DMPS vs. DMSA Dr. Cutler vs. Dr. Mercola

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by swedeboy, Jan 18, 2007.

  1. swedeboy

    swedeboy Member

    Hi Ya'll. The more I read about chelation the more conflicting information I find. Mercola suggests DMPS, chlorella, NAC, and other sulfur containing things and says that DMSA is too risky.

    While Cutler says to avoid DMPS IV's, chlorella, NAC, and other sulfur containing things and says that starting out with low Dose DMSA is best. How does one know which to choose if they have metal toxicity?

    I would like to take "sulfur" containing things like chlorella, cilantro, and raw garlic to help detoxify and plus get the other benefits of them.

    But if What Cutler says is true and these "sulfur" things cause permenant harm then I would like to avoid them.

    Cutler says that taking IV's of DMPS can cause more problems and even psychiatric illnesses, because it chelates too much too fast.

    In Rich Carson's "Mercury Detox Protocol" he talks about how DMPS was too strong for him. Rich also suggests Cutler's book "Amalgam Illness" and Rich seems to swing towards Culter's method in his Mercury Detox post.

    However Rich talks about taking chlorella, cilantro, and NAC which Cutler say's can cause permenant damage and should be avoided.

    So should one avoid chlorella, garlic, and cilantro? Who should we believe, After I have studied them both I am left with this dilemma.

    If I avoid chlorella, garlic, and cilantro then I will avoid the stuff Cutler talks about.

    But then I will never get the other benefits, like garlics anti-fungal, anti-viral, and anti-biotic benefits, And I'll never get the chloryphyll in chlorella, etc.., if I choose Cutlers suggestions.

    I think this dilemma goes beyond this, in that some doctors promote one thing while others say avoid it! So how do we know what to choose?

    Any feedback would be great, thanks ya'll.



    Dr. Mercola has a very detailed explanation of his theory, but its too long to post here, you can access it at mercola dot com and then find the chlorella link and then click on the mercury detox protocol link.

    Culter says:
    "Things like, chlorella, NAC, glutathione, cysteine, and "sulfur" foods are not helpful since they are not chelating agents and are not able to successfully
    grab the mercury away from all the sulfur atoms that are a natural part of the biomolecules in the human body.

    They simply mobilize the mercury and stir it around so it does more damage than it would if left to sit quietly until chelated out."

    In a nutshell it runs like this.

    As is always discussed, mercury binds to the thiol groups in enzymes that
    are a natural part of your body.

    Which does imply thiol groups are a natural part of your body. in fact,
    your body has quite a large number of these. A few percent of the amino
    acids inside you are in fact cysteine/cystine and contain sulfur that binds

    mercury quite strongly. So you contain a few hundred grams of cysteine and
    related things, which is much more of it than you eat in a day even on a
    "high sulfur" diet.

    So you have proteins that have one or more thiol groups sticking out that
    grab onto mercury.

    You have things like, chlorella, cilantro, garlic, cysteine, glutathione, etc. that you eat that have a
    single thiol group sticking out that grab onto mercury.

    The thiol groups in your body and the thiol groups in this food (much of
    which ends up incorporated into your body and thus contributes to the thiol
    groups there) pass the mercury back and forth because the food doesn't hold
    onto it any more strongly than your body does. The mercury atoms bounce back
    and forth a lot.

    Since your body has a lot of thiol groups in it, eating more doesn't provide
    a large excess of thiol groups to grab the mercury and carry it out - it just
    provides some extra ones to stir the mercury up.

    If you want the mercury out of there you need to eat something that holds
    onto it more tightly than your body and that is excreted or accellerates
    mercury excretion indirectly.

    Since proper chelating agents have 2 thiol groups per molecule they do hold
    onto the mercury more tightly than most of the biomolecules inside you, so
    it doesn't bounce around as much on its way out."

    Andy Cutler


    [This Message was Edited on 01/22/2007]
  2. spartanjt

    spartanjt New Member

    I had very good success using low dose DMSA orally. Not acc to Cutler's schedule, but just using 50 mg or so per day for 5 days or so & then off for a few days.I got mine through VRP who sells it online.

    Something else to keep in mind about Cutler's book. I've read his book & there is definitely some good info in it. However, after working w/a gentleman who has spent the past 16 years of his life, researching the issues of amalgam poisoning, chelation, etc. i've found that the schedules for taking chelators that Cutler proposes are not practical & can be downright dangerous for many amalgam poisoned folks. His schedules of taking dmsa/dmps every 4 hours is much too aggressive for people like myself who had 13 teeth filled w/amalgam. You need to find you're own correct level of chelating & must go very slowly to start & eventually build to higher levels of intake.

