Dieoff itch is driving me insane What can I do?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by pepper, Feb 9, 2007.

  1. pepper

    pepper New Member

    I am being treated for stealth infections and candida and am really suffering from the die-off. The good news is that stuff is being killed. The bad news is I am so itchy I am going crazy!

    My CFS doctor told me to take Activated Charcoal and Bilberry to minimize the die-off effect. They aren't working.

    I really want to stick to this treatment. Every treatment I have tried I have had to stop for one reason or another, often because of the incredible itch.

    This is not a surface itch so Aveeno baths or Gold Bond Cream or Powder is just not enough. Detox baths with Aloe, baking soda and Epsom salts help some. But I can't spend all day in the tub.

    Any other ideas to lessen the itch?

    Thank you for any ideas.
    Pepper
  2. pepper

    pepper New Member

    Yes, I drink at least 2 liters of pure filtered water every day, most days more like 3 liters. I know the location of every public washroom between my house and every place I go on a regular basis!

    Do you really think that this will go away in a few days? My CFS doc has pulled me off some treatments because the itch wouldn't go away. I sure hope you are right.

    Thanks for your reply. I will make sure that I keep drinking that water.

    Pepper
  3. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    So what part of your body is itching?

  4. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    So what part of your body is itching?

  5. pepper

    pepper New Member

    I am taking a very very low dose of a new colloidal silver that my CFS doctor has discovered. It has been helping many of his Lyme and CFS patients who have stealth infections. If I lower the dose even more, I can reduce the itch so I am wondering if I should lower it again and try to work myself up more slowly.

    The recommended dose is 1 tsp 3 times a day. I am taking 1/8 tsp twice a day and am having this awful itch!

    Any opinions?
    Thanks.
    Pepper
  6. pepper

    pepper New Member

    It would be easier to answer what part of my body ISN'T itching! The worst part of the itch is on my back, esp. between my shoulder blades, the front of my thighs, shins, heels, face, arms and upper chest. Even my scalp sometimes.

    It is not so bad when I wake up in the morning but it is awful at night probably because I have taken my two doses of colloidal silver by that time and it is killing everything.

    Pepper
  7. rockyjs

    rockyjs Member

    Pepper,

    Be sure you call your doctor if you become jaundiced at all (especially watch the whites of your eyes). Candida is very toxic to the liver and itching can be a sign of liver damage. Also itching can be the first sign of allergic reactions starting to antibiotics, antifungals, etc.

    Jan

  8. pepper

    pepper New Member

    Thank you, Jan. I didn't know this. I have a toxic liver to start with so perhaps I need to call my doctor. I have bothered him so many times in the past few weeks that I really didn't want to bug him again. Maybe I need to.

    Thank you.
    Pepper
  9. oaktownboy

    oaktownboy New Member

    what brand are u taking?
  10. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Are you taking MesoSilver or some other brand?

    This is interesting because I wasn't aware that colloidal silver really worked for CFS. I actually took some MesoSilver for a couple of weeks at one point and didn't note any die-off. And my doctor said that he didn't think it would have a systemic effect, even though it was useful as a nasal spray. (I agree about the nasal spray.)

    So you've gotten this kind of itch before when using other products? Which ones?

    How do you know that stuff is being killed? Have there been any positive effects?

    How long have you been taking the colloidal silver?

    I've never heard of anyone itching from a product like this before. Did it surprise your doctor?

    Some people are allergic to silver, you know. I think I read in something about colloidal silver that you should do a test on your skin if you seem to be having a problem. I can't recall how they suggested doing it though.

    If you were allergic to silver, that could be causing your symptoms.

    I would think that if it were working on candida, it would just be in your digestive tract and other mucus membranes (sinuses, vagina, etc.). That doesn't seem to be the case.

    Does silver kill viruses? It sounds like you must be killing some kind of bacteria if indeed you're killing anything. I think.

    The one thing about colloidal silver is that (I think) you shouldn't get resistance from it. It's more like an antiseptic, I think. If so (and you should check this out), you can take any amount you can tolerate and then work your way up without fear of resistant strains.

    I don't know though. It doesn't sound like you're taking very much now.

