EMBRACE your HEALTH CARE BILL (and do not keep complaining) !

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Sceptical, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. Sceptical

    Sceptical New Member

    As the only country without universal coverage, I do not understand how can CFS patients not undestand the gravity of this legislation. At a minimum, you guys (as sick individuals) should know it. This is such a fundamental state function which has never been questioned anywhere else. Americans just believe everything. Universal coverage (this bill does not even guarantee that, sadly) has never been even remotely related to socialism never ever in the world. Health care is a rip-off in the USA. It is so funny to hear about "socialized health care" in the USA, a country which does not even have any knowledge on what that means.

    Before entering the USA as a student, I have never heard about the followings:
    -preexisting medical condition
    -meds which would cost more than 5 dollars,
    -hospital visits not for free,
    -childbirth for 40.000,-dollars
    -feeling threatened by higher taxes in a country where taxes has historically been low (becasue of the limited role of the state),

    Have you ever been to Germany, France, England, or even Eastern Europe, etc? Fine health care and lower deficit than that of the USA.

    It dates back to the 19th century with roots in the middle ages. Universal coverage was created to secure a mimimum level of care for every citizen, to cut back cost by spreading them among all the citizens, to have community control over health care services because health care is not a traditional business like selling shoes, etc.

    When I entered the USA, one of my law professor admonished me by pointing out that we all are created equal here in the USA provided that we are white, well educated and healthy. My CFS story demonstrated for me how true it was. You can progress when you do not need help. Americans use the words social responsibility and community values (as opposed to individualism) derisively. This, however, also has the attendant consequences. This reflects an attitude. Americans entertain a rather skewed notion of universal coverage as if it would mean to pay for the slackers only.

    We in Europe pay much higher taxes and never question its validity on the ground that I am healthy and never used health care, thus I do not wish to pay for those who had an accident or got sick and thereby have used my money.

    Life might change. One day you might find yourself in a situation where you cannot rely on your own strenght or savings any more. It is enough to get sick in the USA and your life is changed forever.

    Consequently, I am happy for you guys, honestly happy.

    [This Message was Edited on 03/23/2010]
  2. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    I'm going to start on Medicare in December. My being able to have health care is no more or less important than that of anyone else. I'm extremely happy that we are finally on our way to having health care for everyone. What a wonderful day this is.
  3. victoria

    victoria New Member

    I think everyone will all be standing in line for months ultimately...

    Only those with the money to go outside the system will be able to get timely care ultimately.

    My son with chronic Lyme would've died if he'd had to deal with a 'universal health care' system, as it was the state would not qualify him for MediCaid. It wouldn't have paid for what he needed anyway. We still had to pay out of pocket. (He is now disabled, available medical care is $#%*).

    More and more docs are opting out of MediCare (let's not even talk about how bad MedicAid is!) since the pay schedule is decreasing and hasn't covered their costs in a long time for many things -

    since when are supplies, overheads and salaries of help and cost of living decreasing? Doctors bill you for the difference between what MediCare 'allows' and what the actual cost is because of this, unless you have MediGap insurance.

    One thing I've noticed in recent years in the US is that if you have no 'regular insurance' for coverage of visits, etc., I was often charged 1/2 the 'normal charge' because they didn't have to have someone process the bills and keep track of when/if the insurance companies paid. Insurance involves hiring one or more people just to process the claims.

    They are stealing from SSD as well to finance these things, something that's supposed to be illegal.

    SO, please understand, I am for 'change', but not the way they're doing it.

    Lifting the anti-trust exemption and allowing competition across state lines would be a start, along with not allowing ins. companies to disallow "pre-existing conditions" forever (it happened to me) and such.

    Notice the insurance companies have been very quiet; why? - because they want this, everyone will HAVE to buy from them.

    I just hope the states suing the fed will work and then a better solution can be worked out. There are better ways to 'change' things.

    And this will be all I post about it, as obviously this could get very heated.

    all the best,

    [This Message was Edited on 03/23/2010]
  4. spacee

    spacee Member

    I won't post much because I am so upset over comparing our healthcare to the other countries.

    My two sons have lived in Germany, UK and the Netherlands.

    Extremely bad experiences.

    We have drugstores/walmart/grocery stores that offer very cheap rxs. Like no charge for ABX and generics for $9 for 3 months.

    Also by the time one pays their monthly healthy care premium and co pays...they aren't going
    to be able to afford health care anyway.

    I know this because we are paying for two grown kids health insurance/copays, etc.
    And if one of us gets cancer....the costs would bankrupt us. So, basically, we have
    little coverage for cancer.

