Dr. J/Lyme?

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease Archives' started by herbqueen, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. herbqueen

    herbqueen New Member

    Hi Everyone--haven't been here in awhile. History 10+ years FMS (mostly muscle pain, stiffness, some brainfog, headaches , insominia etc)diagnosis, 3 years ago optic neuritis (negative MS, positive IGENEX 2 bands) with optic neuropathy atrophy in one eye....increased neuro symptoms with onset of neuritis ongoing intense brain fog-muscle twitches, jerking, coordination issues, eye pain both eyes. Etc. done everything past 10 years-- you name it done it for bodywork , diet etc. Zhangs herbs 10 months, now on Buhner past year--was on on LDN for a year . Candida treatment (herbal and nystatin-I test positive for yeast according to Great Plains Labs and have skin fungus all over torso which has spread last 3 years). Had silver fillings removed last year. I've avoided abx since ( I know I have trust issues) not fully convinced this is Lyme since my mother has IBS/FMS, sister with interstital cystitis, sister with colits, nephew with ASD-- and have read about GAPS theory-gut and psychology syndrome.. so wonder about gut health being key to immune system and family connection. Of course ABX would be worst thing for gut health. Almost ready to do Diflucan (for yeast) followed by abx treatment -given I tried everything else,but not QUITE there yet.I also did ashok's amygdala retraining-and I did get better---but also maintained candida diet and buhner's herbs..stayed fairly well for past 1.5 yr on that treatment (some overlap with LDN)..but this past month old neuro symptoms are back (but not as bad as before). Thinking about the recent post on Dr. J--before I try abx.There does not seem to be alot of comments on him/his treatment on the web. Does it work? Are there references? There is no way I will sink the $$ into going to clinic.. but wondering about self treating with medicines? Does anyone know what they cost and if you can self treat? Are they reasonably priced? I'd like to try the neuro symptoms remedy... maybe.. followed by lyme treatment? I worry about spending yet more$$$ with no lasting benefit. i.e. Zhang's treatment was over $2500.00 and after 8 months I got worse had new symptoms I never had before.. it really did nothing to improve my health. I probably have at least 100K over past 10 years in treatments and supplements. (Yes I still manage to work full time from home with air travel through all of this. I have to in order to pay for my treatments!)I do like Dr. J's theory of herxing not being necessary. Having seen others do years of intense abx -and no lasting benefits and get really sick.. I'm skeptical about intense herx/get better theory and wonder about long term damage to the body. Appreciate any comments on dr J and also reasonable abx approach/reference of who abx with chronic long term lyme has worked for? I don't see many "Lyme" success stories out there..............
  2. Nanie46

    Nanie46 Moderator


    I haven't done herbal treatments.

    I am on antibiotics and haven't had any problems with yeast. I take 4 caps daily of Ultimate Flora Critical Care probiotics. I also do not eat sugar.

    I have to wonder if some of the other people in your family also have lyme.

    Many people with FMS later found out they have lyme. Interstitial cystitis can also be a lyme symptom, along with digestive problems.

    There has been evidence showing that lyme can cause autism. In children, lyme often causes psych symptoms....


    Many family members often are infected since they live and play in the same areas. Also, lyme is sexually transmitted, transmitted from mother to fetus, and also through breastfeeding.

    I trust my LLMD. I have had some improvements, and I know I have a long way to go.....afterall I had a FMS diagnosis for 21 years before I discovered the real cause of my symptoms myself.

    I urge you to go to lymenet.org.....click on flash discussion.....sign up for free......click on Medical Questions board.......create a post asking your questions.

    Lymenet.org is a very busy board, unlike this one, unfortunately.

    I think that people who have recovered and are living a normal life, just move on and don't spend alot of time on the boards.

    If you go to lymenet.org, please make 1-2 sentence paragraphs and then double space between them like I am doing here.

    Many people with neuro symptoms cannot read a huge,long paragragh...and therefore they will have to skip over your post and not respond.

    I am assuming that you have done lots of your own research on chronic lyme.

    If not, I can point you to some very good sites. There are also some at the top of this board.

