Famvir Status Report Week Three

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Slayadragon, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Sunday, November 26
    Famvir--Day 20

    Days 1-6: 250 mg
    Days 7-13: 500 mg
    Day 14: No Drug
    Day 15-20: 500 mg

    This actually is almost the beginning of my fourth week on Famvir, but I didn't start posting until I increased the dosage to 500 mg.

    I still seem to be at the same plateau and thus am guessing I'm still herxing.

    I'm still in low-energy mode (about a 5 on that scale) and without motivation to do anything. Usually I am a 6-7 even when moderately active.

    Considering that I have done nothing but rest for the past week (I haven't left the house and have felt no particular desire to do so), I would expect to normally be feeling very good as well as stir-crazy at this point. The fact that I am not suggests that the drug is still having a herxing effect.

    I have been feeling slightly feverish again (but with no actual fever) and have had a very slight headache all day.

    i have been taking the whole 500 mg at night. Last night I took some melatonin to try to get back on a regular sleep schedule. I slept for about 8 hours straight, which was better than I had been doing. I also took a short nap. (Naps are unusual for me.)

    My appetite was up a little bit. My mood is fine.

    I have continued to take ImmunePro Rx every day in order to try to help my liver.

    Since my doctor gave me only a month's supply of Famvir, I am going to call his office tomorrow and try to find out what he thinks I should do next.
  2. dahopper

    dahopper New Member

    Thank You for posting a update. I hope you get to feeling better soon. Take care, Love Debbie
  3. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi, Lisa!

    I'm glad to hear how you're doing!

    I get the feeling that maybe you should try the Famvir a while longer, since it seems to be doing something. I wonder what your doctor will say.

    We have to start so slowly that one month hardly seems like any time at all to try an anti-viral.

    I hope you've killed off lots of viruses this week!

  4. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    There are really two steps to the process when one starts killing off pathogens or taking drugs which cause dieoff. First comes the immune reaction. This is when one feels extreme fatigue, body aches and pains, headaches, swollen lymph nodes, and fluish. This usually happens because when pathogens are disturbed, they get active. The immune system which has been ignoring them will often perk up and go after them. Just as when we have the flu or a cold, our bodies can produce fever and we can feel sick. This part can go on for quite some time.

    During this period, pathogens can be dying off. If our bodies can excrete the dead critters, we will not Herx. Herxing is a purging action which can involve profuse sweating, nausea, and/or diarrhea from hell. Our bodies will Herx/purge when they cannot handle the volume of dead pathogens following a big dieoff. The dead pathogens release toxins which alert out bodies to purge.

    There is no set time nor severity of these two reactions. It differs from person to person and may depend on which drugs are used, which pathogens are dying off, the extent of the dieoff, how long we have been infected, etc.

    It is rare to have a big dieoff cause a toxic-shock-like condition but it happens and it's dangerous. If Herxing is intolerable, one should discuss with one's doc the possibility of slowing things down.

    Pathogens replicate inside our cells and have a cycle where they kill the host cell or escape from the cell when replication is complete. They are vulnerable in the bloodstream. That is when the big dieoffs occur. This is also why we will notice Herxing in cycles. It can take a long time to get chronic infections under control.

    I hope this helps to understand why we feel like we do. I wish I could say this step will last this long and that step will last that long. No one can. We each have to adjust our drugs until we can tolerate the effects and still be addressing the infections. Each of us needs our own tailored regimen. After one has been doing this as long as I have, it is easier to recognize what is happening.

    Love, Mikie
  5. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Your last post here was very interesting. Thanks.
  6. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Monday, November 27
    Famvir--Day 21

    Days 1-6: 250 mg
    Days 7-13: 500 mg
    Day 14: No Drug
    Day 15-20: 500 mg
    Day 21: No Drug

    I talked to my doctor's office today. I described my Famvir experience thus far to the assistant MD, who said that a mild herx such as the one I described is to be expected at three weeks. He commented that Famvir is a good drug (they have been using it for a whole year). After consultation with the main doctor, he called me back and said he was phoning in another month's prescription.

    I will be visiting my doctor shortly before that next month is up. We will decide what to do next then.

