Elliespad LTryptophan question please keep bumped

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by razorqueen, Jan 9, 2007.

  1. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

    Hi Elliespad,

    From the posts I've read, you seem to be the L-Tryptophan guru. :) I've got a question for you!

    What foods do you take with it when you take yours?

    I plan on trying it again. I tried it 4 yrs ago, but the dr didn't say or didn't know that you need to take B6 with it. I think I was on 1500 mgs. I've done the AD route numerous times and just don't want to go there again. How do you know if your body can convert B6 into its acative form or not? Would it be good just to go straight to the P5P?

    I am on NO ADs and haven't been since August/06. I take Zopiclone, clonazapam, synthroid and Oxy IR. Would it interfer with these meds? I realize you probably won't have the answers to all these questions, but hey, you never know unless you ask!

    Hoping all is well with you!

    Raz
    [This Message was Edited on 01/10/2007]
  2. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

    please keeep bumped
  3. AllWXRider

    AllWXRider New Member

    A bump for Ellispad and my 2 cents:

    Tryptophan is food, so its compatible with most drugs. The american diet is low in tryptophan, so adding it in is a great idea. I now get it from natural sources: Turkey (dogs, sausage, deli & bacon), honey-roasted cashews and bananas. It's in dairy too but I'm allergic to it.

    I'm glad that you're off AD, if you are low in tryptophan and fix the deficiency, then you might get too much serotonin and have symptoms of "Serotonin Syndrome".

    5-HTP is from a seed found in Africa and is already converted one big step towards serotonin. Some ppl can't convert trytophan for an unknown reason. B6 isn't the problem. The B vitamins are synergistic, so they work better is taken together. A natural source is Brewer's Yeast (this is not candida yeast).

    5-HTP helps me a lot and its a cheaper fix than tryptophan.

    If you also have anxiety, GABA and it compliment Theanine help with that. Prohealth makes a blend of all three,
    5-HTP + GABA + Theanine.

    GABA and Theanine are also naturally occuring amino acids.
  4. elliespad

    elliespad Member

    My recommendations on using L-Tryptophan. I am not familiar with the drugs you listed, except the Synthroid, which would NOT be a problem, and not likely the muscle relaxer. The others, I would call a Compounding Pharmacist and ask them. I really would ask. If you decide to try it, Take away from other protein sources, as the OTHER amino acids WILL compete for uptake in the brain, and they USUALLY win. A BIT of a carbohydrate snack will help it into the brain. B-6 IS necessary for the conversion of L-Tryptophan into Serotonin. I don't know how you might know if your body is able to convert B-6 to the active form, P5P. I had a LOT of extensive Amino Acid testing through Great Smokies Diagnostic Laboratories (now Called Genova Diagnostics). (It was NOT a specific test. But, my doctor was able to tell from OTHER levels of things, that it would mean P5P was not being produced).

    L-Tryptophan is a rather expensive supplement. B-6 and P5P are rather cheap, so I would say just take the True B-6 or P5P, with your nightly dose of L-Tryptophan. I take a regular (sublingual)B-Complex in my morning/mid day doses and the P5P at night.

    The only brand I would NOT recommend is Dr. Best. It is crap in my book. Source Naturals just came out with their own brand, but I have no personal experience or opinion of it. Some brands I have used and recommend are: Craig, Bios, Litdke, Nokomis Nutrition own brand. The Store here, just came out with their brand too, but I have no experience with it.

    L-Tryptophan is the amino acid from which your body produces 5-HTP AND Serotonin AND Melatonin AND a vast array of structural proteins, enzymes, AND other essential biochemicals. L-Tryptophan, as such, cannot be replaced by any other amino acid, herb, vitamin, mineral, or man-made chemical. 5-HTP CANNOT provide all these functions.

    The following will tell the difference between L-Tryptophan and 5-HTP. It is a cut and paste from the website of biochemicals. If you went to the actual website, it is arranged in columns, and easier to comprehend.
    ___________________________________________________________

    L-Tryptophan

    a) L-Tryptophan is the amino acid from which your body produces 5-HTP and Serotonin and Melatonin and a vast array of structural proteins, enzymes, and other essential biochemicals. L-Tryptophan, as such, cannot be replaced by any other amino acid, herb, vitamin, mineral, or man-made chemical.

    b) BIOS/Lidtke L-Tryptophan is manufactured by a fermentation process using pure glucose as a substrate. The resulting solution is then separated and purified using highly specific filtration and recrystallation procedures. Purification takes place until the purity is always as close to 100.0% as humanly possible. Often our assays are higher than 100.0% because our L-Tryptophan is more pure than the best reference standards available that are used for testing. This level of purity is unparalleled.

    c) L-Tryptophan is an essential (aromatic) amino acid that must be included in the diet. For this reason, L-Tryptophan is commonly added to baby formulas and to hospital intravenous solutions, where it is clearly essential for growth and survival.

    d) L-Tryptophan has long been used by doctors in the United States and Europe to treat a variety of deficiency symptoms, especially physical and emotional disorders such as those found in Serotonin Deficiency Syndrome (SDS). These symptoms include nervousness, anxiety, sleep disorders, mood disorders, and excessive appetite. According to medical research, L-Tryptophan is the amino acid most commonly deficient in our diet.

    e) When recommending L-Tryptophan as a dietary supplement, medical practitioners typically start low and work up to the ideal dosage. Sixty days may be needed for full benefit when a deficiency exists. Dosage seldom exceeds 500 mg per 50-pounds of body weight.

    f) L-Tryptophan is most effective when taken with little or no protein. Low-protein snacks or beverages are O.K. Certain other amino acids, especially aromatic amino acids and branched-chain amino acids, including Phenylalanine, Tyrosine, Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine may compete with L-Tryptophan for passage through the blood-brain barrier (BBB). Hence, when L-Tryptophan is taken without competing amino acids, more L-Tryptophan passes through to the brain.

    g) The thorough testing of L-Tryptophan should include tests for EBT, total contaminants, including organic volatile impurities (OVI's), pyrogens, and a full microbiological battery.