    Glad you came back here. Wishing you all the best.
    [This Message was Edited on 10/22/2009]
    [This Message was Edited on 10/22/2009]
  3. victoria

    victoria New Member

    I'm not sure which Dr. J you're referring to, obviously not the one relocating up the eastern seaboard tho as my son went to him for abx. His opinion was that if one did not herx, you were fooling yourself. It seems like most doctors no matter what their treatment adhere to this, since Lyme is a spirochete like syphilis (during treatment for that, a pt will also herx).

    Then again, my daughter at 9 had Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, which is spirochete caused also, and ended up in ICU for 10 days with IVs. Hard to say whether there was a herx or not, as when she was admitted, her chances were at best 50/50 as our doctor (and us) almost missed it.

    good luck, let us know what you decide and how you do...
    all the best,

  4. herbqueen

    herbqueen New Member

    I'm interested if people claim they've improved significantly or in remission/healed with Dr.

    Jernigan's treatment? Does anyone see success stories on the lyme boards for his treatment? What do the
    lymies think about his treatment? I called his center and it sounds like it is 10K for 2 weeks!!!!! and then more trips after that..but

    they have remote treatement/do it yourself kit. I'm waiting on that price for that. I do want to and need to keep

    working, so I don't want severe herxing and I know from past experience my worst points take

    a year or more to recover from... I have contineud to work through the worst of symptoms for past 11

    years ( I have been on CATS Claw, sarsparilla, and devils claw a year now without major herxing and before that zhang's herbal treatment and did not suffer sever herxing. I could not

    take reservatrol (nervous system shaking started and could not function on that))---Two

    years ago I had explosion of nervous system symptoms and new symptoms emerge while on

    combo of zhang and buhner (zhang said it was oK). It took me 6 months to recover after

    stopping the supplements .. so I don't consider that a "herx"

    I've had my good cycles and my really bad ones (especially with onset of optic

    neurits 3 years ago and major neuro symptoms). I think my perfect life style (food , exercise,

    mediation etc) has kept me going. I still worry about Lyme being the new catchall. No on

    really knows what causes autimmune.. viral , bacterial etc. I don't doubt that there are viral,

    toxicity, bacterial issues going on. Something is for sure. And could be a combination with

    poor genetics or put gut health/microflora passed on through mother in birth canal (GAPS-Gut

    and Psychology Syndrome theory for autism, immune issues etc.). My 13 year old daughter

    is recently having IBS issues. This again points to gut issues and immune issues in my family

    history (mother fms, ibs), sister 'colitis, sister autoimmune interstitial cystitis (toxic urine

    according to GAPS theory). I don't have the gut/IBS/bowel issues-but I do test positive for

    yeast according to great plains full acid test (speciality lab specializing in autism). That is

    even after extreme candida diets, nystatin, and herbal treatments and the best probiotics.

    I also have skin fungus--again pointing to possible systemic yeast/GAP theory. My dr. (MD but

    alternatively minded)wants me to try diflucan next on theory of systemic yeast..and THEN

    ABx/antivirals if that fails. He is a generalist but open guy.... not a LLMD I'd say. So back to

    Dr. J. What do you guys see on the message boards regarding his treatment? I can't find alot

    of testimonials when i search.
  5. Renae610

    Renae610 New Member

    I read his Beating Lyme Book and have taken my daughter to Dr. J's clinic for 3 separate visits. The first time was two weeks and she experienced miraculous improvement.

    I met other patients and their family members there and have heard several real stories of significant improvements and recoveries from chronic conditions, including Lyme. Some of these Lyme patients had been all over the country but didn't get better until they worked with Dr. J. I met a lady who couldn't walk and can now walk. Dr. J. expects miracles and they do happen regularly. Dr. J had Lyme with heart problems, etc. in the past too.

    Here are a few points I can share in response to what you've written:

    (1) Doctors are supposed to give you a "clinical diagnosis" of Lyme if you have classic symptoms; many doctors don't do that and just rely on blood tests before treating.

    (2) Blood tests aren't reliable. Two Western Blot tests and ELISA failed to diagnose my daughter. Once Lyme has gone deep into your tissues and is neurological, your body may not be producing enough antibodies to show up on some blood tests.

    (3) IgeneX is probably the best blood test, but when Dr. J. used his BRT = BioResonance Scanning (his advanced energy testing) on my daughter, he found one coinfection that IgeneX had missed! He found other things that years of medical tests and less advanced energy testing had missed. So, if you really want to put an end to confusion and know what infections you have and assess what condition your organs are in, I strongly recommend Dr. J. BRT takes the guesswork out of doctoring, as it tests your body also for what products will work and in what dosages. Based on BRT, he knows what treatments and therapies will work for you too. (It is unfortunate how much time and money most of us have wasted on experimentation!)