    And Obama is going to tax us to help pay for the insurance costs. We are getting it coming and going. DH will never retire.

    Did something need to be done to the US....Heck Yes.

    But please don't compare us to those countries. Please.

  5. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    I am absolutely for changing somethign and for everyone being able to get coverage, but this plan is not going to be the answer

    ....basically what it is going amt to is that the people who most need coverage bc they are in poor health and also as a result do not have much money, are going to get screwed.....medicare and medicaid pay so poorly most docs already will not take them, so people on those plans in essence have no insurance....people on medicare are going to be forced into paying for this worthless coverage, and now with the new plan, more money is being taken from medicare (which is already almost totally broke) so the plan is going to pay even less to docs, so it is going to be impossible to find anyone who will accept the coverage

    so how exactly is being forced into paying for coverage that no one will accept going to improve things? basically it means people will still have no coverage (worthless coverage is no coverage), but now they have to pay for it, too
  6. aftermath

    aftermath New Member

    Agreed with Aunt Tammie that this is NOT the answer.

    It's going to bankrupt the private insurance companies, because they are going to be forced to offer coverage to those with serious pre-existing conditions at the same rates as healthy people.

    Basically, what it allows people to do is go without health insurance until they get sick by simply paying the fines (they amount to next to nothing). Then, once illness comes along, people can simply sign up for insurance.

    With no one paying into the system until they actually get sick and need to draw upon it, the companies go bankrupt, leaving the government to come in with its own plan in the chaos.

    While he may not admit it now, Barry stated very publicly in 2003 that a single-payer system was his ultimate goal (check YouTube for the video).

    Single payer means that EVERYONE gets the same treatment--it is illegal to pay someone for it on your own. Like Great Britain--and we all know how well PWCs are treated over there.

    A workable solution needs to get control of the out-of-control costs in the current US system. Although doctor salaries have fallen tremendously in the past ten years, treatment costs are out of control. The socialists' plan does nothing to address costs--nothing at all.

  7. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    That's rich,Fox news fearmongering what do you call the c*** being spued by Rhandi Rhoades,Ed Schultz!?!never ever heard of a more ignorant,angry bunch,talk about ginning up hatred!Whew!!!
    [This Message was Edited on 03/23/2010]
  8. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 New Member

    You are exactly right. The health care bill violates basic laws of economics. It is destined to be a disaster, and then the government will march in to make another huge power grab while looking like saviors in the process. Government creates problem, government offers a solution of more government power, rinse, and repeat.
  9. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    Yep,it's a part of the grand plan...drive insurance out so we the people can be even more under the thumb of big government. Freedom isn't free and neither are entitlements...there will be a price to pay,and it won't be pleasant.Again,can't say we weren't warned,This pres. promised he'sd fundementally change America as we know it. Boy,he wasn't kidding! By the way,for those of you who think goingthe way of Europe is a good thing,hmmm, isn't that why our forefathers came here to begin with,cuz they didn't like the way thing were "Across the pond"? I'm really sad for our children and grandbabies~~~Jeanne
  10. wendysj

    wendysj New Member

    Hi Adam,

    If I remember correctly, pre-existing conditions are applied to people who had a 61 day lapse in medical insurance. I have diabetes. I know that I must have medical insurance, so it is my responsibility to make sure I don't allow that 61 days lapse.

    I do not think the government is good at running welfare, medicare, etc. Why do people believe this new government health care will be any better?

  11. springwater

    springwater Well-Known Member

    this bill benefit as opposed to how many will it affect adversely?

    health care should be available for everybody irrespective of their position in society.

    God Bless
  12. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    A friend who has been a teacher/principal for 30 years in a private school that closed down, now does not have insurance because of preexisting conditions. She has severe back problems, diabetes, high blood pressure as well as a myriad of other health problems.

    She gave to a community that was very poor and unfortunately because it was poor she did not get the same benefits as a corporate executive.

    She just sent me this email.


    I don't think anyone is saying this bill is perfect. It still needs work.

    Come on people, 1984 has come and gone. Stop with the conspiracies.


    ETA Thanks, Adam!![This Message was Edited on 03/23/2010]
  13. quanked

    quanked Member

    I regret to hear that you are happy for us. This health care reform is not going to benefit many if any--that is if it ever goes into effect (except those in the medical insurance field, drug companies and in medical provider services).