    And I'm not sure what the right thing would be to flush the toxins out.

    i'm not being of any help, but I will say this is one of the most unusual problems (and treatments) I've seen posted. I will watch more to see what happens.

    Best, Lisa

  11. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Well, it does mention itching here. Their suggestions about what to do aren't seeming to me that helpful though.

    **

    Colloidal Silver & The Herxheimer Reaction

    Herxheimer reactions in response to Colloidal Silver can occur as the body adjusts to the die-off process and responds to the increased load on the lymphatic system – particularly in cases of systemic and chronic conditions and/or severe infections.

    The most common Herxheimer reactions for users of Colloidal Silver are:

    Headache
    Flu-like symptoms
    Itch and rashes
    Flushes
    Usually, the reaction lasts a few days. In more severe cases, reactions can last a week or more.

    In most cases, the reaction tends to be mild and barely noticeable, but there are exceptions, particularly in cases of severe infection. Certain conditions, such as Multiple Sclerosis, Lyme Disease and other spirochetical illnesses can engender noticeable Herx Reactions as the disease-causing pathogens are killed off. Users of Colloidal Silver who take the product for Hepatitis may also experience die-off symptoms, such as headache. Those inhaling silver to treat lung and sinus infection may also feel immediately worse for a few hours or a day before starting to feel relief.

    Herx reactions vary widely, depending on many factors, including the general health of the individual, the condition being treated, the degree of toxicity that exists in the body, the frequency and dosage of Colloidal Silver taken, and the support the body is provided in eliminating the toxins as rapidly as possible. Method of use is also factor. For example, applications that allow concentrated dosages of Colloidal Silver to come in direct contact with the source of infection are more likely to result in a die-off reaction than oral use.

    Although this article focuses on the Herxheimer reaction, please keep in mind that not all users of Colloidal Silver will experience a Herx reaction. However, it is important to be aware of the possibility and to understand that it is a symptom of healing, so that Colloidal Silver users do not become discouraged if symptoms temporarily worsen and/or discontinue use of the product.

    Clarification

    Colloidal Silver does not cause the Herxheimer reaction. Colloidal Silver is non-toxic, and a healthy individual will notice no reaction at all to Colloidal Silver. However, if there is infection in the body, a Herxheimer reaction may result as the infection is killed off. The severity of the Herx reaction is often an indicator of just how much toxicity there was in the body to begin with and is an indicator of the effectiveness of the treatment. It is actually a sign that the body is restoring itself to good health.

    Time Frames

    There is differing data on the timing of a Herxheimer reaction. Some data indicates that it usually occurs between four and 24 hours from the onset of treatment. Others note that between Day 3 and Day 5 of a treatment program is often when the reaction is most noticeable. What appears to be most accurate is that reaction times -- and indeed whether there will be any reaction at all -- are strictly dependent on the individual being treated. Duration of the reaction also varies widely, from an hour or a few hours to days or even a week.

    What To Do In The Event of a Herxheimer Reaction

    If the reaction is mild enough that it can be borne without grave discomfort, the best approach is to continue treatment and assist the body in eliminating the toxins as quickly and as thoroughly as possible by the methods below.

    If the reaction is too severe, cutting back on the dosage or frequency of use can be very helpful in lessening symptoms but allowing the healing process to continue. Sometimes stopping for a day or so and then beginning again at a lesser dosage can allow for quick relief.

    The best assistance for the body is drinking plenty of distilled water (a half gallon a day is recommended).

    Other helpful suggestions include:

    Getting plenty of sunshine
    Minimizing exercise for the detox period
    Keeping the organs of elimination (the bowels, lungs, skin, kidneys, lymph) functioning properly
    Keeping the diet relatively pure during the detox period so that the body is not loaded with additional chemicals and toxins to eliminate while it is already working hard.
    Adding lemon to the water, taking cold press olive oil first thing in the morning, taking sea salt baths and/ or steam baths and saunas, plus liver and elimination system supports can also be helpful, though any herbal supplements should be kept to a minimum and should be very mild and gentle in nature.

  12. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    And here's what it says about silver allergies

    **

    You should not use this product if you are allergic to silver!