    (4) Antibiotics are often used for the initial onset of Lyme, but they are not the answer for Chronic Lyme Disease.

    (5) You ask if "Chronic Lyme Disease" is another "catch-all" basket? Lyme is a REAL borrelia infection. Usually you have other coinfections with it, and yes, that includes Candida Albicans (yeast overgrowth) and you should be on the Candida diet.

    But is Lyme only about those organisms?? NO!!! This is what many of us fail to understand and one key reason why we are not getting well with all the bug-killing attempts! Dr. J says that the average healthy person has more microbes than cells in his/her body, so your chronic illness isn't simply about borrelia or coinfections, but why is your unique body unable to keep your microbial load in balance? Many people have Lyme but no symptoms until some point in their life their immune system is compromised or there is some other weakness that causes them to become symptomatic!! You've got to find and correct what is causing your body overall to be out of balance!

    One "cause" can be a dysregulated ANS (autonomic nerveous system); there is a specialist in Tacoma WA who developed OSB (oral systemic balancing) to correct this and I hear that some patients have gotten miraculously well from this (it is expensive but if you have this problem and don't correct the ANS it can shorten ones life).

    Another issue is that Lyme affects the electrical output/energy of your body. So you must eliminate interferences by wearing a pendent (BioPro) that helps protect you from EMF (electromagnetic fields). Many Lyme patients can be sensitive to Geopathic Stress also, and should have their house professionally tested and treated; I had this done and my daughter felt less stressed. The immune system cannot heal if G.S. is going on.

    (6) Anyway, at Dr. J.'s clinic, you start with a CRT test (approx. $100) which picks up even subtle irregularities in body functions. This is followed by BRT/patient evaluation ($300), and treatments, therapies, and supplements that BRT finds will help you. You can figure that you'll spend $750 initially. Can you AT LEAST afford to do this?? If so, it will give you a good baseline to start at so you know how to proceed at the clinic or at home. (You have to pay upfront for however long you plan to stay.).

    (7) If you have never seen this advanced level of energy testing and treatment, you may initially think this is odd, but this is high level SCIENCE and it works and often times quickly! For example, one treatment of neurophoton therapy-- afterward my daughter has been able to go out in the sunshine without her eyes burning. Also, in a couple office visits Dr. J and Dr. S. J. got rid of Chronic nausea that she has had for 10 years and noone else could solve!!! In one office visit he fixed food allergies/sensitivities.

    (8) Dr. J. discovered that Lyme patients need to get rid of ammonia, so he created a product for that, which you take for at least 8-12 weeks. Then you take the anti-microbial products in the order his book says. The book recommends Far Infared sauna, ion cleansing, dry skin brushing, etc. and you may be able to do that at home. I recommend buying your own ion cleanse machine to use regularly at home.

    Many people have simply gotten his book and done all that it says and gotten well, but I strongly recommend going to the clinic, because Dr. J. could find some underlying causes of why your other treatments have not worked.

    (9) I was fortunate to get a local M.D. to write a referral to Dr. J's clinic. I explained that all medical and alternative attempts to help my daughter over 10 years had failed, so with her being hardly able to eat anything and such poor quality of life-- this is indeed now an emergency and this is the doc to help!! The M.D. asked to see the website. Do whatever it takes, herbqueen, to get yourself on the road to recovery!!! Best wishes to you!!


  6. herbqueen

    herbqueen New Member

    Thank you Renae for your detailed and thoughtful and reply. I have ordered Jernigan's book,

    and will try a do it yourself approach. Perhaps I can visit his clinic on a work trip(but I don't

    have any customers in KS......) I am on the fence about abx. Given I have not done them- I

    wonder if I should at least give them a go for a few months.. maybe doxcycline. I have been

    so against abx.. but I am reconsidering. I think back on my daughter's chronic ear infections.

    We would use abx -she'd feel really well fast and then boom the infection would come back

    with a vengance. It wasn't until we saw an alternative md did she recover with homeopathy.