    I have been for universal health care as long as I have known of such a concept. There will always be the slackers--always. But I do not believe that we should deny anyone access to free, quality health care because they are slackers or because a slacker may be getting a "free ride".

    If we need to pay higher taxes then so be it. On the other hand the USA spends our taxes on programs that many of us do not want to fund or would prefer funded at much lower rates. So much for rule by the people and for the people : )

    I have no problem with the word socialism or the concept of it. When I learned what socialism and communism are supposed to be about I thought I could get behind this kind of organizing.

    Eventually I learned that the USA promoted an odd comparison abroad about democracy vs. communism. It was an inept and inappropriate comparison. Why would a comparison between communism (an economic structure) and democracy (a political system) be made I wondered.

    Eventually I realized that the vs. should have been between communism and capitalism (both economic ideological structures). If the appropriate comparison had been made who knows what might have happened.

    To me, capitalism (as it is practiced in the USA) is an extremely destructive force. It is what is bringing down this nation. It is our number one export--exported most expeditiously by that famous 1%. They cannot wait to exploit the rest of this globe. This nation has been used up and fresh frontiers await in China and other developing nations. I do not see a nation well on its way to third world status worthy of serious health care reform (at least not in the eyes of that 1%).

    You live in a European country? In Europe do corporations enjoy all of the rights that a human in your country does? In the USA corporations enjoy a personhood status as if it were a human being. It is this personhood of corporations that allows this one percent to do anything in the name of capitalism—anything.

    Some here post that they do not see their rights being eroded. I say to them that they are not looking deep enough and they need to seek out information from primary sources and try NOT to buy into mainstream media so easily. Question, question, question. Who is providing them with information and who is paying for the information’s dissemination?

    And we do have some socialized medicine (Medicare) for some and social security is certainly a program that is influenced by socialist thought. Of course, most people on these programs do not realize what kind of thinking influenced their creation.

    I am not happy with the health care reform. No impact studies happened in this fiasco. Kind of reminds me of when Clinton signed NAFTA. The fall out on this free trade act will go on for decades and will only make that 1% richer along with the attorneys. I bet litigation attorneys are already licking their chops in anticipation of the legal suits to come from this so called "health reform".

    I had a taste of universal health care in the UK. It was mind blowing, exhilarating and a wonderful experience. My husband and I were visiting the UK several years ago with our granddaughter. She developed a urinary tract infection while driving to Scotland. We ended up at hospital somewhere in the UK. She was treated very well. They provided a medication. When we were preparing to leave I went to the desk to pay. This hospital had no way to accept payment! I said we are from the USA; we are not part of your health care system. I was told that there was no charge even to USAIANS. I could not believe it! What an experience. It still awes me. We had taken our granddaughter in to the local hospital for the same thing a month earlier and the charges were near $1,000.

    Our health insurance is through my husband’s employment through a union. When his health insurance bank is depleted we have to make self payments. They are about $1,000.00 a month. Let me just say that when one is unemployed the last thing that is needed is an over-inflated insurance payment. I could go on about how inadequate the insurance is but I will not. We could use some health reform at our house too. This plan is not it and I will bet that it isn’t going to be for many others.

    And for a person with CFIDS and FM this is plan offers no hope.
  14. shari1677

    shari1677 New Member

    Forgive my ignorance here - I've never been super smart when it comes to politics.

    My take is - GREED. That's it, plain and simple.

    I remember growing up, my mother didnt work. My father had FREE healthcare for the whole family; he didnt have to pay ONE DIME towards premiums. Small copays. Fast forward 40 years - no company offers FREE healthcare benefits for the employee, let alone the whole family. Then there are the high copays and deductibles on top of it!

    No wonder I am poorer than my parents!
    [This Message was Edited on 03/24/2010]
  15. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    Sadly,our kids and grandkids will be even poorer.....
  16. Sceptical

    Sceptical New Member

    Guys, you fare much better if I am telling you the truth and do not have to watch foreign channels to hear it. Before doing that let's get something straight. I like the USA and have friends from the law school. However, during my legal studies (3 years) I had to realize that the American have some kind of distorted mirror which reflects what they think and not how they look like.

    I further think that biggest enemy of the USA is not Iraq or Iran but that person (or president) who created the notion of Ameican dream, a world which has never ever existed.

    -Americans are extremely uninformed. They keep saying the they are unique and therefore every rule which works outside their borders stops working in the USA. Yes, the USA is unique bc citizens are uniquely uninformed. I learned at law school that you had a unique constitution which enshrined unique rights. In fact, those principles were created during the French revolution or even earlier by the Roman Empire. Those fundamental principles are part of every constitutional scheme even in socialist countries.