    I think I'm still making progress, little by little. I'm still feeling feverish (without a fever). However, I'm starting to really want to do things and to be frustrated that I don't feel ready to do them. I also feel hungry but at the same time not sure that I want a big meal.

    This sounds kind of weird, but it's kind of how I have felt in the past at the end of having a flu (back when I had flus). And so maybe this is progress.

    After some consideration, I have decided not to take any Famvir tonight. There are some things I need to get done. Hopefully (as was the case a week ago) I will stop herxing quickly and be able to get a lot done after just being off the medicine for one day.

    It will be interesting to see how well I feel. If I do feel well, perhaps that will mean that the medicine actually has helped me and that (once I get to the end of the road with the herxing), I will continue to feel better.

    Of course, some people say that antivirals stop working after a while. I am eager to hear my doctor's comments on the long-term strategy he uses. Meanwhile, I am trying not to think about it too much.
  7. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Famvir is a good drug. It's one of the newer ones and doesn't have some of the side effects of earlier AV's. I took it off and on for about 1 1/2 years with no problems.

    My ins. now doesn't cover it so when I need an AV, I take Acyclovir. It's a good drug too but it leaves me feeling sick.

    Love, Mikie
  8. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Tuesday, November 28
    Famvir--Day 22

    Days 1-6: 250 mg
    Days 7-13: 500 mg
    Day 14: No Drug
    Day 15-20: 500 mg
    Day 21-22: No Drug

    I read today in the Merck Manual at the drugstore that antiviral drugs had been tried without success for CFS. I don't know where they got that from. Has formal testing been done? All of their other info about CFS was pretty wrong too, but the antiviral remark really bothers me. (This was the 2004 edition, I think.)

    I have not taken any Famvir since Sunday night. Today I felt pretty much fine, like I felt on an average day before I started taking the drug. My usual 6 to 7. I went out for a while, got a few things done here. I could have pushed myself to do more, but there was no need.

    I am glad that I can get back to "normal" so quickly. Apparently my body is doing pretty well at discarding the "dead bodies," which is nice to know. I have been taking ImmunoPro Rx (4 scoops total) every day, which may be helping my liver. (It feels intuitively like a very good thing to be doing.) I'm also very glad I did a thorough yeast cleanse before I started, since I would imagine that let my immune system focus more on getting rid of viruses.

    I think I may still be herxing a bit. I don't know that, but it feels like it. We will see. I have decided to go easy on the drug this week, since there are some things I need to get done. Starting next week, I will have basically the rest of December to do nothing but kill viruses, if that turns out to be necessary. I tend to think the herxing will fade away before that though. Just a guess, though.

    Knowing that I can stop the herxing whenever I want, within a day, is tremendously reassuring.

    I don't know if skipping a few days (or going down to a half dose) will set me back a lot with regard to the core task of virus killing. I actually think that maybe giving my body a little time to regroup could be a good thing in terms of letting it get all the dead stuff out (since maybe then it will have more energy to help out with the live ones). At any rate, I doubt it will set me back a terribly lot.

    I am starting to think that going with my gut instinct (as well as taking into consideration my obligations) with regard how much of the drug to use on a particular day is the right strategy. The doctor was fine with my having stopped it and then started it again on my own when I felt sick. Granted, I've been seeing him for 8 years and he is aware that I know my body from both an intellectual and an intuitive point of view extremely well. Perhaps this would not be the right strategy for others, but it certainly seems like the right one for me.

    I know from my time working to fix my manic-depression that there are some drugs that just click with my body and some that are just plain wrong for it, no matter what other people's experiences are. I'm starting to like this drug, I think.
  9. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    I'm glad your gut instinct tells you that Famvir is working. Sometimes that is all we have to go on. You have to believe that this is your answer. You may have to stay on the Famvir for a year.

    Did you notice that the Ampligen trials are open? See the news bulletin when you first log into immunesupport.

    I think I may be coming down with a cold, and I've upped my aresenal of supplements. I spent an anxious sleepless night worrying about another relapse within a relapse. Bad stuff.

    I'm operating about on a level 4 out of 10.

    Keep sharing. I've learned just as much or more from this board than I have from any doctor.


  10. spacee

    spacee Member

    Thanks for the update. I am printing it off to show my doc.