    I've also had some good results using chlorella in the past. if you use the Yaeyama type chlorella, then you know at least you're getting a pure source of it.

    Do NOT use DMPS IV or injection under any circumstances. Too many folks have had very serious negative side effects from this. i would not even consider using DMPS orally. I've networked w/several of the folks damaged by this chelator & would never even consider using it.
  3. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    how long did u chelate for?

    are you confident the improvements you saw were due to the DMSA?

    tnx
    Delia
  4. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Dr. Paul Cheney in his latest DVD The Heart of the Matter recommends the following for chelating heavy metals.

    Selenium 200
    or
    chlorella

    Hawthorn Leaf and flower is also a good chelant and heart tonic


    Dr. Cheney is against NAC because it can chelate too fast. He is also against glutathione injections for the same reason.

    He's been a CFS researcher for many years and well respected in his field. Who do you believe now?

    Hope this helps.

    CherylSue

  5. Pianowoman

    Pianowoman New Member

    With almost every medical condition,especially the complex ones, you will find experts on different sides of the issue. There will often be more than one way to manage a problem. For better or worse, in this case, it is up to us to do our homework and make as informed a decision as we can. Sometimes we have to try things and see how we respond.

    It would be ideal to have an MD or ND who could advise you based on your individual history and to monitor your progress.

    I have tried DMPS and like some others, it was too much for me. For others, it works beautifully. I have had better success with things like chlorella, methionine and selenium.

    Good luck.
    Kathy
  6. swedeboy

    swedeboy Member

    Thanks ya'll for the great feedback!
  7. swedeboy

    swedeboy Member

    I'm not advocating DMPS or DMSA. I am just trying to learn more about them.

    But this is what Dr. Andy Cutler says about DMPS:

    "If you follow a standard "alternative medicine" or "witch doctor" protocol, e. g. DMSA every other day or DMPS injections monthly: you will get worse for 6 months to one year, then slowly get better for another several years - but behavioral and coordination problems are exacerbated by this therapy and emotional symptoms are not alleviated. There is also a substantial risk of psychiatric illness. Total time: a year of misery, 5 years to feel better, but you never will be completely well."

  8. spacee

    spacee Member

    Thinks that DMSA can cause kidney damage and should not be used. He likes natural/herbal remedies but didn't say which (at the conference).

    I tried NAC and it made my urinary tract burn from one end to the other. OUCH!

    Spacee
  9. swedeboy

    swedeboy Member

    Here's the beginning of an article by the National CFIDS foundation:

    "NCF Board Calls for Researcher's Resignation!

    The Board of The National CFIDS Foundation, Inc. (NCF) has called for the
    resignation of Dr. Kenny L. De Meirleir, Professor of Physiology and Medicine at
    the Vrige Universiteit (Free University) Brussel, Belgium, Board Member of the
    American Association for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and editor of The Journal of
    Chronic Fatigue Syndrome put out by The Haworth Medical Press. Dr. DeMeirleir
    both a Ph.D. and an M.D. (clinician) whom, in the board's opinion, should not be
    allowed to ever see patients again."

    You can get the rest from this link:
    http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/CallForResignation.htm

    It very Interesting
  10. Pianowoman

    Pianowoman New Member

    Wow, the stuff from the NCF Board is very interesting. That's a pretty heavy accusation. I wonder what will come of it?

    Kathy
  11. swedeboy

    swedeboy Member

    Yeah the NCF has taken a very strong position on Dr. De Meirleir . I am also interested to see what the outcome is.
    [This Message was Edited on 01/22/2007]
  12. spartanjt

    spartanjt New Member

    I used DMSA orally for several months a few years back.

    Definitely, i can trace my biggest improvements to the DMSA.

    Remember, though, start very slowly & at small dosages. I never took more than 100 mg a day, even after i'd built up the dosage. Its when you take too high a dosage & too soon that you can run into problems.
  13. swedeboy

    swedeboy Member

    I don't know much about EDTA. Dr. Cutler say's it's not good for mercury chelation, but he doesn't really go into detail about why. Cutler mainly focuses on oral DMSA and oral DMPS.

    I just got Cutler's book "'Amalgam Illness,' diagnosis and treatment, and what you can do to get better." Although some of his approaches seem highly controversial I think his book has some very helpful info in it.