Dr. TeitelbaumTreatment Approach

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Slayadragon, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Lots of people have been discussing Dr. Teitelbaum's book. I thought I therefore would share my experiences and ask if people have other suggestions of things that have worked for them (so that I can investigate them more thoroughly).

    I think his book should be required reading for CFS sufferers. This is not because he is an expert and has any magic answers. What he has done is compile most of the treatments that other doctors interested in CFS have stated to possibly be effective, and then compiled them all in one place.

    This makes it a useful reference guide for ideas to try. It does not make it "the answer."

    I have tried every single thing mentioned in this book, with a couple of exceptions of nutritional supplements. (This does not count the chapter on pain--not my problem. I also have not used one of the yeast drugs or most of the antibiotics, because I have not needed them.)

    The majority of the things that I am doing now are in the Teitelbaum book. I believe I would be at about 20% if I were to not do any of them. I am currently at about 60%. This has been stable for about five years (except when something--especially yeast--goes out of whack and I take a nosedive). I doubt it will go higher unless I get my high viral load under control (we're working on it), but i nonetheless think that the measures have done a lot for me.

    I do strongly disagree with Teitelbaum's approach of trying everything at once. That is bad science. I have tried these things one at a time. Sometimes if something hasn't worked in the past, I will go back again later when I am better to see if it makes a difference. Different strengths also make a difference---I didn't think NADH did anything for me until years after I first took it. 5 mg did nothing; 20 mg helped substantially. It's a constant tweaking process.

    I thought it might be useful for me to share with you a summary of what I'm doing with regard to my health right now (or what I have done in the past and intend to do in the future if necessary). Obviously everyone's experiences will vary.

    Note that I have started by identifying apparent health problems. Then I have listed treatments under them. If I can figure out or guess what the problems are, then I can try to target them directly. Otherwise I'm just shooting in the dark.

    I do try to address all these problem areas on a regular basis, so that they don't become big problems.

    With regard to the notations:

    ( ) Paragraph notation around a health problem or treatment means I have not yet tried it but may consider it.

    ? Question mark after treatment means that it may work (at least slightly), but that I am not sure.

    Note that (after a recent test) that I believe that stealth viruses are my main problem at this point. My next focus will be to do everything that I can to address this, starting with the anti-virals. (This seems such a severe problem that I am not surprised that non-drug remedies do not provide major help. This is a new category of drugs and so it may take a while, but this is my current focus since I seem to be at a standstill with everything else. I have used transfer factor for a few months and felt no response, good or bad.)

    Probably if something is not on this list, I have tried it and found it not to be helpful, at least at the time that I used it. Please ask for my experience, though.

    Please also ask specifics about various treatments.

    If you have suggestions about any of these health areas that have been especially useful for you, please share!!!!!


    Health Plan

    1. Stealth Viruses
    a. (Anti-virals)
    b. Vitamin C
    c. Goldenseal?
    d. Astralagus?
    e. Olive Leaf Extract?
    f. Colloidal Silver?
    g. ProBoost?

    2. Acute Viruses--e.g. colds, flu)
    1. ProBoost
    2. Vitamin C
    3. Goldenseal

    3. Bacteria, Mycoplasms, Parasites
    a. Check through stool test, treat with antibiotics if necessary
    b. Citrus seed extract
    c. Vitamin C
    d. Colloidal Silver?

    4. Nutrition
    a. Balanced diet
    b. Healthy foods--organic, fresh
    c. Blood sugar stability--regular meals, chromium
    d. No sugar, white flour, fruit juice
    e. Avoid allergic foods

    5. Hormones
    a. Adrenals : DHEA, pregnenelone, Florinef, adrenal extract, ginseng
    b. Thyroid—T3
    c. Oral Oxytocin
    d. Estrogen estrodiol patches---Vivelle
    e. Oral Progesterone---Prometrium
    f. Oral Testosterone
    g. Testosterone Cream
    h. Oral Cortisone---for times of stress
    i. (MSH---immune system and anti-inflammatory???)