    That is pretty sad that the Merck Manual says that AV's are not useful in CFS. A 2004 edition at that.

    I really like the way Mikie explains the immune response/herx. I have followed her posting on that for several years and it never sticks in my brain as well as she says it.

    As I have posted on other threads, I am still experiencing a strong reaction to Olive Leaf Extract. I am shocked really. I had to stop taking it over Thanksgiving I was so sick from it but now I want to do some killing before the next holidays so I am on it.

    You are doing great! Thanks again.

  11. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi, Lisa!

    It's great to hear that you are feeling in control and happy with how things are going. I feel very encouraged for you!

    One thing about CFS is that we sure get to know our bodies well.

    Wow, Spacee! A strong reaction to Olive Leaf Extract? I am going to have to go find your other threads.

  12. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Wednesday, November 29
    Famvir--Day 23

    Days 1-6: 250 mg
    Days 7-13: 500 mg
    Day 14: No Drug
    Day 15-20: 500 mg
    Day 21-22: No Drug
    Day 23: 500 mg

    I spent the day feeling tired and vaguely depressed. The depressed part is fairly unusual for me. Maybe the reason for it will become clearer in time.

    I didn't get enough sleep last night. Maybe six hours. I am going to make sure that doesn't happen tonight.

    My stomach felt a little sick today and I had a some diarrhea. My husband just got over a mild stomach flu (he started about three or four days ago) with those same symptoms.

    At first I paid no attention to the relation between those two facts, because I don't "get" colds or flus. (Only one in the past 11 years, other than the first one when I got sick.) My first thought was that my digestive system was off (I've been doing a gentle cleansing program) or that these were still more herx symptoms.

    Now I'm wondering if I'm getting (even a little bit) what he had.

    Now, a normal person would say, oh, you've been weak from the medicine, and so of course you're more likely to get sick. Other things that have weakened my system have never caused me to "get sick" before, though.

    Could this be _progress_???? People here have repeatedly commented that sometimes when CFS patients improve in general, they get more colds and flus. I don't understand the mechanism (although I've made some guesses.), but my body certainly does not act much like other people's in general.

    I'm not even sure that these are flu symptoms, though. We shall see.

    I've found myself craving EmergenC today (the flavored packets that are dissolved in water). I assume that means my body wants vitamin C.

    I do not think my vitamin C consumption is leading to stomach/digestive problems. Those problems came first. Plus, I've not had this response to EmergenC in this dosages---I always take 6,000 mg, today I took about 10,000 mg---before.)

    If my body does want more Vitamin C, I don't know if it's related to the viral killing, the purported stomach flu, or something else.

    All in all, I've felt pretty muddled today about what my body is doing. Far more muddled than usual.

    Overall I was at maybe a 5+ today.

    I'm going to take a full dose of the Famvir and go to bed now.

    P.S. Another post just reminded me that when I was talking the my doctor when he prescribed the Famvir, he said that maybe it would work so well I wouldn't need Klonopin to get deep sleep any more.

    He knows I've been taking Klonopin for years and that it has been extremely helpful for me (he's got the memory of an elephant), and so upon reflection I'm kind of amazed at that statement.

    I've not known him to make statements like that in the past when they didn't turn out to be accurate for me. And he's had a lot of experience with Famvir.

    Apparently he really believes this stuff is effective. I trudge onward.
    [This Message was Edited on 11/30/2006]
  13. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    The Merck Manual is supposed to be the "Bible of Western Medicine." It has been used by health care professionals for over a century but it contains many medical myths and inaccuracies. It needs to be updated, IMHO. Consider the following information and it's no wonder doctors make the most idiotic comments.

    Because of chronic illness, (I have CF, FM, IC, IBS), sarcoidosis, a long history of endometriosis, a history of hypertension, migraines, costochondritis, and asthma). I know all to well the feeling of being betrayed by my body on a daily basis. Fear of the unknown with any illness is a very big hurdle to jump.

    Since knowledge equals power, one of my coping mechanisms over the years has been to research my medical challenges. I started doing this in 1990, when I was diagnosed with endometriosis. It was falsely known as "the career woman's disease." This myth started because working women had health insurance and access to medical care and were pushing for a diagnosis.