    5-HTP


    a) 5-HTP is merely a stepping stone in your body's production of Serotonin. First L-Tryptophan converts to 5-HTP, and then 5-HTP converts to Serotonin. 5-HTP converts more quickly to Serotonin than L-Tryptophan, but 5-HTP has far fewer functions in the body than L-Tryptophan and cannot replace L-Tryptophan.

    b) BIOS/Lidtke 5-HTP begins life in the seed pod of a plant, Griffonia simplicifolia, that grows wild in certain regions of western Africa, mostly Ghana and the Ivory Coast. When the Griffonia pods ripen, they are picked wild (wildcrafted) where the plants grow naturally; they are never cultivated. The pods are broken open and three or four seeds the size of lentils are spread on ground coverings out in the Sun to dry. When the seeds are dry, they are inspected for cleanliness and quality and are flown to Switzerland for extraction. The seeds are never subjected to chemical reactions. At their peak, Griffonia seeds yield about 4% pure 5-HTP. As with BIOS/Lidtke L-Tryptophan, testing procedures typically find our 5-HTP to be 100.0%.

    c) 5-HTP is not essential except in rare cases where an individual does not produce a rate-limiting enzyme needed for the production of 5-HTP from L-Tryptophan. This enzyme acts like a faucet that normally controls the production of Serotonin from L-Tryptophan. One possible drawback when you take 5-HTP as a supplement is that it bypasses this rate-limiting step, so your body loses its ability to adjust Serotonin levels as needed. For this reason, caution should be used not to overdose 5-HTP.

    d) Although 5-HTP has been prescribed extensively in Europe to correct some of the same Serotonin deficiency symptoms as L-Tryptophan, such as helping to normalize mood, anxiety, and appetite, 5-HTP cannot correct an L-Tryptophan deficiency. And unlike the essential amino acids, 5-HTP does not typically occur in your diet.

    e) Medical practitioners commonly recommend between 100 mg and 200 mg of 5-HTP per day when correcting Serotonin deficiency symptoms in adults. Results are fairly quick because 5-HTP only does one thing: raise Serotonin levels. It does not correct other L-Tryptophan deficiency symptoms.

    f) Because 5-HTP may cause nausea when taken on an empty stomach, always give 5-HTP with food. By contrast, L-Tryptophan can be given without food.

    g) The thorough testing of 5-HTP should include nearly identical tests as for L-Tryptophan.

    I hope this has helped answer some questions about L-Tryptophan :)





    [This Message was Edited on 01/10/2007]
  5. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

    for the replies.

    I live in Canada, and L-Tryptophan is by perscription. At least thats how I got it the other time. Its actually better for me to get it thru the dr as our pharmacare dectuctable is not too high, and we use alot of meds at our house. So I wouldn't have to pay for it.

    Zopiclone- sleep med, Clonazapam[Klonipin]sp?, Oxy IR-Oxycodone immediate release, also Flexeril.

    I take a B clompex during the day with extra b5 in it. I think I'd go for the P5P right away.

    When I took the L tryptophan before I got nausea if I didn't take it with enough food.
    Raz
    [This Message was Edited on 01/10/2007]
  6. Mwitherite

    Mwitherite New Member

  7. elliespad

    elliespad Member

    Would NOT be a desireable side effect. Hopefully taking the P5P, and a bit of carbohydrate (some fruit, or crackers) will avoid the nausea. I wouldn't try to push past the nausea, if it happens again. That is not a common reaction. And make sure to check out the Rxs you're taking with the Compounding Pharmacist. Good luck.
    [This Message was Edited on 01/10/2007]
  8. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

    as far as I know, there are no compounding pharmacys anywhere near where I live.

    On the site drug.com it says to take it with a low-protein or carbohydrate meal or snack to prevent stomach upset.

  9. elliespad

    elliespad Member

    How about Tache Pharmacy 400 Tache Ave Winnipeg Manitoba Canada :: (204) 233-3469 ?

    I would NOT take L-Tryptophan with other protein sources. The amino acids will compete for uptake, and Tryptophan rarely wins. It is a rather expensive supplement to take, so why not get as much benefit as possible. The carbohydrate will help with Serotonin synthesis. I am not a nighttime snack person, but I eat a few forks of cantaloupe, or wheat thins, just something light.

    L-Tryptophan and Carbohydrates
    L-tryptophan may be found in turkey and other dietary proteins, but it's actually a carbohydrate-rich (as opposed to protein-rich) meal that increases the level of this amino acid in the brain and leads to serotonin synthesis. Carbohydrates stimulate the pancreas to secrete insulin. When this occurs, some amino acids that compete with tryptophan leave the bloodstream and enter muscle cells. This causes an increase in the relative concentration of tryptophan in the bloodstream. Serotonin is synthesized and you feel that familiar sleepy feeling.

    If you call a compounding Pharmacist, they are usually REALLY helpful, will answer any questions.