    6. Systemic Yeast
    a. Herbs: rrotate goldenseal, pau d’arco, garlic, artemesia, citrus seed extract;, maybe oregano oil
    b. Probiotics: 10 billion organisms per day, rotate types
    c. Nystatin;
    d. Ampotericin B
    e. Diflucan

    7. Nasal Infection
    a. Diflucan long term--if fungal
    b. Colloidal silver nasal spray
    c. Bacterial ointment--if bacterial

    8. Recurrent Vaginal Yeast (To Try Shortly)
    a. Manage Ph --Boric Acid
    b. Kill Yeast--Ampotericin B, Nystatin, Monistat, Diflucan; goldenseal??
    c. Reintroduce Probiotics

    9. Vaginal Bacteria
    1. Metrogel
    2. Control Yeast---vinegar douche with probiotics

    10. Sleep
    d. Klonopin
    e. Doxepin
    f. Xanax
    g. Regular sleep patterns
    h. Melatonin (just for jet lag)
    i. Ambien (just for emergencies)
    j. Meditation

    11. Food allergies
    d. Leaky Gut: digestive enzymes, glutathione through ImmunoPro Rx, aloe vera juice
    e. Need more allergy testing
    f. Stomach acid--betaine hcl acid
    g. Need Stool Test—Parasites?

    12. Toxicity
    a. Vitamin Cs
    b. Glutathione--ImmunoPro Rx
    c. Juice fasting
    d. Clean water
    e. Organic natural food
    f. Steam shower--scrub afterwards
    g. Air purifier: Austin Healthmate
    h. Clean furnace filters, air duct cleaning
    i. Chemical avoidance
    j. Epsom Salts Bath
    k. Cobalt Chloride?

    13. Mood
    a. Lamictal
    b. St. Johns Wort
    c. DLPA
    d. L-Theanine

    14. Stress Reduction
    a. Avoid arguments and emotional stress
    b. Recuperation after work or exercise
    c. Sleep as much as needed
    d. Journal

    15. Muscle Stiffness
    a. Yoga
    b. Coenzyme Q10
    c. Magnesium?

    16. (Blood Clotting?)
    a. (Aspirin?)
    b. (Heparin?)

    17. Coenzymes
    a. CoQ10
    b. NADH--sublingual
    c. Are there other coenzymes available? (Coenzyme A?)

    18. Other Allergies
    1. Air purifier
    2. Vitamin C

    19. Vitamin/Mineral Support
    a. Multi Vitamin/Mineral
    b. Vitamin C: Emergen-C
    c. B Complex--Stress
    d. Calcium--Bones
    e. Magnesium--Bones, Stress; Muscle Stiffness?
    f. Chromium---Blood sugar stability

    20. Physical Injury ---e.g. sprains
    a. Human Growth Hormone
    b. Vitamin C

    21. Constipation
    a. Stagnant energy
    b. Insufficient fiber
    c. Yeast
    d. Thyroid
    e. Aloe Vera Juice
    f. Flaxseed?
    g. Colon cleanse
    h. Stool Test

    22. Stagnant Energy/Trigger Point Swelling
    a. Yoga
    b. Reflexology
    c. Neural Therapy
    d. Massage etc.
    e. Healthpoint

    [This Message was Edited on 10/12/2006]
    [This Message was Edited on 10/12/2006]
    [This Message was Edited on 10/12/2006]
  2. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Thanks for sharing.

  3. Daisys

    Daisys Member

    This is a very useful post.

    One comment I have to make concerns trying everything at once. I have thru 20 years or more tried many things, one at a time. Some things I know help me, but many I couldn't tell. It's a very slow process.

    Having all aspects worked on at once (sleep, hormonal support, infection, and nutrition) worked real well for me. I started recovering immediately. Once I feel good for 6 months, one thing at a time will be removed and I'll know which I can then drop and which I need to keep.

    I generally agree with the 'try one thing at a time' approach. So, I guess my point is, it worked well for me, and I can see an individual deciding either way, depending on their circumstance.
  4. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I agree with Dr. Teitelbaum's approach to healing CFS -- that we need to treat all the symptoms at once. However, I do add one new supplement or treatment at a time, as you do, or else I wouldn't be able to tell which ones help.