    I thought this misnomer was the silliest thing I ever heard because I had my first symptoms of endometriosis at age 11 and I was not alone. In a patient survey 59% of women with the disease had symptoms by age 24. How could any of us possibly be "career women" at age 11? This myth is still persistent in spite of the fact that endometriosis has been linked to dioxin exposure.

    The Merck Manual endometriosis section says "The reported incidence varies, but endometriosis is commonly found in 10 to 15% of women between the ages of 25 and 44 yr who are actively menstruating."

    The Merck Manual says "Hypertension occurs more often in black adults (32%) than in white (23%) or Mexican American (23%) adults, and morbidity and mortality are greater in blacks." I made a trip to the ER at age 45 for the nonstop thumping in my head with a blood pressure reading of 170/120. I don't fit the typical profile for hypertension.

    According to the Merck Manual, "Sarcoidosis occurs mainly in persons aged 20 to 40 yr and is most common in Northern Europeans and American blacks. The lifetime risk of developing sarcoidosis is particularly high among Swedish men (1.15%), Swedish women (1.6%), and American blacks (2.4%)."

    I was 43 when this was diagnosed and spent 3 weeks in the hospital. The doctors kept saying it was TB because sarcoidosis is a black person's disease. I'm a green eyed blonde and white.

    The Merck Manual says "About 24 million Americans have migraines. Migraines may occur at any age but usually begin between ages 10 and 40, more often in women than in men. Headaches often partially or completely remit after age 50. More than 50% of patients have a family history of migraine."

    I remember staying home from school in second grade with a migraine. As a kid, I crawled from my bedroom to the bathroom to vomit. Do I believe my migraines will stop after age 50? Of course NOT!

    The Merck Manual says "Asthma is particularly common in blacks living in urban environments (affecting about 7%) and even more so in Hispanic populations living in urban environments (affecting about 11%)."

    As a medical consumer, I can't help but feel that modern medicine is Frankenstein-like at best. One must wonder how so many of us have succeeded in getting a diagnosis when our ages, races and gender don't match up to what the medical manuals say or what they teach doctors in medical school.

    Here's what the Merck Manual says about FM:

    "Symptoms, Signs, and Diagnosis: Stiffness and pain in fibromyalgia frequently begin gradually, diffusely, and with an achy quality. Symptoms can be exacerbated by environmental or emotional stress, poor sleep, trauma, exposure to dampness or cold, or by a physician who gives the patient the incorrect message that it is “all in the head.” Patients tend to be stressed, tense, anxious, fatigued, striving, and sometimes depressed. Many patients also have irritable bowel symptoms or tension headaches."

    Finish last in your league and they call you idiot.  Finish last in medical school and they call you doctor.  ~Abe Lemons
  14. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    i find i am sleeping more heavily on transfer factor. It's a knock-out.

    Also, the immune susceptibility (catching colds etc...) is probably related to TH1 and TH2 shifting.

    You might want to consult the library on this.

  15. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Keep trudging onward! Don't give up!

    I know this process is really, really hard and demoralizing.

    That would be great if you didn't need the Klonipin any more!

    I agree that sometimes it's hard to get enough quantity of sleep, in spite of the best intentions.

  16. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    Hmmmm. I think you did catch a stomach bug from your hubby. The depression is because you are sicker than usual. Once that bug leaves, your depression will lift.

    What Forebearance said about the TH1 and TH2 shifting is very interesting. Something is going on with you. Your body is changing.

    Keep at it girl. And don't forget the ProBoost. You'll need it even more now since you are susceptible to the run of the mill viruses now.

    Good luck!

  17. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Thursday, November 30
    Famvir--Day 24

    Days 1-6: 250 mg
    Days 7-13: 500 mg
    Day 14: No Drug
    Day 15-20: 500 mg
    Day 21-22: No Drug
    Day 23-24: 500 mg

    I had a good bit more diarrhea just before I took the Famvir last night. I'm glad it wasn't afterwards, because I wouldn't want the drug not to be absorbed.

