Dr. Cheney The Heart of the Matter

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by cherylsue, Dec 31, 2006.

  1. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Dr. Cheney's The Heart of the Matter DVD

    I watched the entire DVD set today. Very provocative. I probably need to rewatch it.

    It does explain some of my symptoms very well.

    Basically, this is an outline:

    Cheney says that CFIDS is an energy deficit due to heart diastolic dysfunction which causes low cardiac output. The adrenal glands compensate by increasing adrenaline and/or lowering the metabolic rate by reduction in thyroid hormones. However, he does not believe in giving thyroid hormones because the problem is not with the thyroid. You need to treat the underlying problem (cardiac output) and the thyroid will come back to life.

    Cheney does not believe in going after one or more viruses. He said he had been a "virus hunter" for 5 years, but found it was better to help the body go after the viruses. Nexavir (available in gel form and applied on the skin) will raise energy and/or raise enzymes level which increase glutatione levels. Viruses cannot replicate in intercellular glutathione. According to Cheney, Nexavir is the most powerful antiviral and increases energy for the heart.

    Nexavir and Hawthorn (just the leaf and flower) work together the best. D-Ribose 1-2 scoops twice a day is also recommended, although 1/3 will not benefit and will find their body cannot process the D-Ribose, in which case it becomes toxic.

    Cheney is opposed to using NAC to raise glutathione. It can release heavy metals and mercury too quickly and can be dangerous.

    Cheney is opposed to receiving glutathione injections which can build up oxidized levels and then release heavy metals.

    CFS lesions on the brain are perhaps ministrokes and account for our disorientation. This problem actually originates in the heart of what he calls PFO's. (I'll have to rewatch the video to describe what they are)

    Hawthorn Leaf and Flower (not the berries) has tested positive in clinical trials. It is cardioprotective and cardio tonic. It protects against ischemic induced arrythmias, helps cardio workload, improves fatigue, and increases long term survival. It is a heavy metal chelate.

    Things Cheney recommends:
    Klonopin - low dose
    B-12 IM hydroxycabalamin
    Omega 3 fatty acids
    Garlic or chlorella
    CoQ 10 (although some people can't tolerate it)

    Magnesium in a cream form. Gives energy for an hour.

    Anything else, ladies, you want to add?


    DVD can be ordered for a nominal fee at www.dfwcfids.org

  2. NyroFan

    NyroFan New Member


    Well, that is glimmer of hope. I will take info I need and apply it to my daily needs.

    Thanks for the tip on the video

  3. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    The reclusive Dr. Cheney is certainly an original thinker. I don't know if he's right or wrong, but he's certainly apart from the rest of the pack. I wonder what kind of results he's getting.
  4. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    He said that he has been treating patients with this protocol during the past year. He has seen a 20-80% improvement.


    Dr. Cheney will also be presenting at the conference on January 13th.
    [This Message was Edited on 12/31/2006]
  5. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The undenatured whey to increase glutathione? He used to recommend the ImmunePro sold here. I take the immunPlex and believe it has been very helpful in rebuilding my own immune system, along with the probiotics and colostrum.

    I don't think he is reclusive so much as he was very sick himself with heart problems and had to give up seeing patients until he had a heart transplant (not related to CFIDS). As soon as he started to heal, he was right back to work. He sees patients and speaks all over the place, as well as continuing his research. He's not a young man and I really appreciate and admire all he's done to further the knowledge about, and attention to, our illnesses. He has sacrificed a lot over the years and at one point, was nearly bankrupt. He does charge a lot now but no more than the other experts in the field.

    Love, Mikie
    [This Message was Edited on 01/01/2007]
  6. jess

    jess New Member

    Hi and Happpy New Year to all,
    I may be wrong and probably am but doesn't Dr. Myhill kind of say something a little different. That is, that the diastolic dysfunction is the result not the cause of low cardiac output. That the cause is mitochodria dyusfunction or energy problem with the mitochodria. I guess it's all related anyway and the results are the same. I shouldn't be knitpicking. Sorry. I have seen Dr. Cheney's DVD and it is really informative. Jess
  7. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Mikie: Yes, he still does recommend ImmunePro but that does seem in contradiction to what he said about glutathione. He highly recommends Nexavir gel for the heart although he said it was the most poten antiviral around.

