Fibrinogen Levels (higher) Update

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by jaminhealth, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    Isn't vitamin K -- in any form -- removed from most nattokinase products? It's my understanding that the K is found in the natto fermented soybean food, but not in natto supplements.???
  2. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    Wonder of Wonders: Last night on Coast to Coast radio, Christian Wilde who is a heart health researcher spoke about Homocysteine and Fibrinogen.....I was shocked but happy to hear him. My thoughts are that not enough conventional MD's go to these in labs, but I could be wrong.

    My integrative MD did extensive Lipid labs last year and I've been working on getting Homo and Fibrinogen levels DOWN......

    Nattokinaise 2000FU daily, Omega 3's, more Vit C and the grape seed extract helps with thinning blood too.... and MK-7 daily too.

    Spoke to a product consultant of the company where I get my Natto and she said 2000 was probably good enough as I take other "blood thinners" too...

    Christian Wilde said of homocysteine, it does not cause heart disease, but it does CLOG the arteries to the heart..... with age so much changes and we need to be on TOP of it all as best we can be.

    I won't see my MD until later this year but I will take all the above daily and trust my labs will be much improved when I go later.....Be happy if these two are good in your bodies and if you don't know, not a bad idea to get Homocysteine and Fibrinogen levels checked.
  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Jam, one of the treatments I had years ago was Heparin injections to reduce fibrin in the blood. The fibrin is like a net in the blood vessels which traps platelets. This means a person with thick blood can hemmorage because the platelets are all clogged up in these traps. These masses of fibrin and platelets are also places where chronic pathogens hide out from the immune system. Heparin is no longer available to individuals and Lovenox is very expensive.

    Fortunately, there is an enzyme, Nattokinase, which dissolves the fibrin. In studies, it actually performed better than Heparin. I did a lot of posts years ago on fibrin. When I was giving myself the injections, I Herxed more strongly than with anything else as the pathogens were exposed to my immune system when the clots broke up.

    Love, Mikie
  4. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    Mikie, I feel good about the "stuff" I take which includes Natto and look forward to much better labs the next time....I've also eliminated a LOT of the G.D. salami (processed cwap) and cheese I was eating, too much back in 2012-13, took myself back to when I was young and could do that..... can't do that NOW.....if I want to live and have a healthy heart till it's over.......jam
  5. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Member

    Mikie, unless they just recently stopped Heparin, it is still available as my mom was using this for her blood clots.
  6. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    TigerLilea, perhaps things have changed. A while back, individual vials of Heparin were contaminated and the pharma decided to only make it available in the larger vials for medical arenas where professionals draw from the large vials with individual syringes. A form of Heparin, Lovenox, is available in prefilled syringes for individuals but it is way more expensive than Heparin. Does your Mom use prefilled syringes or does she have a vial to draw from? Is she a medical professional? The reason I ask is because I never heard that Heparin was made available to individuals again. Just wondering.

    Natto doesn't take the place of Heparin in all cases but, in the case of excess fibrin, it works better.

    Love, Mikie
  7. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Member

    Possibly this came about after my mom used it. She was on it after her hip replacement surgery. They were the pre-filled vials that the pharmacy at the hospital gave her when she was released.
  8. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    So, TL, you mom took Heparin post surgery. I don't know if this drug is used here, but probably...most I heard is used is aspirin therapy and coumodin post replacements, my surgeon had me on aspirin therapy for about 3 weeks post's a balancing act with these surgeries, no blood thinners meds/supps pre surgery and then thinners post surgery. I recall when I had to get off grape seed ex about 5 days before surgery, I was feeling nervous, this was the first time since 1995 that I had gone off grape seed ex.... about 2-3 days post I was back on grape seed ex which is a blood thinner. I gather your mom does not take Hep now as it's a while since surgery. Guess she is doing good, I've often wished I had my old pains back....for me it's been H**L..... jm
  9. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Member