    This is a further lie that the USA is the country of freedom. American policemen enjoy rights which are simply unprecedented. Unfortunately, this does not reflect in crime statistics. Your federal Supreme Court also seizes every opportunity to curtail human rights due to the 5-4 conservative majority. You can almost never survive a motion to dismiss in an excessive force case (police misconduct like loosened teeth, bruises after police questioning which according to the court "might only be a preexisting medical condition"), under the 1983 Civil Rights Act (you cannot sue the state due to sovereign immunity, do not have private cause of action, etc.), etc. I studied at UGA, Georgia where "Negros" were routinely denied admission, could not use highways or public parks some 30 years ago. On one occasion, when the Supreme Court held against the State of Georgia, it conveyed its public park to a private individual to avoid compliance with the Constitution. Moreover, a recent Court decision distinguished females and pregnant women and held that pregnant women were NOT PROTECTED by statutes aimed to uproot gender discrimination because the two categories did not overlap. Congratulation on that ! Justice Ginsburg aptly remarked that this kind of restrictive interpretation of law was beyond imagination. She added: "if you can think of 2 things which are inseparably related to each other without thinking of the other thing, then you have a (American) legal mind."

    Justice O'Connor wrote in her memoirs that her father who was greatly helped by New Deal but had hated the president bc New Deal had represented an invasion into his privacy. This is the very type of thinking which distinguishes you from everyone else. You zealously stick with your right to use your distorted mirror. You keep 2.000.000 individuals in prison, impose extremely harsh sentences but your criminal statistics are much worse than those in Europe. We have immigrants as well you cannot blame it on them. You stick with your right to have handguns but do not support extensive state involvement like providing 1-3 years paid maternity leave for mothers and fathers to properly raise children. The nanny raises your child and you call for harsch punishment and brutal police policies to restrain "those criminals". This is called hypocracy.

    The upshot is that the American feel so antithetical to social rights and community values that they are not even able to understand that this kind of selfish individualism runs counter to their own interests. Not having universal coverage does not mean freedom from restraint, that means the highest level of disrespect for other members of your society reflecting also a firm but unfounded belief that you (unlike those slackers) will never need any assistance in life. Especially you guys who suffer from a debilitating medical condition should know that. In addition to belonging to a big family (Americans) this is the only sound financial resolution of health care. Health care industry will never ever be in the same bargaining position as you. Have you ever looked at the invoice of your health care provider?

    Thus, I am happy for you and hope that your Supreme Court will not create any new ideas to stifle this effort which is a far cry from universal coverage which as I said is well established everywhere just like your right to have handguns. I would not be proud of prefering the latter.

    I respectfully dissent.

    [This Message was Edited on 03/24/2010]
    [This Message was Edited on 03/24/2010]
  17. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    such a blatant display of partiasnship. When Nancy Pelosi became the speaker she promised to be tranparent,reach acrosas the aisle,etc.... The republicans were shut out of this whole process,back door secret meetings...the dems wouldn't even consider tort reform and opening of buying across state lines. Why?,because Obama,Nancy et all are laywers,in the back pocket of the law assc. Also,last fall,as the constiuancy learned more about this bill,support for it plummeted. As recently as Sun., Obama,speaking to those "blue dog dems,who were on the fence stated"Don't do this for me,don't do it for the party,do it for your constiuancy,the american people,they deserve this" Yet over 56% voiced their dislike of this bill. They shoved it through anyway...it's all about bigger gov't ,more control. Also, the have tacked the college loan issue onto this bill. Obama doesn't think priviate businness has the right to be supplying loans to college students. So,now that's nationalized too! Why?,bacause the difference between what the gov't pays for the $$$ and what the gov't will charge the students will be subsidizing the health care bill! What's next? I really don't see how anyone can be happy about what's going on~~~Jeanne
  18. Sceptical

    Sceptical New Member

    You cannot accuse me of partisanship. I am European. Here (and everywhere else) even extreme right wing shares my views.

  19. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    Re read my post I don't believe I said anything about you! I was referring to the pres.,nancy pelosi,harriy reid, the whole bunch responsible for this trasvesty.....Jeanne
  20. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    In response to your statement re spitting on politicians...those most likely were "plants" meant to shed a bad light on those protesting this bill. The very same thing happened @ a Palin event last year,wen someone got out of hand,later addmitted to being a plant! As far as your comments re liberal radio hosts...to each his own~~~Jeanne

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