FFC questions...herx from hell

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Sandyz, Jul 21, 2005.

  1. Sandyz

    Sandyz New Member

    I have been on the anti-viral and doxy for about 2 weeks now. The first week I didn`t notice much. This week though has been bad. I`m feeling sick and in a lot of pain. My neck, back and legs are killing me and so are my lymph nodes. I feel nauseous and diarreha off and on.

    It is tempting to quit. I won`t but I need some encouragement. How long did your herxing last and is there anything you did that helped lesson it? Did you take additional pain meds...all I have here is over-the-counter stuff and presription ibroprofen.

    I am stressed out too because my husband and two boys can`t seem to understand what I am going through. They aren`t being very helpful, and I am just wore out.

    Please any encouraging words would be appreciated.

  2. bpmwriter

    bpmwriter New Member

    i feel for you. i know it's hard explaining things, especially the herx effect, to family. they look at you like you've been initiated into some far-out alternative health cult.

    i'm not on doxy, but i am on anti-virals + transfer factor and have experienced similar symptoms. the techniques that work best for me are

    1) sauna (i have a ymca membership), which gives the toxins another means of escape through your pores while relaxing your muscles at the same time

    2) the lemon/water/olive oil drink often discussed on this board, which helps with the nausea.

    you might also call the ffc and ask about actos and/or burbur for help with the die-off. i haven't used them myself but the doc did say they were available if things got rough.

    hang in there,
  3. ldbgcoleman

    ldbgcoleman New Member

    Sandy Please don't quit!! I was so tempted to just quit so many times. The Heperin injections, the pills everything. I amon Doxy and Famvir. The Herx for me was really bad for 4 or 5 days then it started to clear up.

    I am feeling really good now. Better than I have in a long time. I spent the last weekend at a wedding in cabins and I stayed up late and danced. I am going to a comedy club tonight and another night wedding tomorrow. I am so glad I stuck with it. You have already made the investment and I know it will get better for you! Your immune system is overwhelmed right now but the die off is a very good sign. It's working and I am so excited for you. I am a big weinie whiner so if I can do it so can you.

    Good luck Honey Lynn
  4. ckahele

    ckahele New Member

    actos is to help with die-off?

    when they gave it to me i thought they said it was low insulin levels.

    ANNXYZ New Member

    I tried the burbur and did not see that it helped . I hope it works for someone else .

    What i did find that REALLY has made a significant difference is taking one activated charcoal capsule right before sleeping . It absorbs toxins and I had read about it
    many times earlier . Many of the bacteria we are infected with can produce endotoxins when the bacteria dies .
    The charcoal absorbs the toxins and prevents them from recirculating in our sysytems .

    I take one capsule - a larger person takes two . It is imperative NOT TO take it within two hours of meds or supplements , as it can interfere with absorption of meds
    or nutrients .

    I am convinced this has helped me significantly . I usually swallow it down with a glass of water that has a little bit of lemon juice and a bit of olive oil. The oil or fat stimulates the liver ( biliary ducts ) and
    flushes toxins out of the liver .

    I hope someone else tries this . It works so well , I am AFRAID to skip the routine even for a night . I do manage to take my meds earlier in the day to be sure they
    remain effective . I am on ABX also .

    I have also found ( for me that if it becomes intolerable )
    it is better to lower the dose of the ABX for a while , til the bacterial load declines some . I honestly do not think we get well faster by making ourselves so sick .

    That is my unprofessional opinion .
  6. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Sweetie, I know how bad the Herxing can be, especially in the beginning where there are a lot of pathogens biting the dust. If it is more than you think you can handle, call the doc and ask if you can cut down on the meds or just do the Doxy first and add the AV later or vice-versa. In very rare cases, too many pathogens are killed off and it turns into a toxic-shock-like reaction. It is very rare, but it does happen so monitor yourself and call the doc if you need to.