    I'm not paying much for Famvir through my insurance's co-payment at the moment, but it could be one of those drugs that they cut off after a certain number of days or pills are prescribed. (It's good that it's used for AIDS patients in that regard, although it's possible that they might require proof of AIDS or something at some point.) Even if that happened, I think I could solve the problem at least to some extent by switching to another anti-viral, though.

    There certainly is no reason to waste this expensive drug, though.

    I woke up about halfway through the night feeling that my throat was getting scratchy and a bit sore. Another symptom of my husband's stomach flu was that he had laryngitis for a day or two. (A friend who I hadn't seen for about a week had the exact same symptoms, and so apparently this flu is going around.)

    A friend of mine once told me that his Hungarian grandmother insisted that anyone in the family who was getting sick drink at least one cup of what he now calls Grandma Millie's Brew. It consists of a cup of tea with a few tablespoons of bourbon and a few teaspoons of honey.

    After some reflection, this started to seem to me like it might have some true efficacy. It's my understanding that alcohol and honey both are effective at killing viruses, and putting them in tea means that you sip it slowly (therefore dousing the throat---where germs especially collect toward the beginning of an illness---slowly with stuff that kills them). It tastes pretty good too, so there's no incentive to gulp it down.

    This is not self-treatment, because I brought it up to an MD at one point. He said that the hypothesis sounded at least plausible, and that in any case it didn't seem that a small amount of alcohol would harm me even in combination with the low dose of Klonopin that I took to sleep at night.

    So I had a cup of Aunt Millie's Brew and some ProBoost, and went back to sleep. Probably I slept about 10 hours total.

    By the time I woke up, I felt pretty much perfectly "fine," insofar as I had been accustomed to feeling on an average day before I started the Famvir. This is despite the fact that I took a full dose of Famvir last night.

    Today I went out for a while, got a few things done. I'd say I was about a 6. The depression totally has gone away, and so have the purported stomach flu symptoms.

    I think this is the first day since I've been on Famvir (except for the first few days at a half dose) that I haven't had the feeling of having a fever. I'm taking that as a positive sign, insofar as it lasts.

    I think my sleep has been more erratic on the Famvir, even since I have started taking it all at night. This is not listed as a common side effect of the drug, however.

    The best sleep I have had on it was when I took melatonin in combination with my usual Klonopin (even though I have never found melatonin to be helpful in the past except for fixing jet lag). Perhaps my circadian rhythms are still messed up from when I was taking some Famvir during the day and then napping. I am going to take melatonin again tonight and see if it helps.

    The idea of the Th1/Th2 shift is interesting, considering that the other things I did to try to shift in the past (a whole year of kutapressin and most of the other things Cheney recommended) did not help me at all. It's a nice thought if it is shifting. Not having more than 20 food allergies would make my life a bit easier, just for starters.

    I think that it's not a bad idea to give my body a day or two of rest from the drug on occasion, while I'm still herxing anyway. It feels like maybe if I can get my immune system to clear out the dead bugs (I assume that's what's happening), it's more effective in helping the anti-viral with its work when I go back on it.

    i am happy that i had a reasonably good day even though I took the Famvir last night. I will see how many days I can go before I start to feel bad again.

    I chose our health insurance plan for next year last night. It was their most expensive PPO plan, with lower co-pays. (I'm going to make an effort to see my doctor more often now that I'm going the drug route.) The cost is about $4,000 a year for my husband and me.

    The drug plan is a co-pay covering all drugs in various amounts, although a few (Provigil is the only one I've encountered thus far) need doctors to fill out a form. There is no limit on the amount of money they will pay for drugs, and once I reach $1500 in co-pays, the rest of the drugs I'm prescribed (as long as they qualify) have no co-pays at all no matter how high the total goes.

    This seems to me a pretty good plan for my anticipated needs, although I have no real comparison point. Up until now I have not run up a huge amount of medical costs per year (for my plan or for me), but if I continue on this fight-the-viruses path that could change considerably.

    Thanks to all who are monitoring my posts! Writing them each day is useful to me with regards to forcing me to closely monitor my own progress, and I'm certainly glad that other people are finding them interesting as well. And thanks to all for your much appreciated support and encouragement (especially through the harder moments but in general too)!!!

    I am going to take a full dose of Famvir and go to bed now.
  18. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I'm so glad to hear that you felt decent and not feverish this time!

