Ear/sinus infections causd by FM cause Obsessive compulsive dis

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by david_olenick, Apr 17, 2003.

  1. david_olenick

    david_olenick New Member

    Excessive mucos secretions are released by gene number 17. This leads to FM and often OCD.
    Ear/sinus infections causd by FM cause Obsessive compulsive disorder. Ear infections in childhood , and I had an abundance of em, have been found to cause OCD. I couldn't understand why at about 14 years old I thought something bad would happened to me if I didn't do some idiotic behavior or if I did something "Bad".
    50 yrs. later, I told my Mother, 91, and she said,"You're crazy! that's stupid!" See why I never told her :)
    please keep this in mind if you have OCD or a child with frequent infections. Keep those infections at bay.
    and please don't call a person with OCD crazy. We know that our behaviour doesn't make sense. If you can't understand, ok, we can't either.If they trust you enough to tell you be courteous enough to say,"thanks for telling me that!"
    I hate to mix apples and oranges but all small meaningless items can come together into a full understanding and maybe an effective treatment. I would like to recieve emails from any of you suffering from OCD, anxiety that is relieved after a ritual is performed eg. touching something, making the sign of the cross, whatever.
    Lets have fun with ourselves : )
  2. babyblues68

    babyblues68 New Member

    I have FM, Bipolar, OCD and numerous sinus & respertory problems as a child up till today. Where have you gotten your information from. I would like to read up more on this.

  3. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I am a psychiatric social worker, and keep up with the research pretty well, or so I thought. I would also like to know where you got this info from. I have not seen anything about this.
    The mucus angle is esp. interesting, in light of the controversy over Guaifenesin therapy, which uses a mucus thinning drug to treat Fibro.
    Any info appreciated,

    P.S. I have severe FM and have never in my life had a sinus infection. I had no ear infections as a child, but did have several ear infections secondary to allergies in young adulthood.
    [This Message was Edited on 04/18/2003]
  4. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    My kids used to call it Daddy's Obsessive Repulsive disorder. Our family is shameless in using humor to cope with our problems.

    Love, Mikie
  5. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    ....there are some very good drugs to help with OCD, esp. when it is intrusive to your functioning. Luvox comes to mind right away. CBT also helps, if you can find a qualified therapist near you.
  6. david_olenick

    david_olenick New Member

    I have an incredible baility to remember numbers. of course, when you count all of the time : )
    I won't list all of my diddies but I have abouta many as you do. I like the balance thing. I had a girlfriend with a little 4 yr. old. She adores her mother. She kissed her one time. I said,"No 5 times." Now she always gives her 5 kisses. Actually it makes her mother fel better than just a peck. I know there are many people with disabeling OCD but if not I think making fun out of it can do a lot to help live with it.
    Thanks For sharing your ideas :)
  7. Fibrohoneyt

    Fibrohoneyt New Member

    I am like totally awed by this. Ive had continuous frequent infections since childhood, and i also suffer Bipolar/OCD.
    I't never occured to me that they were related in any way. I'm really good at self-diagnosing, but, i'm pretty sure that this one makes sence..... huh.
    Becky :)
  8. idiotsinc

    idiotsinc New Member

    OCD is actually a form of anxiety, which many believe is the basis of most FMS. It is also a commorbid condition with ADD, which is also a condition associated with FMS. They all seem to involve the way the frontal lobe a filters info. FMS may come about because anxiety leads to sleep problems, which leads to pain because the body doesn't get a chance to heal properly. It also screws up our hormones etc. The part of ear infections comes from this and the fact we tend to be sensitive to our environment; allergies, noise, smells etc.

  9. david_olenick

    david_olenick New Member

    I suddenly remembered the terrible ear and throat infections I had at 5 to 7 yrs. old. They removed my tonsils and then I became morbidly obese and still am.
    I have had infectios, low grade, all of my life but didn't know it until a dentist remarked about my sinus infection. I said,"No, I don't have a infection." he held up the xray and showed me the shadowed area that was causing what I thought was a tooth ache. I have agressively use salt water spray to keep my nose clean. It takes abot 5 to 7 cleanings a day for about 2 weeks. hen you rarely need anything. I smoke too. But after you do, you will wonder why all these over the counter and prescription drugs are being sold instead.
    I had a friend who's wife had a severe reaction to antihistamines. I told him about the salt water this way.
    I said,"You have a as* and you wipe it, you have a mouth and you brush it. why don't we keep our nose clean?"
    Even the nicest people inhale unbelievable stuff everyday.
    Horse, cat, dog, possum, etc. hair. Bird feathers. and other things that are so disgusting that I won't mention em.
    But I think my point is clear.I use 1/2 teaspoon of salt to one cup of water. Don't over do the salt. It will aggravate the problem.
  10. Jaden

    Jaden New Member

    Reading this and all of the posts, has me sitting here with my mouth hanging open!!