    The ear infections did re-occur but not with the vengance of abx and eventually ceased to

    exist. Within a few months she was totally better and never had another one. I agree on the

    body weakness theory contributing to long term illness. I remember while in college 25+ years

    ago- I had a strange sensation in my legs/twitches or something (but no other lyme symptoms and I have the family history issues-so I do think there was

    something going on long before my FMS/Lyme hit 12 years ago. My symptoms do fit classic

    lyme though...initially stiff neck, intense headaches, eye pressure, stiff muscles/muscle pain,

    intense insomnia only followed by intense neurologica 7 years later (optic
    neurits,musclejerking, coodination, muscle twitches etc etc)

    Anyway, THANK YOU for your input. Please keep us posted on your daughter's recovery. Does

    she continue to improve? One other question.. did you try Dr. Cowden's protocol (samento, cumanda, burbur etc etc. ?) I've done Buhner's cat's claw (whole herb approach) but not tried dr. Cowden's.)
  7. Renae610

    Renae610 New Member

    Yes, you do have classic symptoms of Lyme.

    If you've done Buhner's and other approaches and are not better, then I would say that you need professional help to correctly diagnose you and to find a plan that is tested to work energetically with your body.

    It's just like my daughter-- she used Dr. Cowden's products for a year and other supplements and therapies for years without much noticeable improvement! "Something" in her being was preventing her recovery.

    Keep in mind that healing requires addressing body, mind, and spirit. Must detoxify. Emotional blockages can be effectively removed with energy medicine techniques.

    By June 22 of this year, my daughter met Dr. J. I wish I'd known of him long ago!!! Most patients start getting better within days!!! My daughter did. But now something is keeping her from improving. Dr. J. wants her ANS (autonomic nerveous system) tested by Dr. R. in Tacoma WA, the expert on OSB (oral systemic balancing). If he has to fix her ANS with OSB, I'm told that her body will re-regulate and we could see a big miracle recovery.

    But your "weakness" could be this or something else. You could run to countless doctors and not find it. You could even be using Dr. J's book and still not get better because you need him to diagnose ALL that is going on in your body.

    You will never see healthcare the same again after reading Dr. J's book. And once you've read that, go get the initial evaluation so you know where you're at and what all you're supposed to be treating. For example, if you do not know what coinfections you have, you cannot know how to treat yourself most effectively. There is a certain way each coinfection must be handled. Dr. J has changed the order of treatment for my daughter to target certain coinfections. There is also a certain order that the body heals, so if you are taking a supplement at the wrong time, it won't do much good!

    Listen to this: http://hansacenter.com/lyme-interview.html

    Dr. J's book explains the reasons why antibiotics are not the answer and cause damage. Very important to educate yourself on this!!!! Yes, relapse is very likely and you set yourself up for PLS (post-lyme syndrome). So I strongly recommend that you use Dr. J's anti-microbial products instead--much safer and proven to be far more effective. But you have to clear out ammonia in your body with L-Ornithine/L-Aspartate beforehand.

    Best wishes for your recovery!!!

  8. victoria

    victoria New Member

    there are other alternative protocols as well.

    I agree, you should check out the above 'sticky' and flash lyme net... lots of info to read on, lots to decide about.

    Unfortunately there's no magic bullet. I believe 3.5 yrs of oral abx(!) saved my son's life, but I don't think I could take them like he did. I have seen failures with most everything, but there are also success stories.

    I truly believe it's dependent on the panoply of all the infections we end up with, it's rarely 'just' Lyme.

    Good luck, hope you find some answers and relief, and most of all a good LLMD that knows what to do and helps you out financially re charges....

    all the best,

  9. herbqueen

    herbqueen New Member

    Well I tried my first abx as part of a candida treatment (one last candida approach before

    considering abx for lyme with my GP). The candida treatment as outlined by Dr. McCandless

    (autism expert) was a combo of flagyl (keep clostridia in check which tends to rise when killing

    yeast) and diflcuan for 10 days, 4 days off of flagyl for spores to hatch (continue diflucan)

    and then 10 days again of combo. Well it's strange but I felt stronger , had no pain in my body

    and felt mentally clearer BUT short term memory was MUCH worse at the same time. I felt

    totally toxic on the flagyl- tongue turned white with yellow cast-horrible taste in mouth. Lost

    all appetite and desire to eat. My day 7 totally stopped sleeping( I don't have good sleep

    lately even when not on the drugs). My brainfog got so intense I could barely function. I was

    putting the phone in the dish cabinent. Could not even follow a recipe. Thank god I was on

    vacation last week -I could not have functioned at work (and I work mostly from home). I

    stopped the flagyl on day 7 and continued the course of diflucan. It took me 5-6 days to get

    my appetiite back (also had no sense of smell or taste-also still recovering that).

