Fibro is a type of Rheumatism

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by jaminhealth, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    www.med4u.co.uk/WLAs/fibromyalgia.htm

    I've believed this from day 1, my grandma and mom called
    it rheumatism, but mom also had OA...grandma I don't know but most likely.

    Then the name was changed to fibroitis.

    Then 15yrs ago or so it was re-named Fibromyalgia...


    If you do a search: Fibro Rheumatism a lot of links
    will come up...saying basically the same thing...and so
    much of it is inflammation.[This Message was Edited on 03/15/2013]
  2. Janalynn

    Janalynn New Member

    So much new information has come out on Fibromyalgia in recent years. There is NO inflammation with Fibromyalgia. There may be other things going on at the same time, but Fibro itself does not cause any inflammation. There is no structural damage happening to our bodies. It is a brain - neurological disorder. I know you are stuck on this theory as you have mentioned since you've been posting but I also know you have OA, so I would assume that is where your inflammation is coming from.

    I have inflammation (swelling) in my feet/calves, always have because I retain water. Has nothing to do with Fibro.

    The reason why anti-inflammatories don't work for Fibro is just that. They may work for their pain relieving qualities, but that is the only reason.

    I could post probably a hundred links proving otherwise to what you're saying but you can do a search just as easily.
    One of the VERY first things the rheumatologist who diagnosed me said to me said after I told him that I was allergic to aspirin/anti-inflammatories etc., was 'that doesn't matter, it's not an inflammatory condition". I see a rheumatologist every two months who sees many Fibro patients who is up on the latest research etc. I have seen a pain Dr. who had Fibro who concurred as well. No inflammation caused by Fibro.

    We can agree to disagree as I will guess you're going to stick to your guns on this as you have in the past despite many people saying otherwise. :)
  3. Janalynn

    Janalynn New Member

    So much new information has come out on Fibromyalgia in recent years. There is NO inflammation with Fibromyalgia. There may be other things going on at the same time, but Fibro itself does not cause any inflammation. There is no structural damage happening to our bodies. It is a brain - neurological disorder. I know you are stuck on this theory as you have mentioned since you've been posting but I also know you have OA, so I would assume that is where your inflammation is coming from.

    I have inflammation (swelling) in my feet/calves, always have because I retain water. Has nothing to do with Fibro.

    The reason why anti-inflammatories don't work for Fibro is just that. They may work for their pain relieving qualities, but that is the only reason.

    I could post probably a hundred links proving otherwise to what you're saying but you can do a search just as easily.
    One of the VERY first things the rheumatologist who diagnosed me said to me said after I told him that I was allergic to aspirin/anti-inflammatories etc., was 'that doesn't matter, it's not an inflammatory condition". I see a rheumatologist every two months who sees many Fibro patients who is up on the latest research etc. I have seen a pain Dr. who had Fibro who concurred as well. No inflammation caused by Fibro.

    We can agree to disagree as I will guess you're going to stick to your guns on this as you have in the past despite many people saying otherwise. :)
  4. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    on everything and I don't think there are any definites on anything....

    Speaking of your fluid retention, I've had this issue twice once from a BP med and again after hip replacement and both times extra high doses of grape seed ex got rid of it...

    Just recently, and yes I know about the OA I deal with and it's only getting worse with age, I've noted on my left side (good side) my left ankle area was developing some fluid...so last night I took 400mg before bed and it was gone and then today a little bit more fluid so again I hit my body with 400mg more and it's gone again....so I know grape seed does it for edema and it often has to be hit with higher doses for a while....

    How about just thinking "maybe" fibro can cause some inflammation.....there is hidden inflammation just about everywhere in our bodies.
  5. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    on everything and I don't think there are any definites on anything....

    Speaking of your fluid retention, I've had this issue twice once from a BP med and again after hip replacement and both times extra high doses of grape seed ex got rid of it...

    Just recently, and yes I know about the OA I deal with and it's only getting worse with age, I've noted on my left side (good side) my left ankle area was developing some fluid...so last night I took 400mg before bed and it was gone and then today a little bit more fluid so again I hit my body with 400mg more and it's gone again....so I know grape seed does it for edema and it often has to be hit with higher doses for a while....