    Sorry things didn't work out for you, Jamin. Mom feels great. She gets the occasional pain in her hip but it is a totally different pain and is only temporary and doesn't stop her from doing anything or disrupt her sleep like it did before the surgery. Mom had the traditional surgery done whereas you had the experimental surgery. They won't do the surgery that you had done because it is unproven and they don't know yet what the long term results will be.
  10. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Thing is that heparin can be used as just a general blood thinner or specifically for ridding the body of excess fibrin. People with chronic infections often develop excess fibrin. I believe it is the pathogens which create this problem to adjust their environment in which they thrive. I doubt I would have healed as much as I did earlier on without getting rid of the fibrin where my mycoplasma and Herpes-Family Virus were hiding out. I never Herxed as hard as I did when the Heparin broke up these nasty critters' hiding places and exposed them to my own immune system, which went into overdrive to attack them. Unfortunately, this can cause an autoimmune response. Thank God, and my doc, for the peptide injections which deal with both immune and autoimmune illnesses.

    Love, Mikie
  11. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    TL, I've heard from many who had one or the other replacement surgeries, some with great results and some with horrible results from both types....Your mom is very fortunate....

    There have been 1000's of lawsuits from these replacements etc and I talk to my surgeon's PA often online with questions....and I've worried about infection but he says NO.....these surgeries are traumatic, nerve damage, etc and everyone's outcome is unique.....mine is not what I had hoped for.....but MAYBE I'll get a tad better in more years.....don't know. Gotta work on my knee with Prolo next week and HOPE I can get help.

    Body is out of alignment and has caused pressure on other joints...even thou I had OA in my knee before this surgery.... work on mending as best I can. If I dwell on how I used to be I can make myself nuts. jam
  12. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The saddest words are, "...What might have been." I'm sorry for all your pain and disappointment with the hip. Is this particular hip one which has lawsuits against it? I see ads down here all the time about one joint replace after another being liable for problems. Of course, one has to sue the manufacturer and, in some cases, the doc, and many do not want to do this.

    I'm glad you recognize the futility of focusing on what might have been. I've had to do that too but in the personal area of my life.

    Good luck to you, Jam.

    Love, Mikie
  13. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    I don't believe this is a lawsuit hip issue, what I see now almost 4 yrs later, no matter how great the surgeon, how great the "parts" used, when one goes under the knife, hope for the best and be prepared for the worst....I went in with optimism but had no clue how this outcome was going to be... I've read and talked to MANY with many issues from these replacements.....I'm forever hearing my mom's words: I'll never let them open me up"......

    Many have done replacement after replacement, revision after revision and pretty much know more about what can be expected.....I never had any experience but words and readings...I didn't go searching for all the negative outcomes, I'm sure too I was very naive on all this.....and hearing the words from my could end up in a wheelchair if you don't do the hip.......would I have....I'll never know that one. But often wish for my old pain back.....

    This has truly become an obsession in my life as it's changed my life so dramatically.... Thnks for your kind words....jam
  14. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    Since taking Natto and Omega 3's faithfully since posting about the Fibrinogen, I truly MOST DAYS have less overall pain.

    OA is another big issue with me, but I work on that all the time too, taking Alfalfa daily now for a little over a week and HOPING it will help with the OA inflammation. Alfalfa is a detoxifier cleaning up the blood.....
  15. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    I would surely look at this Fibrinogen (thick sticky blood) issue:

    ... Osteoporosis, Adrenal Fatigue, Chronic Fatigue, and Fibromyalgia. ... It's
    important to realize that fibrinogen is just one of many correlating markers that
    can ...
  16. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    My belief is that chronic infections can be responsible for high fibrogen levels. Pathogens thrive in a low-oxygen environment. The fibrogen in the bloodstream is like a net which captures platelets and produces little clumps of them. This makes for a low-oxygen level in the blood and also gives the pathogens a place to hide out from the immune system. The nattokinase I took was even more effective than heparin shots I gave myself. There was very strong herxing when the pathogens were exposed to my immune system. This was just part of my regimen on my slow road to progress with these illnesses.

    Love, Mikie