    So not sure if this was a HERX or drug toxicity? Now really worried what abx will do to me if I

    start that! I would have to take a medical leave of absence if I react like I did to the flagyl(seeing my GP who is now treating lyme/with abx (orals only- he won't use IV for

    risk of losing his license). Since I already have vision loss- neurotoxins are a concern to me about losing vision in my good eye.

    I was such in a fog and desperate that I ordered Jernigans CNS/PNS detox formula. Not sure if

    it is working on not (been on it for a little over a week now).
  10. herbqueen

    herbqueen New Member

    Hi Renae- I did order Jerigan's book-- although I do find it challenging to consider doing all the

    things and the frequency he recommends in the book. Now body brushing and doing the baths . My wonderful husband built me an out door beautiful woodfired swedish sauna 2 years ago for detoxing. As it turns out I am so sensitive the northern white cedar (he had specially milled- less scent than red cedar in theory) bothers my lungs and gives me asthma like symptoms and I've never had lung issues before in my life. That's how sensitive I am. So frustrated that hear I have this wonderful detox mechanism and wonderful outlet for cold new england winters and can't use it!!!

    (altough the baths/heat tends to make my head /brain fog worse). I ordered the CNS/PNS detox

    II. You mention L-Ornithine/L-Aspartate for neuro detox? The tincture for CNS/PNS detox does

    not have that in it? Is that something you order for jernigan or find at a HFS? I would like to try the jernigan products, but disappointed about how expensive everything is from him. I"d

    gladly pay it if I knew it worked and alot more..........but always wondering if this is just yet

    another $$$ blackhole! Sorry so negative today. I'm still recovering from the drugs- haven't

    felt this bad in over 2 years.
  11. Renae610

    Renae610 New Member

    I totally understand the $$ blackhole issue, wasting time and money, and the negativity of it all. Frankly, I do not recommend experimenting with the body, drugs, and products-- too risky, expensive, and does not work. If you can't afford one or two weeks at Dr. J's clinic, then I would say at least set an appointment for the CRT test and new patient evaluation with BioResonnance Scanning (BRS). That will cost around $750. Then you'll know exactly what is going to work for you or not. That will save you money in the long run.

    Either have him or your local chiropractor get your body aligned too, because no products are going to work if you are structurally misaligned. Also make sure your TMJ and oral alignment is x-rayed and perfectly aligned for ANS (autonomic nervous system) function.

    L-Ornithine/L-Aspartate is to rid the body of ammonia. Patients take that first for 8-12 weeks before starting CNS/PNS.

    It has to be a "Far Infrared sauna" that you use, not any other kind. The book tells the difference. My daughter is extremely sensitive too. She used FIR sauna a few times and now can't tolerate that anymore. So I do understand having sensitivity issues. That's all the more reason to be under a doctor's care.

    A local natural clinic will have Ion cleansing (foot bath). This is one of the best detoxing you can do. I can't emphasize this enough. Buy your own machine will save you much time and money too.

    I admire how you have a home business. I've been trying to find something legitimate and that works for my situation. I'm glad you have that!! <smile>
    [This Message was Edited on 12/02/2009]
  12. herbqueen

    herbqueen New Member

    Can you purchase that at a HFS or do you have to purchase for Jernigan? I don't remember in the book them mentioning the 12 weeks of that before the detox tinctures. I'll have to go back and look at that.
  13. Renae610

    Renae610 New Member

    My daughter checked her records, and she started L-Ornithine/L-aspartate at the same time as CNS/PNS. She took Parafree and Digest then too along with a homeopathic.

    She got L-Ornithine/L-Aspartate from Dr. J's clinic so we didn't check the HFS.

    CNS/PNS is for neurotoxins.

    Maybe you could write a page about your situation and fax to Dr. J. and do a phone consult for him to advise you.

    [This Message was Edited on 12/02/2009]