    How about just thinking "maybe" fibro can cause some inflammation.....there is hidden inflammation just about everywhere in our bodies.
  6. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    I have said this many times. FM should not be thought of as a disease in its own right. It is a symptom set of an underlying neuro-immune disease process. There appear to be a number of "diseases" which trigger this set of symptoms. In addition to it being present in a number of diseases the diagnostic criteria are vague and fluid. No longer is a "set of tender points an acceptable criterion".

    To say that inflammation is or is not present in FM is a bit of a straw man.

    When someone has ME/CFS AND FM there is definitely inflammatory processes occurring, this has been shown in many studies. Is the inflammation not part of FM? Of course it is, you cannot separate the disease ME/CFS from the FM.

    FM is also common in people who have spinal stenosis, particularly at multiple sites. Is inflammation a result of stenosis? yes it is, in every case. So is inflammation present in FM from stenosis? Of course it is.

    Some people seem to have FM without any other underlying pathology (although I doubt this is the case) perhaps they have no inflammation, just a brain or a mind misinterpreting normal sensations as pain. However the evidence for this theory is weak. The theory is much greater for an underlying immunological attack on the nervous system at many levels. This causes increased pain generated at some common sites, mainly at neuromuscular synapses, constricted nerves, such as in the carpal tunnel area (not carpal tunnel syndrome) and along bone and muscle fascia. These are common sites for immunological involvement. The immune attack is also in the CNS, along the spinal column. This is neuro-inflammatory.

    When the doctor says there is no sign of inflammation s/he has not tested inflammation at the immunological level or even for neuro-inflammation. If they did they would always find elevated inflammatory markers, such as IFN-alpha, IFN-gamma, Il-6, IL-1a, Neurokinin-1 (substance-P) etc. These have been clearly revealed by Prof. Alan Light and his team and by the Australian team lead by Prof. Sonya Marshal-Gradisnik. More recently Prof. Julia Newton's team at Newcastle UK have shown the same thing.

    In these cases it depends on what you want to call "inflammation". No raised CRP does not mean NO inflammation.
    [This Message was Edited on 04/22/2013]
  7. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    I have said this many times. FM should not be thought of as a disease in its own right. It is a symptom set of an underlying neuro-immune disease process. There appear to be a number of "diseases" which trigger this set of symptoms. In addition to it being present in a number of diseases the diagnostic criteria are vague and fluid. No longer is a "set of tender points an acceptable criterion".

    To say that inflammation is or is not present in FM is a bit of a straw man.

    When someone has ME/CFS AND FM there is definitely inflammatory processes occurring, this has been shown in many studies. Is the inflammation not part of FM? Of course it is, you cannot separate the disease ME/CFS from the FM.

    FM is also common in people who have spinal stenosis, particularly at multiple sites. Is inflammation a result of stenosis? yes it is, in every case. So is inflammation present in FM from stenosis? Of course it is.

    Some people seem to have FM without any other underlying pathology (although I doubt this is the case) perhaps they have no inflammation, just a brain or a mind misinterpreting normal sensations as pain. However the evidence for this theory is weak. The theory is much greater for an underlying immunological attack on the nervous system at many levels. This causes increased pain generated at some common sites, mainly at neuromuscular synapses, constricted nerves, such as in the carpal tunnel area (not carpal tunnel syndrome) and along bone and muscle fascia. These are common sites for immunological involvement. The immune attack is also in the CNS, along the spinal column. This is neuro-inflammatory.

    When the doctor says there is no sign of inflammation s/he has not tested inflammation at the immunological level or even for neuro-inflammation. If they did they would always find elevated inflammatory markers, such as IFN-alpha, IFN-gamma, Il-6, IL-1a, Neurokinin-1 (substance-P) etc. These have been clearly revealed by Prof. Alan Light and his team and by the Australian team lead by Prof. Sonya Marshal-Gradisnik. More recently Prof. Julia Newton's team at Newcastle UK have shown the same thing.

    In these cases it depends on what you want to call "inflammation". No raised CRP does not mean NO inflammation.
    [This Message was Edited on 04/22/2013]
  8. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    when I wake up and thank goodness I sleep good, there are so many painful areas and not the so called tender point thing....almost everyone walking around has tender points one doc told me years ago....