    I had some insomnia when I first began taking the Virastop, I remember. Perhaps there is something about fighting viruses that disturbs sleep patterns.

    I noticed in Dr. Cheney's DVD lecture that he uses Immunovir and Nexavir now for his patients. Immunovir was what the woman in NZ that we heard about took, remember? Dr. Cheney called it an immune system modulator.

    Dr. Cheney called Nexavir a powerful broad spectrum anti-viral. He said it's made from the livers of four month old pigs. I feel a bit bad about that, somehow.

    I don't feel bad about my Armour thryoid, because I assume it's from adult pigs who have been slaughtered anyway for meat. So we may as well use the whole pig.

    I guess I had better go research these two drugs.

  19. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Friday, December 1
    Famvir--Day 25

    Days 1-6: 250 mg
    Days 7-13: 500 mg
    Day 14: No Drug
    Day 15-20: 500 mg
    Day 21-22: No Drug
    Day 23-25: 500 mg

    Once again last night, I awoke after about five hours of sleep with a scratchy throat. I had some Grandma Millie's Brew (see previous post) and some ProBoost, and went back to sleep. About 9 hours total, which was my pre-famvir usual.

    When I was taking Famvir during the day, I started to get sleepy and especially intense die-off about five hours after taking the drug. I wonder if this is related to my waking up after about five hours since taking the medicine with a scratchy throat for the last two days. if so, I don't understand the mechanism.

    My throad felt fine when I woke up. No diarrhea or any such problems today.

    I think both the ProBoost and the ImmunePro Rx (my two favorite "expensive" supplements) have been helpful in this germ-killing enterprise.

    I had a somewhat stressful day and thus was a little irritable. (I don't think this is related to the drug.) Chicago had a foot of snow and so I stayed home.

    I feel pretty much like I did before I started the drug--maybe a 6, no particular symptoms except fatigue and lethargy. (The lack of motivation to do things bothers me even more than the easy fatigue sometimes, actually.)

    My doctor originally said to try Famvir for a month, and if that didn't work we could switch to Valcyte. (He's just been using that since early fall but said he had gotten good results on 18 patients when I talked to him in early October.)

    I don't know what this means. Does he think I should be feeling _well_ by now? We had a lot of other things to discuss in our last 1/2 hour session, and so I didn't get a chance to learn about the AV that much. i didn't really know what to ask at the time.

    So I don't know if this drug is helping me or not. Obviously it's killed a lot of bugs. But maybe they've been replaced with other bugs. Or maybe not a high enough percentage has been killed to make a difference. Or maybe I'm still having a mild herx.

    Actually, the mild herx theory is probably right. I have been saying to myself that I should be looking up all kinds of info re virus remedies, but I've not had the motivation to do so. Usually I look up remedies right away, and in this case I really _want_ to but just can't summon the strength. So maybe I'm not doing quite as well as I claim to be. Certainly better than I was at the beginning of this experiment, anyway.

    In any case, I will continue taking this stuff until early January, when I have my next appointment with with the doc.

    I guess it's good to at least be at least close to where I started.

    I'm going to take a full dose, briefly use our steam shower (followed by a cool rinse), and then go to bed.
    [This Message was Edited on 12/01/2006]
  20. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    Yes, that NZ story was kind of strange. Supposedly the woman took Immunovir for almost a year with no major effect, then suddenly got almost totally better. If I recall, it was a _whole_ lot better.....one of those bedridden-> full time job things.

    I should at least look into this one. Thanks for reminding me, Forebearance.

    I don't know anything about Nexavir. I will look it up when I am less tired.

    That kutapressin that Cheney was so fond of did nothing for me. Isn't that made out of some part of pigs as well?

    Cheney struck gold with the Klonopin. I'm prety sure he was the first to recommend it.

    The Immune Pro Rx also was his recommendation. It didn't do what he said it would (increase energy), but the improvement in liver function has been a good thing for me.

    None of the Th1/Th2 measures he recommended helped me. (I think I did them all except for the drug that had to imported from Ireland or somehwere.)

    What else is on his DVD? I suppose you can buy it somewhere? Is it worth it?
    [This Message was Edited on 12/01/2006]

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