    If you're having constipation and you haven't tried magnesium, I would definitely recommend it. It's the world's best laxative. I use magnesium asporotate, because I try to take the most easily absorbed forms of all the minerals.

    It also helps with sleep.

    I recently started using Candidase for systemic yeast. It's very powerful and I have to take a much smaller dose than recommended. But it seems to work very well.

    I previously used grapefruit seed extract for "critters", and it gave me a stomach ache, so I couldn't take enough to actually kill the yeast. After annoying my yeast for a long time with the GSE, it finally seemed to develop a resistance to it.

    But the Candidase (or other brands of cellulose enzymes), the yeast can't become resistant to! It basically digests their cell walls. Bwa-ha-ha! (evil laughter)

    I had better go find the thread about yeast and post about my experience.

    Best wishes, Lisa! And thanks for sharing!

    (Oh, have you tried essential fatty acids? My fish oil and evening primrose oil are among my favorite supplements.)

  5. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    The Candidase/cellulase sounds interesting. Some of the digestive enzymes I have used have had some cellulase, but not much. I read your post from before---it sounds like it did do something for you. I will see if I can find some and give it a try. (My doctor is supposed to be getting me a general "protocol" on getting rid of as much yeast as possible before I go on the anti-viral, but he's being very slow about it.)

    I liked the evil laughter description.

    I always take about 400 mg of magnesium, but that's a good point about it helping constipation. I'd not thought about that in years. Isn't the main way that it relieves constipation through muscle relaxing? If so, that may be the right thing for me at the moment, since nothing else has been a bang-up success. I will try upping the amount I take for a few days anyway, and see how things go. The American diet is very magnesium-deficient, and so some extra (especially if I assume that I'm not digesting all that I'm taking in) may be a good thing in general.

    I keep hearing about fish oil and usually take it. I must be deficient in it, because when I don't take it for a while, I get red bumps on my upper arms. I'm not sure what else it does, though. I've never noticed any other effect. My doctor recommended that I make sure to focus on that recently too, though. So I keep taking it. What do you think it does for you?

    Considering that some of the things in Teitelbaum's book/approach undoubtedly do work, taking all of them together would produce a faster effect that taking them one at a time. (One time I went to Straford-upon-Avon and visited the house of Shakespeare's son in law, who was an herbal doctor. Their method at the time was to mix a bunch of herbs that were sort of related to the patient's disease together, in the hope that at least one would work.) I did this one at a time (and then retested most of them by experimenting with going back on or going off) over the past 11 years....my learning has come in bits and pieces (starting back when this book was very short and had very few recommendations). I don't know how many things I would take at once if I were to start from scratch. It's kind of a hard decision.

  6. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    It's fun to think about destroying those darn yeast cells!

    I checked, and I take 600 mg of magnesium. For some reason, minerals have been really helpful for me. Maybe it's just me.

    I take 1500 mg of both fish oil and evening primrose oil. For me, it seems to be important to take both kinds, to cover the bases of Omega 3s and Omega 6s.

    From what I've read, I'm guessing that CFS makes me low on enzymes in general, so my body doesn't do such a great job of converting the EFAs in food into the super long chain forms of EFAs which our bodies actually use to do things.

    So mainly I trust that the two kinds of oils I take are helping my immune system function, helping keep cell walls functioning, and doing all the other jobs the body uses them for.

    It's amazing how good EFAs are for the body. I've read up on them. So I feel really good about taking them.

    They will also definitely keep you regular!

    But what I love is that I don't have to use lip balm or moisturizer, because my skin isn't dry. They make my hair shiny, too. (Now I sound like a dog food commercial! lol)

    I know what you mean about the red bumps. I think they're a form of psosriasis (sp?). I get those, too, if I don't take my EFAs.

    One caution I would mention is to avoid flax seed oil. It's hard on the thyroid. I'm not totally convinced that flax seed oil is a food. Ditto with cottonseed oil.

    Visiting Shakespeare's son-in-law's house sounded cool! I guess back then they did the best they could with what they knew. I'm glad I didn't live then, though!

    My experience has taken me a long time to gather, too. I mean, it's been 16 years and I'm still experimenting with my hormones.