    Most of the pathogens which make us sick live inside our cells and don't come out into the bloodstream until they kill their host cells. That is when they are vulnerable to being killed and a whole bunch will die. As each successive generation of pathogens die off, there are fewer and fewer of them so that over time, the Herxes aren't as bad.

    I am lucky. I have an immune reaction for a few days and then the diarrhea from hell for about 24-48 hrs. I am always glad to get that fetid stuff out of me. After Herxing, I always feel so much better.

    There is not getting around it. If we want to get rid of the infections which are keeping us ill, it has to get worse before it can get better. It does get better but it takes time.

    Good luck to you and please, let us know how you are doing.

    Love, Mikie
  7. Sandyz

    Sandyz New Member

    Your kind words help so much. You`ve all given me really good suggestions. I am anxious to try them. Where can you get the charcoil?

    Has anybody every tried green tea. I`m going to make myself some and see if it helps settle my stomach and helps with eleminating the toxins. I love the sauna idea. I don`t have one but I could use one at a hotel.

    I just took a 3 hour nap and I am feeling a little better for now. Don`t worry, I won`t quit. Its just so hard to feel so tough and have no one to help you through it. Plus, I`ve had to run my kids to their activates and cook for them. I`m beat. Finally the baseball and swimming lessons are done. Things should be a lot less hectic now.

  8. Jeanne-in-Canada

    Jeanne-in-Canada New Member

    I just had my appt. w/ my env. doc yesterday, first in too long really. She runs her clinic very much like the FFC's in the States, does IV's, chelations, sell supps., apparently she charges little more than cost for her supps though. I don't begrudge her, she has to have far more staff and overhead than many docs because of all the comfy furniture she supplies in a room just for iv's, then she has 2 allergy testers, an extra for iv's and also does weight, temp and b.p. for everyone's appt. (iv's are optional of course), then she has a receptionist and is apparently still shortstaffed.

    I may be babbling, but the point is she does many forms of detox. I know she recommends bentonite clay and active charcoal for detox. Best of all, she does the Questran (cholestryramine) neurtoxin detox and learned it straight from Dr. Shoemaker himself, he's the one who started it all after a cluster outbreak in his town from green algae. She said he's a very nice man, and is really gung ho about his treatment, but too gung ho. he recommends too aggressive a detox, and our sick bodies shouldn't have too much, too fast. She thinks lower doses and lots of crucial digestive support and building up, FIRST. She confirmed all my instincts as a nutritionist too.

    I just did Questran a mth ago, and I know what you are going through. I did it through my GP who knew bupkus about it, but gave me the script on info I provided (which he barely skimmed). He wouldn't give me Actos to lesson the die off, as he didn't understand its use for this, thought is was JUST a glucose diabetic type drug and said it was "too out there". I only got up to 3 per day, rather than 4 a day recommended, EI doc said 3 was tooooo much. The body cn'at heal that fast, you are dumping toxins in yours system and that makes you sick too, even if you are killing them.

    I don't recommend yet another drug anyway. Black tea (orange pekoe), I recommend Red Rose or Salada cause they are yummy, is much better than green tea for nausea. Ginger root is the famous one for nausea and has anti-inflammatory and antiviral/a.b.x qualities too. Tastes great brewed w/ fresh lemon wedge and a dab of honey. Dandelion tea is the gentlest of detoxs and doesn't cause a herx, but it will help you w/ a herx. Will also help w/ a hangover, little trick I learned in my wilder days, heh. It's extrememly nutritious too, rich in most of the major vit./mins.

    I also have a dandy article on herxing and tips. Watch for it, i'll bump.

  9. Sandyz

    Sandyz New Member

    Thanks for all the awesome information. I remember that post about getting through the herxing, it would be great if you could bump it.

    I`m glad you mentioned the clay because I had ordered some awhile ok and forgotten about it. I have two kinds of detox clay for the bath. I`m going to use some of that.

    I did try the green tea and I did feel better after I drank it. I`m sure going to try the other kinds you mentioned, they`ll be even better.