    I too suffered many infections as a child. Was in the hospital regularly for bronchitus, I have suffered so many sinus infections I can't count them. I get at least 2-3 a year. I also had many ear infections and had my tonsils out at age 14 as they were rotting!

    Now at age 38, I too have a weird case of OCD. It is not something that is attached to an obession tho. It has stumped a few therapists. It started after loosing my daughter in 1995. I pick...at everything! I have shredded more night shirts and t-shirts then I can count, thread by thread. I pick the skin off my feet, paint off walls, and when I can get at my 15 yr old I am picking his back for black heads!! It is terrible, I can't seem to stop. I have to fight myself daily or I would have no clothes!!

    I was just dx'ed with FM/CF in the past few months, but think I have had it for many years, but is just now getting really bad.

    I would love more info on this connection!!

  11. TNhayley

    TNhayley New Member

    A couple weeks ago I took my 7 yr old son to our family doc about his chronic soiling problem. Near the end of the visit, he casually mention OCD as a possibility. I immediately said no, I didn't think so, beacuse I can't think of anything else about his personality that seems obsessive or compulsive. Maybe I need to think some more. He had chronic ear infections, mild hearing problems, many strep infections.

    Has there been some study about this link, or is this anecdotal? Thanks for posting this. :)
  12. Dara

    Dara New Member

    problems and definitely OCD. I have this thing with numbers. I know, sounds stupid, but if I see a group of numbers, like a phone number on TV, I HAVE to add them up in my head. I have lots of OCD traits, which I have never shared with anyone. Like if I can hurry up and add up the numbers three or four times and come up with the same total nothing bad is going to happen... Sounds crazy, I know that more than anyone.

  13. Stillkicking

    Stillkicking New Member

    Someday the medical establishment is going to wake up and discover that most forms of mental illness are caused by sinus infections that go unrecognized and untreated. There are at least 34 million Americans with chronic sinus infections and many of these people are told they just have allergies.
    Having a chronic sinus infection is like being in hell mentally and physically. It causes so many other problems besides the ENT symptoms. Nauseau, lung problems as well as asthma, heart disease, brain infection, hormone disorders as well as all those FM/CFS symptoms.
    The nose is very complicated. Sometimes there is a easy solution if a infection hasn't lasted too long or become osteomylitis (bone infection). ENT doctors don't have a good cure rate for chronic infection because it takes stronger antibiotics for a long period and many aren't willing to give them. Basically doctors only treat acute infection. 50 percent of these chronic infections are caused by Staphylococcus bacteria. Toxins from staphylococcus can cause muscle problems.
    I wish you best of luck in getting treatment.
  14. AC77

    AC77 New Member

    I heard of this correlation too! I still have a hard time believing it but there is some evidence of childhood infection of the order you are talking about causing this. I have OCD....had it since at least 3rd grade but had very few infections. It is believed, i think in part to cause some type of activation of certain areas of the brain--the infection itself. Sounds wacky....I am tending to think there is truth in it.
    I would really like to know what the deal is with it.
    I know OCD according to my old p-doc affects at least 70% of all his patients, regardless of thier other diagnosis!

    One group was pushing for the aggressive treatment of early child hood strep infections and ear infections because of this correlation. I havent heard this sunject brought up in years!

    I know I had it bad until 21 when I was put on 60mgs of Prozac and it never seemed to return full blast. Although, that experience, coupled with others kinda "blew my brain out"

    It be intresting to see the studies on it.
  15. Madelyn

    Madelyn New Member

    OCD caused by ear infection? Could you point me to some info about this? Mt dh and I both have this mildly but my son is being treated with Zoloft for it, and is depressed because of obsessive thoughts. Other sons show signs too.
    Thanks, Madelyn
  16. TNhayley

    TNhayley New Member

    Where can we find the article you are talking about? Clues, directions, hints ... please??? Who wrote it? Thanks,
  17. goingslowlycrazy

    goingslowlycrazy New Member

    that you can do that adding together and dividing thingy!!! I wouldn't have a hope!
    Seriously though, it must be pretty exhausting feeling that you need to do these things.
    Is there no end to the weird and wonderful symptoms of this DD???
    Mary xx
  18. Meerkat60

    Meerkat60 New Member

    I have had sinus trouble for most of my life and have had FMS for a few years. Over the past ten years or so, I have developed a number of compulsive behaviors usually relating to numbers. For example, when I leave the house I have to turn the doorknob 7 times and exactly 7 times. If I mess up, I have to start over. I have to park in certain parking places like the 5th one in the row or the 7th one in a group. Most of the time it is not bad now but that's probably because my FMS is so bad that I rarely go out without my son and he drives. But there have been times in the past when I would drive around and around looking for a parking place that was okay. Most of the time I just had a vague foreboding that something bad would happen if I didn't do certain behaviors but once in a while I would have specific thoughts like my son would get hurt or die if I didn't do it.

