Die off or bad reaction?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by ali-may, Oct 3, 2002.

  1. ali-may

    ali-may New Member

    Just wondering... How do we distinguish between a "die-off" effect of herbal/natural supplements and what is simply a bad reaction to that substance?

    I ask because I've been feeling sooo sick since I started taking kolorex/horopito extract. Apparently nausea and headache can be a die-off effect from this herb, and it can last for several days to a week.

    But I'm suspicious, because how come I get different "die-off" reactions to different things? When yeast dies and releases toxins into your bloodstream, then shouldn't it always release the same kind of toxins and make you have the same reaction???

    When I first started Pau d'Arco I had mild stomach pains. this was supposed to be because of initial die-off. The stomach pains went away and now each time I take Pau d'Arco I definitely feel better but WITHOUT any "die-off".

    Nausea from Garlic has been said to be die-off, but isn't garlic known for nausea in high doses anyway?

    And I just wonder if the kolorex/horopito is making me nauseous and headachey because it happens to have those properties? Is there really a die-off happening???

    I DO believe in the effectiveness of herbal treatments - I use herbs all the time! But I am feeling quite jaded today from feeling so AWFUL. Plus I think the anti-candida diet is making me GRUMPY! I need chocolate........

    Can anyone help me with some answers here?

    Thanks!

    Ali
  2. ali-may

    ali-may New Member

    Just wondering... How do we distinguish between a "die-off" effect of herbal/natural supplements and what is simply a bad reaction to that substance?

    I ask because I've been feeling sooo sick since I started taking kolorex/horopito extract. Apparently nausea and headache can be a die-off effect from this herb, and it can last for several days to a week.

    But I'm suspicious, because how come I get different "die-off" reactions to different things? When yeast dies and releases toxins into your bloodstream, then shouldn't it always release the same kind of toxins and make you have the same reaction???

    When I first started Pau d'Arco I had mild stomach pains. this was supposed to be because of initial die-off. The stomach pains went away and now each time I take Pau d'Arco I definitely feel better but WITHOUT any "die-off".

    Nausea from Garlic has been said to be die-off, but isn't garlic known for nausea in high doses anyway?

    And I just wonder if the kolorex/horopito is making me nauseous and headachey because it happens to have those properties? Is there really a die-off happening???

    I DO believe in the effectiveness of herbal treatments - I use herbs all the time! But I am feeling quite jaded today from feeling so AWFUL. Plus I think the anti-candida diet is making me GRUMPY! I need chocolate........

    Can anyone help me with some answers here?

    Thanks!

    Ali
  3. tired42long

    tired42long New Member

    Hi Ali, I can't answer your questions because I have the same. Have just started with different alternative methods and esp. have been finding such exasperation with the anti-yeast, sugar diet. I feel like I'm starving and as I told one dr. friend, I had more diversity in diet when I was anorexic!!....way back in High School.Am waiting for some cookbooks I ordered last week.I guess the cravings are supposed to be "proof" that your body is needing that which is destroying you... almost like an addiction. Most of my cravings are going away, but you feel so deprived huh? I guess you have to learn by the adage, "eat to live, not live to eat". It is so hard. As for die off...I have been going through the nausea and so many pains settling in old injury and surgical sites. It is so frustrating because it makes you want to give in. It is SO hard, but other medical interventions don't work and docs have no answers...you HAVE to try other things. I am so sensitive to environmental things, medications ,and I fear some supplements would do the same, so I am leary of trying some things. It is hard for others to know exactly what is going on, as each person has their own body chemistry and reactions. I wish you luck...know you are not alone in this misery.....I am trying to get through the old saying---sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better. OH, but patience is tough to find when you feel so crummy:( I think we have to look at the overall picture. For me, I believe the weather changes are taking its toll, so am not so fast as to give up thinking it is other type of reaction. So many factors are involved. Smiles from Wisconsin. eileen
  4. ali-may

    ali-may New Member

    Ohhh yes, I would have to agree about the lack of diversity in the diet. Luckily I have found yeast-free, sugar-free, gluten-free bread that I can make chicken and salad sandwiches with, and I found some flour that I can bake muffins with. But it's just not the same! I started out feeling happy about what I would be eating, but now there are certain vegetables that I can't even LOOK at anymore.

    Only my family and my partner know that I'm on this diet, I don't feel like telling everyone exactly what is wrong with me and what I'm doing to fix it - I already feel like the people around me think I'm an idiot for having chronic fatigue and for being so interested in health and herbal supplements etc. So I do not look forward to the day - maybe next week - when all the people I work with have an end-of-semester lunch and they notice that I'm not eating much! Usually I would have a lot of nice things at these lunches including breads etc. But if only eat salad, I just KNOW they will all think I'm anorexic!!! They already notice that I've lost weight. But how would I ever explain the purpose of what I'm doing and the fact that having anything with sugar or yeast will be harmful??? I guess a relatively safe option is to have some thickly-cut fries/wedges. Starchy, but a certain amount of potato is allowed on the diet. All chicken dishes have "no-no" ingredients in them, but I will check the menu carefully. And then most people will probably drink alcohol at the lunch - BEER mostly (oh great). So of course I'll be excluded from that as well.

    Oh anyway, I do think this is like an anorexic diet due to the fact that almost everything is excluded! The difference being of course that we are welcome to eat large quantities of the foods we are "allowed".

    I know that I'm not alone in the misery, but it sometimes feels like it! My man ordered a cheesy pizza for his dinner last night and I felt SO deprived!!! I don't mean to whine about it, but this is a really bad time. Not only am I feeling sick and headachey from the horopito extract, I've had a bug this week and now my PERIOD!!! Aargh!!! Tooooo much to handle in one week on top of being tired.

    Sorry to complain so much, I just need to get it out!

    Thanks for your support and words of wisdom though! And I wish you all the best in this treatment! I think we need a candida diet support group! :)

    Ali
    [This Message was Edited on 10/03/2002]
  5. tansy

    tansy New Member

    Hi Ali

    I've not used kolorex myself but if you type kolorex into the search box and press the content button you will find a few posts on it.

    If you have problems metabolising sulhur then garlic will cause these symptoms as can the die off from candida. I made the mistake of assuming the symptoms from garlic were due to toxins from candida die off; but it turned out be the sulphur. Molybdenum solved this problem for me; it's sometimes used to help with candida die off. There's some posts here on molybdenum as well.

    If I were starting from scratch I would use one of the enzyme products first like candex or candigest; it is claimed there are no die off symptoms using this method.

    Good probiotics are essential as well.

    TC, Tansy[This Message was Edited on 08/18/2006]