    Allergic reactions to silver, while not unheard of, are uncommon. Someone having an allergic reaction to silver would not be able to handle a metallic silver object such as silver jewelry without causing an allergic reaction. Those who are uncertain if they are allergic to silver should apply a few drops to the back of the hand to see if an allergic reaction results. If you do not see a reaction within 30 minutes you can be fairly certain that you are not allergic to silver.
  13. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    I've never gotten enough information on argyria (turning gray from silver use) to make me entirely comfortable with it either. Obviously there are lots of people who use it without any such effects, but what types and how much are okay seems to be an open question. (Not much independent research has been done on this, so I guess that makes sense.)

    In your case though.....if you're getting that big die-off from that small of an amount, perhaps it's worth pursuing. I wouldn't think that a little bit like that, taken over a discrete period of time, would have the agyria risk.

    As long as you're not actually allergic to the silver and are able to bear the itching, of course.

    Most importantly, I wonder what you're killing off. If it's bacterial, it's possible that it's something like chlamydia pneumoniae. Considering how hard that is to get rid of in other ways and how destructive it can be, it would be nice for people to have an option regarding how it might be treated.

    If it's yeast, i'd be inclined to use some other method. (Although if internal use relieves sinus or vaginal infections, that would be interesting too.)

    Does your doctor know what's being killed? How does s/he know, if so?

    Anyway, keep us informed of your progress.

    Best, Lisa


    Disclaimer:

    My intention in posting on this board is only to share my own experiences, provide observations about other people's experiences, and report comments offered by MD's and other medical professionals.

    If I seem to be offering medical advice of the sort that an MD should, this is unintentional. Please don't follow it.


    [This Message was Edited on 02/10/2007]
  14. PVLady

    PVLady New Member

    Try Claritin. It is excellent for skin reactions - itching, hives, etc.

    You could also try Benadryl but it may make you sleepy during the day.
  15. pepper

    pepper New Member

    Oaktownboy, I am taking MesoSilver. My CFS doctor had me on Argentyn23 several months ago but I couldn't tolerate the headaches it gave me. The only reaction I seem to be having to the Meso is increased fatigue and this darn itch.

    Thank you so much for all the information, lisa! As I said above, I am on MesoSilver. My CFS doctor says that it works for people like me who are full of stealth bugs which I am. How do I know? I was on low dose Doxycycline for a short time before my liver enzymes went crazy. During that time I herxed incredibly and when I went to my dentist for my every 3 month cleaning, the hygienist couldn't believe the improvement in my gums. No bleeding for the first time since I came down with CFS, healthy pink instead of red, angry gums. That was one indication to my CFS doc that the Doxy was killing stealth bugs. My gums went back to red, angry and bleeding as soon as I stopped the Doxycycline.

    There are other things that indicate that I am full of bugs too (viruses and/or bacteria) but since I can't take long term ABX or anti-parasitic drugs or anti-virals with my toxic liver, it doesn't much matter what they are so I have to take a more natural approach. My CFS doctor believes that the Meso kills everything bacterial and viral. He is really pleased with how it is helping so many of his patients with Lyme and its co-infections, CFS (those with stealth infections) and some other chronic conditions.

    He is treating a guy from the U.S. who has been seeing one of the top Lyme guys down there. He had some improvement over the years taking ABX, etc. prescribed by this doctor but couldn't regain his health. My doctor started treating him with Argentyn23 and he improved considerably. Since he started on the Meso, my doc told me that his health is just taking off and they are so happy with it.

    I have had this all-over itch thing from Dr. Petrovic's Protocol. I had to stop it after 2 wks because the itch was unbearable. His supplements had lots of B vitamins in them even though I told him that I couldn't take B vitamins. I opened the package of supplements and nearly threw up from the smell of the B's.

    I have had the itch from other things too but I can't remember what, usually from die-off as opposed to an allergy. I wear silver jewellry all the time so I think that I am not allergic to silver.

    I have only been taking the Meso for 2 wks. At first I was just more fatigued. The itch started about 10 days ago. I haven't seen any positive effects yet. But my stealth bugs have been around so long and are probably so embedded in my cells I probably shouldn't expect to notice any improvement for some time. Right?