    Probably the most troubling thing to me is that sometimes I can't pick out items at the grocery store. When that happens, I see things wrong with the items I'm picking. When I pick up the item next to it, I see something wrong with that too. In the past I have almost been in tears because of a total inability to make a decision even while I'm saying to myself "just pick one stupid." Fortunately, my son is almost always with me now when I am at the grocery store so I just tell him to pick one and I let it go. But I don't get it because it doesn't happen every time. Sometimes I can go and just throw things in the cart and not notice anything about them. It's strange.

  19. sujay

    sujay New Member

    Can't remember where I read this, but garden variety Strep has recently been shown to be asssociated with OCD in children. And now we treat ulcers with antibiotics. Hmmm...
  20. TNhayley

    TNhayley New Member


    Oct. 10, 2002

    GAINESVILLE, Fla. --- A new University of Florida study may settle once and for all the baffling question of whether common strep infections are linked to obsessive-compulsive disorder or tics in some children.

    Anecdotal reports about a possible link between strep and obsessive-compulsive disorder, or OCD, have prompted many parents to seek unproven treatments for children whose OCD symptoms worsen with streptococcal infections, researchers say.

    Now, scientists at UF and the National Institute of Mental Health, or NIMH, are determined to discover whether these infections in children are truly linked with OCD. The disorder causes youngsters to repeat certain actions, such as hand-washing, in an effort to drive away unwanted thoughts.

    If neuropsychiatric disorders are found to be associated with streptococcal infections, it may mean antibiotics should be given along with traditional psychotropic drugs to treat OCD or tic disorders, said Dr. Wayne K. Goodman, chairman of psychiatry at the UF College of Medicine and UF’s McKnight Brain Institute.

    “If we can sort out children who are at risk, it’s possible some of those kids can undergo more frequent throat cultures (for diagnosis of strep) and receive prophylactic antibiotics that may prevent the chronic, unremitting course of OCD we see in older folks,” Goodman said.

    OCD typically begins in adolescence or early childhood. Approximately 3.3 million adults in the United States between the ages of 18 and 54 have OCD in a given year, according to the NIMH. Researchers believe it is prevalent in 1 percent of children.

    Aided by a $2.7 million NIMH grant, Goodman and Dr. Tanya Murphy, an associate professor of psychiatry at UF, will lead a five-year study designed to test for strep infections in two groups of 60 children who have OCD. Meanwhile, the NIMH will study two groups of children at its headquarters in Bethesda, Md.

    “The main goal of the research is to look for a definitive association of strep with these neuropsychiatric symptoms of OCD to see if strep causes them to get worse,” Murphy said.

    Strep infections are common in school-age children. Depending on the season - strep peaks in December and January - more than one in three children will be infected, said Dr. Sue Swedo, chief of the NIMH’s Pediatrics and Developmental Neuropsychiatry Branch.

    Swedo pioneered the hypothesis that strep-triggered antibodies may attack brain cells in a small percentage of young patients who develop OCD. She called the condition PANDAS, short for Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders Associated with Streptococcus.

    Parents shouldn’t be alarmed if their children get strep throat, but they should make sure their children finish taking prescribed medication, even if sore-throat symptoms disappear, Swedo said.

    In the meantime, researchers warn parents of children with OCD not to try unproven treatments, such as intravenous doses of immunoglobulins or preventive antibiotics.

    “Some primary care doctors put children on antibiotics because parents request it, but I advise against it. There’s little research to prove that what they’re treating exists,” Murphy said. “However, it is not a bad idea if the child presents suddenly with OCD to have the child cultured for strep and, if the culture is positive, then treat with antibiotics.”

    A 10-year-old boy who joined the UF study had experienced frequent infections, which prompted his family to wonder if they were connected to his OCD.

    “We saw articles about strep throat and OCD on the Internet. In the meantime, our son had continual infections,” said the boy’s father, Chris Maxson, a medical manufacturer’s representative in the Tampa area. “When we talked to adults who had OCD, they said their tough times were when they had colds. Suddenly, things started to make sense.

    “Our son became uncontrollable - he couldn’t go to school,” Maxson said. “If he dropped a sandwich, he’d feel horrible because the sandwich didn’t have a chance to be eaten. There was nothing an average parent could do. Now, under the treatment of Dr. Murphy and Dr. Goodman (at Shands at UF), you can’t tell the difference between my son and any other boy his age.”

    Maxson said UF physicians decreased his son’s prescribed dosages of the drugs Prozac and BuSpar and also introduced his son to a therapist who shows him how to recognize his “magical” thoughts.

    “People often look at these illnesses and think, well, that’s just a weak person,” Maxson said. “But that’s not the case.”

    “A connection (between strep and OCD), if proven, will provide a welcome change for children and families who’ve often heard the problem was all in their heads and that they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps,” Swedo said. “It will suggest that kids can’t get better on their own; they need help.”