    He really pooh-poohed NAC and considered NADH a waste of money.

    Jess: You are probably correct about that. Some things weren't always clear for me. There was a lot of jargon.

    Dr. Cheney's thoughts were very provocative. I think we need researchers to think outside the box with CFS. The study of CFS is still in its infancy.

    The statistics from Leonard Jason were rather discouraging, but statistics can always be manipulated. There are so many discrepancies. With so few CFS patients diagnosed, how can those stats accurately reflect the total picture?

  8. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I appreciate your answering me. Perhaps too much glutathione is not good.

    Love, Mikie
  9. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Yeah, according to Dr. C., he nearly died from heart failure and had a transplant and needed some time to heal from that. Is that what you mean by reclusive, Lisa?

    Yes, he still did recommend the undenatured whey powder.

    I think, Carla, that his new DVD has some new information and discoveries in it that the written documents don't have. I wouldn't take glutathione at all after watching it.

    I've watched it three times now, CherylSue, and each time I understand more of it. Well, those statistics from Leonard Jason were taken before anyone tried the new heart protocols. Maybe soon the statistics will get better.

    I agree that it was provocative, shocking, amazing, etc. I've never heard anyone talk about CFS before who seemed to actually understand what is going on as well as he did.

    Two things in his treatment plan I wouldn't do: the B-12 shots and the magnesium shots. Even though they're tiny shots, I can't handle giving myself a shot every day. I'll just have to do my best with oral supplements. (or maybe the magnesium cream)

    I'm going to start trying the Hawthorne pretty soon. I've been doing research on it, so I'll start a new thread about it as soon as I can gather my notes.

    Happy New Year!
  10. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Oh, perhaps I've been a little hard on Dr. Cheney then. He's always seemed to me to be this mysterious guy who comes out every few years to make grand pronouncements that people treat as gospel and then disappears again.

    But I wasn't aware that he had been that sick. In that case, I'm glad he is doing better and still working on this topic.

    I don't agree with him about the NADH, although maybe (as with the antivirals) he thinks he has something that works at a deeper level that can cause the body to make it's own NADH.

    I will put the DVD's on my list of things to buy. They seem to be worth taking a look at anyway.
  11. Kombucha

    Kombucha New Member

    Regarding Hawthorne leaf and flowers. Does Dr. Cheney say to make a tea of it or eat it?

    Thank you. I'm one of those that cannot do the Ribose. And I sure appreciate you putting this information up.

    I internet searched magnesium cream, and it is made of epsom salts which is magnesium sulfate. I've been doing epsom salts rectally--yeah, so I'd like to get this cream around 22 bucks or make my own. Does anyone know if there is a special "delivery" to these creams ?

    Here are 4 kinds I came across:

    Ingredients: Distilled water, magnesium sulfate USP, glycerine, glyceryl dilaurate, glyceryl stearate, PEG 100 stearate, ceteary alcohol, ceteareth-20, isopropyl myristate, imidurea NF, guar gum, methyl paraben and propyl paraben.

    Ingredients: Deionized Water, Medium Chain Triglycerides, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Magnesium Sulfate, Shea Butter, Cetyl Alcohol, Lecithin, Stearic Acid, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate, Potassium Sorbate, Xanthan Gum.

    Ingredients: Purified water, magnesium sulfate, glycerine, glycerol monolaurate, glycerol stearate/PEG 100, cetearyl alcohol/cocoa, glucoside, octyle, salicylate, capryllic capric triglyceride, safflower oil, PEG 8 distearate, dl-alpha tocoperol, polyacrylamide, phenoxyethanol, acrylates/vinylisodecanoatecrosspolymer, alpha lipoic acid, EDTA, citrus seed extract, sodium hydroxide, propyle gallate..

    Ingredients: Distilled water, sunflower oil, magnesium sulfate, polyacrylate, polyisobutene, polysorbate 20, potassium sorbate

    [This Message was Edited on 01/01/2007]
    [This Message was Edited on 01/01/2007]
  12. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    for sharing your thoughts and recommendations, everyone.