    Now is this advanced sore spots from OA, FM or general aging....I'm convinced all of the above...and I know, for me, it's all worse since hip surgery, my right side of body is the sorest....I rub out my right side before I get up and going and now even using rubbing alcohol every morning....thinking back to my mom, she always used rubbing alcohol on her legs, so call it what you want she and others back then had rheumatism (fibro now) and arthritis....
    [This Message was Edited on 04/23/2013]
  9. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    when I wake up and thank goodness I sleep good, there are so many painful areas and not the so called tender point thing....almost everyone walking around has tender points one doc told me years ago....

    Now is this advanced sore spots from OA, FM or general aging....I'm convinced all of the above...and I know, for me, it's all worse since hip surgery, my right side of body is the sorest....I rub out my right side before I get up and going and now even using rubbing alcohol every morning....thinking back to my mom, she always used rubbing alcohol on her legs, so call it what you want she and others back then had rheumatism (fibro now) and arthritis....
    [This Message was Edited on 04/23/2013]
  10. sunflowergirl

    sunflowergirl Active Member

    what relief are you finding from the antabloc?
  11. sunflowergirl

    sunflowergirl Active Member

    what relief are you finding from the antabloc?
  12. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    is just about gone, I can sit for hours, prior to Abloc 15 min and I was in pain, almost in tears....

    Stenosis came on after hip replacement, 2.5 yrs ago, I've mentioned that many times....

    I sleep much much greater.

    The rheumatic pain in arms is pretty much gone.

    It's not a CURE for everything and I'm only on it 4 months soon, but it's helping and I'm off some pain meds....

    It does NOT reverse the aging process, for me anyway, and with age what gets better?//// Maybe our minds...

    Everyone on it has their stories and again it doesn't work for everyone...but it's helping me enough to continue.....


    Oh, the arthritic thumb I've had for close to 30 yrs, the last yr or so it was "locking" I'd have to pry it open when I wake it, I think some call it, trick or trigger, well, it doesn't lock anymore...

    I'm going to give Abloc a good yr and "maybe" things will improve, we'll see. [This Message was Edited on 04/23/2013]
  13. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    is just about gone, I can sit for hours, prior to Abloc 15 min and I was in pain, almost in tears....

    Stenosis came on after hip replacement, 2.5 yrs ago, I've mentioned that many times....

    I sleep much much greater.

    The rheumatic pain in arms is pretty much gone.

    It's not a CURE for everything and I'm only on it 4 months soon, but it's helping and I'm off some pain meds....

    It does NOT reverse the aging process, for me anyway, and with age what gets better?//// Maybe our minds...

    Everyone on it has their stories and again it doesn't work for everyone...but it's helping me enough to continue.....


    Oh, the arthritic thumb I've had for close to 30 yrs, the last yr or so it was "locking" I'd have to pry it open when I wake it, I think some call it, trick or trigger, well, it doesn't lock anymore...

    I'm going to give Abloc a good yr and "maybe" things will improve, we'll see. [This Message was Edited on 04/23/2013]
  14. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    for me anyway, it seems to be attacking my NEWEST inflamm issues, spinal stuff is just about 2 yrs now....the right knee issue has been going on since 1996 when I first went to an ortho to have it checked, that was 17 yrs ago....I have the paperwork as I save all my records...

    Knee got so worse after surgery as my body shifted so much and I was in a horrible mess for a lotta months, could hardly walk some days....I remember it well...

    Also, the tooth I'm trying to save myself from major dental work is about pain free....so I believe it's working on that inflammation too.

    The thumb althou OA set in a lotta yrs ago, it never bothered me, but the "trick" thing started about a yr ago....so...

    I watch for subtle changes....also waking up at 2AM or so for bathroom, I have NOT had to take a Calms to get back to sleep since about a month ago.....anyway. jam
  15. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    for me anyway, it seems to be attacking my NEWEST inflamm issues, spinal stuff is just about 2 yrs now....the right knee issue has been going on since 1996 when I first went to an ortho to have it checked, that was 17 yrs ago....I have the paperwork as I save all my records...

    Knee got so worse after surgery as my body shifted so much and I was in a horrible mess for a lotta months, could hardly walk some days....I remember it well...

    Also, the tooth I'm trying to save myself from major dental work is about pain free....so I believe it's working on that inflammation too.

    The thumb althou OA set in a lotta yrs ago, it never bothered me, but the "trick" thing started about a yr ago....so...