    At least I feel like I've figured out most of the nutritional things that help me.

    I hope you feel better soon. Good luck with the cellulose enzymes, if you try them!


    [This Message was Edited on 10/14/2006]
  7. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Yes, the fish oil seems to make my skin as a whole less dry too. That's a good thing in itself. Also, if in theory the fish oil has other benefits, the fact that it helps my dry skin suggests that I am in need of it even if I'm not noticing other benefits. My doctor highly recommends it and at one point (when I wasn't taking it) remrked that my levels were low. I will continue.

    Someone on the board said that flaxseed oil is very strong whereas plain flaxseed is far less concentrated. A lot of a good thing is not always good. Flax seed does help constipation a bit. I'm inclined to keep taking small amounts of that when convenient (e.g. when making a blender drink).

    Stratford-upon-Avon was fun. Lots of old buildings (we stayed in a hotel from the 1600's....assumedly Shakespeare went to the bar there), good plays. The most fun thing we did in England, actually.
  8. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Your trip to England sounds really nice. I hope I get to go back there some day.

    I was reading the back of the Candidase bottle, and it said "best when taken with Virastop". I was like "Virastop? I think I may need to try that."

    So I got some and I'm going to try it. It says it's enzymes that digest proteins.

  9. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Please report and let me know how this seems to be working for you.

    Also, what exactly was your experience with the Candidase? Did you notice a difference? How long did it take? Did you have die-off? Were you treating the yeast in any other way when you started it?
  10. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi, Lisa!

    I've been taking the Candidase for about a month now, I think. I've been taking 2 or 3 a week, because that is all I can handle.

    They are powerful. Yes, I can feel a difference when I take them. So far, it hasn't miraculously cured my CFS, but it does feel like it's killing something.

    I think yeast is just a side issue for me, not the main cause of why I feel so sick. But it would be good to get it cleared up.

    I AM getting a die-off reaction, even though the bottle says that most people don't. That's typical for me, though.

    It makes me more tired, feverish, etc.

    So, I'm just in the middle of treating my systemic yeast overgrowth. I don't know how long it may take to treat anyone else.

    I suspect I may have to take it indefinitely, at a maintainance level at least.

    The most positive effects of it for me are fresh breath, and I suspect, weight loss will be happening because of it, as Stormyskye noticed.

    When I started taking it, I was already treating the yeast with Caprylic acid. I've been doing that for a long time. I take two capsules a day. So it's not an intense treatment, just a low level kind of nagging at the yeast to go away.

    Now, the Virastop. I want to wait until my hormones are under control before I seriously start trying it, because I prefer to only mess with one thing at a time.

    But I couldn't resist just taking one.

    It had an effect, all right. I took it right before bed, because it's supposed to be taken on an empty stomach. I could feel my pain go away. You know, the constant low-level ache that feels like it's in every cell of the body?

    The effect lasted for a couple hours (at least). After that I fell asleep. It also made me kind of "wired", which kept me from falling asleep, and that is usually one of my Herx symptoms.

    You know what I did first when I was not in pain? I took a deeeeeep breath. It felt so good. I just lay there thinking "Oh my God."

    The next day when I had to do errands, I noticed that I had more stamina.

    I am looking forward to seriously trying this stuff in a few weeks. It could have had a more pronounced effect on me because I was just starting it. Some things seem to work great at first and then fade away. So I can't say for sure if it will ultimately do anything.

    But in my first little experiment, it definitely did something.

    Wouldn't it be great if we could get rid of viruses not by poisoning them with horrible drugs, but by digesting them? I hardly dare to hope, but I am hoping a little bit.

    [This Message was Edited on 10/17/2006]
  11. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Thank you so much for sharing this. I am going to order some of both. I'm planning to take an antiviral drug soon, but getting rid of as much junk as possible without it sseems like a very good idea.

    I will let you know what happens.
  12. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Good luck, Lisa!
  13. bigmama2

    bigmama2 New Member

    thanks Lisa. glad you are seeing improvement!!!!
  14. bigmama2

    bigmama2 New Member

    thanks Lisa. glad you are seeing improvement!!!!

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