has been found, that there is no link between vaccines and autism. Thimerisol does not equal vaccine.
On the other hand, continuing to push the thimerisol link when there is actually evidence that it is not the culprit, destroys credibility on the other side.
There are other things inside vaccines. And hardly anyone is thinking about it or looking at it!
get autism or CFS/ME diseases?
I don't know what countries don't have mandatory vaccines but I'm sure there are many. Most people on these boards grew up in the U.S., UK, Switzerland. I wonder if people from third world countries have FM/CFS?
I just finished reading this book and I am in shock. You all should look it up and read about it if you don't know about it already.
Separate names with a comma.