    I watch for subtle changes....also waking up at 2AM or so for bathroom, I have NOT had to take a Calms to get back to sleep since about a month ago.....anyway. jam
  16. bobbycat

    bobbycat New Member

    If this is true why does so many women on my mothers side have it at different degrees. My sister was diagnosed last year. My cousin on my mothers side who is a lot older them me was just here and her sister and her daughter has it. I have a lot of her cousins on my mother side that have it. We all have different problems that go along with and a lot of the same. On my other side of the family I have a family full of arthritis, spine disorders, etc and none of them have it. This rational does not make since to me. There is more to FMS and that is why the finally decided to put it in it's own category and call it FMS as it did not fit into the other categories yet there has to be a cause to why so many people have the same points and are having similar symptoms. My spine is a mess I was just diagnosed with more as it has progressed yet I do not believe my spine is causing my FMS yes it is causing me a lot of additional pain and it is magnified my FMS. But why when I stub my toe does it hurt ten times more then it does the average persons? Why does the other side of the family not have it but my mothers side all so much of it. My aunts spine was so bad she ended up in a wheel chair but she did not have FMS and that was on the other side of the family. Anti inflammatory do not help my FMS only pain pills but the muscle relaxers help my mid back from car accident but do not help FMS. Anti inflammatory will help arthritis but not FMS when I was able to take them. I know what helps what as I have all. So the theory does not ring true. If it did they would have named it as a Spine disease or a Rheumatism disease but it is neither. I believe that additional things wrong with you which I have do escalates the FMS and contributes to your pain symptoms. I also believe if you fix all those other things you would feel a lot better and be able to function pretty good like I could in my earlier years prior to it progressing but I do believe that it is progressive and I believe that there is something causing us to have more pain then the normal person. I do believe our life styles gage the degree of what degree of pain and what other things are wrong with us will determine how bad the FMS will get and how much pain we will live in. Never judge another person with FMS.
  17. bobbycat

    bobbycat New Member

    If this is true why does so many women on my mothers side have it at different degrees. My sister was diagnosed last year. My cousin on my mothers side who is a lot older them me was just here and her sister and her daughter has it. I have a lot of her cousins on my mother side that have it. We all have different problems that go along with and a lot of the same. On my other side of the family I have a family full of arthritis, spine disorders, etc and none of them have it. This rational does not make since to me. There is more to FMS and that is why the finally decided to put it in it's own category and call it FMS as it did not fit into the other categories yet there has to be a cause to why so many people have the same points and are having similar symptoms. My spine is a mess I was just diagnosed with more as it has progressed yet I do not believe my spine is causing my FMS yes it is causing me a lot of additional pain and it is magnified my FMS. But why when I stub my toe does it hurt ten times more then it does the average persons? Why does the other side of the family not have it but my mothers side all so much of it. My aunts spine was so bad she ended up in a wheel chair but she did not have FMS and that was on the other side of the family. Anti inflammatory do not help my FMS only pain pills but the muscle relaxers help my mid back from car accident but do not help FMS. Anti inflammatory will help arthritis but not FMS when I was able to take them. I know what helps what as I have all. So the theory does not ring true. If it did they would have named it as a Spine disease or a Rheumatism disease but it is neither. I believe that additional things wrong with you which I have do escalates the FMS and contributes to your pain symptoms. I also believe if you fix all those other things you would feel a lot better and be able to function pretty good like I could in my earlier years prior to it progressing but I do believe that it is progressive and I believe that there is something causing us to have more pain then the normal person. I do believe our life styles gage the degree of what degree of pain and what other things are wrong with us will determine how bad the FMS will get and how much pain we will live in. Never judge another person with FMS.
  18. MsBrandywine

    MsBrandywine Member

    I have the Devlin Manual For Fibromyalgia and Myofacial pain syndrome...
    So .. seems they are combined.. not one and the same but.. work together?
    From my understanding.. unless Im not reading it right..
    I also.. just read an article online and they said Claire Davies has a Triggerpoint Therapy workbook out.. sounds interesting.. I called my local library and they didn't have it but they did have the one that Donna Fanando wrote.. Triggerpoint self care manual for pain free movement ?
  19. MsBrandywine