    My doctor was not surprised by my itch, just surprised by how small a dose it seems to take for me to react. That convinces him even more that I am really full of bugs. I have researched Lyme and co-infections and I do seem to be a classic case - especially mycoplasma and chlamydia pneumoniae.

    I had a massive candida infection in my mouth a month ago after a round of ABX for a sinus infection (which was probably a fungal infection in the first place). I am taking other things to fight the candida so that is probably contributing to the die-off (Oil of Oregano, Miconazole Lozenges, garlic, and some homeopathics). I don't think that the silver attacks candida.

    I have decided to take the day off from the MesoSilver and restart it at a lower dose after the itch goes away. Your research seems to support that idea, lisa. That is good to know. I really appreciate all this info and will definitely keep you updated on what happens with this. If it works, it would be such a gift for so many people on this board.

    Stormyskye, my doctor feels that the dose of silver I am on could not cause the silver skin condition but of course I am watching for it anyways.

    Thanks, PVLady. I am taking the day off from the silver and think that I will take a Claritin to see if it helps get rid of the itch. I am allergic to the red dye in Benadryl and we can't get the dye-free stuff in Canada. Isn't that unbelievable - they put red dye in something like Benadryl. But I do have Claritin and never thought of using it.

    Off I go to take my Claritin and jump in a detox bath while I drink a half gallon of water!

    Thank you all.
    Love, Pepper



  16. LongStruggle

    LongStruggle Guest

    If they are hives (big red welts that are worse in warm locations on body and at night), then antihistamines will help. Benadryl is very good if it doesn't make you sleepy. Otherwise, try claritin (OTC), or allegra (prescrip) or zyrtec (prescip). I had chronic hives for several years. I also found using an anti-inflammatory helped (like ibuprophen). Epsom salt baths, or oatmeal baths are supposed to also help. Hydrocortosone creme (OTC) may help some.
    [This Message was Edited on 02/10/2007]
  17. monicaz49

    monicaz49 New Member

    could be an allergy to the drug. I get that often. Im sensitive to meds, if not the weather.
  18. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Whenever I hear liver problems, I immediately think Traditional Chinese Medicine.

    I don't know how good they are at fixing most things, but liver problems are the one place they excel. This makes sense because liver problems ((especially Hepatitis B) are extremely common in Asia. And it is a good piece of luck, since Western medicine can do very little for the liver.

    For example, my husband had elevated liver enzymes for a couple of years. (They weren't _terribly_ high....about 3-4 times normal.) Finally we happened upon a Chinese doctor (trained in Taiwan), and he gave us some herbs. Within a month, my husband's liver enzymes were substantially below normal. They have stayed down, even though he just took the Chinese medicine that one month.

    Of course, you've got to find a good practitioner. My impression is that there are a lot of Chinese people in Canada, but whether they're in your area is another question.

    The only other thing that I can think of that might help your liver is denatured whey protein, which creates glutathione in the body. I have found that to be quite helpful when I have been suffering toxic effects from taking medicine (i.e. small skin problems, bad taste in mouth).

    The brand I use is ImmunoPro Rx. Oddly, some people on the board cannot tolerate even a pinch of denatured whey protein. Others, like me, benefit tremendously from it. (I take four scoops a day when stressed.) So I don't know if it would help you, but it could be worth trying (especially if you can't find a Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor to help you).

    Killing bugs in any way is hard on the liver. If you could get this problem fixed, it would give you a lot more options.

    Keep us informed about how you're doing.

    Best, Lisa

  19. ETN

    ETN New Member

    how much charcoal are you using....

    when I first started on all of my antibiotics I used this quite a bit.

    My dr told me to just literally take handfuls of it.
    I can take 30-40 a day.

    Maybe try a little bit more than what you are taking. I have found that it helps some .

    Plus when my kids get a really bad tummy ache I give them a couple and it gets rid of it right away...

    good luck
  20. LongStruggle

    LongStruggle Guest

    Because antibiodics are killing the good and bad bacteria in our guts, and if we don't replenish with enough probiotics, a result can be hives.