    I`m going to call my doctor on Monday and check in with him and see what he thinks. I take 800 mg of acyclovir 3 times a day and doxycycline 200 mg twice a day. I was ok until I added the doxy then it started to really kick my but. I guess I know its working.
  10. onedaymagpie

    onedaymagpie New Member

    I like Annxyz' suggestion with the charcoal. I am going to be starting anti-virals and anti-candida meds this weekend, so I am going to try that with the lemon/olive oil drink. Also, don't forget lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of liquids to keep flushing the toxins out. Also, anything that helps you sweat, to sweat out the toxins, like a hot bath while drinking hot tea.
    Just keep your focus on killing off all those little critters!
    good luck and let us know how it's going (I will be probably following right behind you).
  11. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Even though I do take Epsom Salt soaks for the magnesium, it is Shirl who posts the recipe for the ES/HP soaks. I've done them and they are very beneficial.

    I Herx so hard and so fast that I usually don't do anything for it except rest. Others have posted remedies for Herxing and if you do a search, I'm sure you will find them. There are a lot of suggestions here.

    While I did overlap the Doxy with the Famvir, I had already been on the Doxy for about a year. I think taking both at full dose right off the bat is a bit much. Talk to the docs about this.

    Love, Mikie
  12. foxglove9922

    foxglove9922 New Member

    I have to agree with Mikie, herxing is an evil necessity of this dang illnesses but it is unwise to herx for a long period of time. It sounds like your body is having trouble eliminating the critters.

    Call and see if your dose can be lowered and then work your way back up to the dose as your body recovers.

    best wishes...........foxglove
  13. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    La di dah di di, la di dah di dah. Oh sorry, I got distracted by Sonny and Cher there for a moment.

    Today is the third day of diarrhea from my latest Transfer Factor pulse. At first, I thought it was going to be a mild one as they have been getting milder. Well, I guess I was wrong. I think it is finally letting up, so I won't do anything to interfere with it.

    I've been run down with all this grandma business and I think the viruses just decided to make an attack. Bet they were surprised when my immune system attacked back. I'm just happy all these nasty beasties are out of my body.

    I hope you get some relief from your Herxing.

    Love, Mikie
  14. Sandyz

    Sandyz New Member

    Mikie, I like your little song, the herx goes on...lol. I`m going to have that stuck in my head and sing it when I am feeling bad.

    I`m feeling a little less miserable today. I just took a 3 hour nap, the best escape for days like these. Today I`m taking only half of the full dose of both meds. It really was too much to fast. I will talk to my doctor on Monday and see what he thinks. If he wants me to go back up to full dose I will, anything to kill off this little critters. But I just needed a little break for a couple days. Half is still a pretty high dose.

    I know the epsom salts-hydrogen peroxide mix and I use it all the time. I wish I had some pain killers...I could sure use them.

    Hope you are all having a good day,
  15. foxglove9922

    foxglove9922 New Member


    Jeanne in Canada has an excellent thread going on aiding a herx entitled something like Great Article on Herxing. Like I said, something like that but it's new and hopefully you can find it on the first few pages. Contains alot of great information.

    best wishes.........foxglove
  16. ANNXYZ

    ANNXYZ New Member

    you can usually get the activated charcoal caps at the drug store OTC . You might start with one if you are prone to cnipation . I am small and take one . You can take two acccording to label .
  17. suz9601

    suz9601 Member

    Where do I get the clay for the clay detox? I am sensitive to everything and hope this may be a way for me to get some of this crap out of my system. Thanks
  18. Sandyz

    Sandyz New Member

    Thanks Annx for the information on the charcoal. I`m going to try getting some. Suz I ordered my clay online. Do a search online at magneticclay or blessedbathes. I haven`t used it yet. I had bought it awhile ago and forgotten about it. I`m going to try it the the next few days.

    I`m feeling better today even though I went back up to the high dosage or the AV and the doxy. I did find a felt a great deal better after taking aspirin for pain. It helps thin the blood too so maybe it makes it easier for the toxin to go. Hopefully it will keep helping.


  19. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

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