    I found some Enzymatic Therapy brand Hawthorn that contained just the leaf and flower on the internet. Unfortunately, IHerb was out of stock. It would be nice if ProHealth had this in their catalog.

    I have just been taking magnesium orally.

    The Nexavir posts on this board have been mixed. Since it was formally Kutapressin many have already tried it with varying degress of success. My CFS doc said it works for awhile then stops. But all the antivirals seem to do the same.

    I've tried the D-Ribose. Unfortunately, I'm one of the stats which it doesn't react favorably. I kept taking it thinking it would help me. After 2 1/2 jars, I was tired of the fatigue and malaise. However, for some it has been a godsend. One man's meat is another man's poison.

    Dr. Cheney spoke several times on heavy metals, especilly mercury. I think he said that he feel viruses combined with mercury poisoning trigger CFS. That's what I mean by provocative. One of our posters on this board Allxrider has been talking about this a lot. His doctor is treating him for EBV and mercury.

    High doses of NAC 1000mg a day can trigger serious reactions. Dr. Cheney said he knew of two CFS patients (not his) who jumped off bridges because they chelated too quickly on the NAC.

    As I said before, his DVD's gave a lot of info. It will take awhile for it all to absorb.

  13. spacee

    spacee Member

    For watching the DVD's and posting. The stuff about Dr. Cheney on the homepage here was very old. But then with his health and all, perhaps that is why it has not been updated.

    I took Kutapressin for 16 years (the old Nexvir). I am wondering if they did something different in the Nexvir or maybe adding the Hawthorne is the key.

    For me the stuff that has been the most help is the Transfer Factors...ever so much better for me than Kutapressin. Hmmm.

    I KNOW though that my heart is a big part of my problem. I am looking forward to my sis being here and us going to the conference. She was really the first one that "diagnosed" my heart tachycardia.

    Anyway, I am ready to try all this stuff. It has to be cheaper than the TF's. We will see.

    Thanks again!!

  14. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    I'm so glad you are going to the conference. You should see Dr. Cheney's presentation on the 13th. Please take notes on all you hear and report back to us.

    Good health to you in the New Year!

  15. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Two patients on NAC _jumped off bridges_ because they took too much? That's like two of Ted Hughes' wives (Sylvia Plath and another literary type) killing themselves by putting their heads in the gas ovens.

    I wonder why bridges in particular. Maybe because this is suited to especially impulsive decisions, perhaps?

    Moral of that story: if you're going to take NAC (or maybe other glutathione supplements), stay far away from rivers, I guess.
  16. spacee

    spacee Member

    You caught that and I missed it entirely! I tried the NAC before I knew to stay away from bridges. It really hurt me from one end of my urinary tract to the other.

    I am sitting here imagining ALL THE STUFF everyone has tried lined up and circling the planet. Wonder how far it would reach. I think I have tried about 20 for every one thing that helps. And I am still willing to try! Can't give up.

  17. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    That made me chuckle.

    I guess the point Dr. C was trying to make was that if you chelate mercury too quickly, you can have some serious disturbances.

    You would have to watch this DVD. At times, it's even a bit scary. I didn't write about all of it. But at times, it is hopeful, too.

  18. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hey, Linda,

    Someone in the audience of the lecture mentioned using a magnesium cream made by Kirkman labs. But the thing is, you have to use it every hour! Ack.

    I agree, CherylSue, that I didn't even try to summarize the whole lecture, because I just wouldn't be able to do it justice.

  19. Kombucha

    Kombucha New Member

    Thank you for all the info. Every hour is NOT worth it.

    I'll keep trying things because this mitochondrial/heart stuff has been working for me after a 9 month inability to budge up the CFS rating scale. I'm going to add the Hawthorne and try that next.

    It does seem that there is a convergence on what is good for the mitochondria/metabolism is good for us.

  20. spacee

    spacee Member

    But then I got to thinking about, what if we needed some "extra" energy to attend a wedding or something. That would be worth it to me.

    I am just thinking about my son's wedding. I was on Kutapressin then and what I would have given for some extra energy. All the relatives here and all the preparations. We ended up going to the city of the wedding early and staying in a hotel so I wouldn't be worn out. I would have been slipping some of that cream on my legs under my dress!!

    [This Message was Edited on 01/02/2007]

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