    MsBrandywine Member

    I have the Devlin Manual For Fibromyalgia and Myofacial pain syndrome...
    So .. seems they are combined.. not one and the same but.. work together?
    From my understanding.. unless Im not reading it right..
    I also.. just read an article online and they said Claire Davies has a Triggerpoint Therapy workbook out.. sounds interesting.. I called my local library and they didn't have it but they did have the one that Donna Fanando wrote.. Triggerpoint self care manual for pain free movement ?
  20. MsBrandywine

    MsBrandywine Member

    I remember my old Dr used to call it fibrositis when I first was diaginosed.. she then told me I could go see a Rhuematologist and get his opinion.. so I did.. and he did confirm.. thats when he called it Fibromyalgia.. so.. guess maybe each Dr had their own way of telling it like they saw it? lol..
    When I went to see a Dr from when i was hurt at my job.. like they send Ya to when they're trying to see if You are really hurt.. and he said I had all the symptoms of that and Chronic Fatigue. that was back in the 90's..

    Whatever it is.. Its like it hurts.. in one area .. ya get a few days of not so bad.. (iffy days).. then comes in another major flare up with a new place!..
  21. MsBrandywine

    MsBrandywine Member

    I remember my old Dr used to call it fibrositis when I first was diaginosed.. she then told me I could go see a Rhuematologist and get his opinion.. so I did.. and he did confirm.. thats when he called it Fibromyalgia.. so.. guess maybe each Dr had their own way of telling it like they saw it? lol..
    When I went to see a Dr from when i was hurt at my job.. like they send Ya to when they're trying to see if You are really hurt.. and he said I had all the symptoms of that and Chronic Fatigue. that was back in the 90's..

    Whatever it is.. Its like it hurts.. in one area .. ya get a few days of not so bad.. (iffy days).. then comes in another major flare up with a new place!..
  22. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    The older MD called it fibroitis, the latest rheumy I've been seeing for acupuncture and mesotherapy injections, called it fibromyalgia, she is YOUNG....

    I have pain spots all over my body, so whatever it is, it's what it is as the young generation call it...

    But, I believe inflammation is definitely involved...some worse for others...
  23. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    The older MD called it fibroitis, the latest rheumy I've been seeing for acupuncture and mesotherapy injections, called it fibromyalgia, she is YOUNG....

    I have pain spots all over my body, so whatever it is, it's what it is as the young generation call it...

    But, I believe inflammation is definitely involved...some worse for others...
  24. lgp

    lgp Well-Known Member

    Without a doubt, i totally believe that. As anti-meds as I am, and you know I am (lol), I reluctantly went back on asthma medication, having no choice. It is a mild steroid, and since I started talking it, my hands are not killing me anymore...an added bonus I guess. Every adult in my family has some form of arthritis, so it does not surprise me at all at the tight link between what we call fibro and what our ancestors called rheumatism.


    Laura
  25. lgp

    lgp Well-Known Member

    Without a doubt, i totally believe that. As anti-meds as I am, and you know I am (lol), I reluctantly went back on asthma medication, having no choice. It is a mild steroid, and since I started talking it, my hands are not killing me anymore...an added bonus I guess. Every adult in my family has some form of arthritis, so it does not surprise me at all at the tight link between what we call fibro and what our ancestors called rheumatism.


    Laura
  26. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    my daughter, I believe, has chronic inflammation. Her hands are what she complains about....most. But she has other issues too, she is into her 2nd month on anatabloc and doing much better...just an fyi....abloc kills off inflammation, not a steroid.....I know you deal with the asthma issues and I know I mentioned grape seed ex many times, but don't recall, again, if you ever went there...my friend deals with asthma and is so much better since on grape seed ex now over 5 yrs. jam
  27. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    my daughter, I believe, has chronic inflammation. Her hands are what she complains about....most. But she has other issues too, she is into her 2nd month on anatabloc and doing much better...just an fyi....abloc kills off inflammation, not a steroid.....I know you deal with the asthma issues and I know I mentioned grape seed ex many times, but don't recall, again, if you ever went there...my friend deals with asthma and is so much better since on grape seed ex now over 5 yrs. jam
  28. lgp

    lgp Well-Known Member

    I went off the grapeseed because I was having digestive issues from it due to (and prior to) my gall bladder being removed, and I also felt it might have been making me itch, but that might have been related to the gb as well (I did not have stones...biliary dyskinesia...gb shutting down), so the itching may have been caused by something other than the grapeseed. I may give the grapeseed another shot. Laura
  29. lgp

    lgp Well-Known Member

    I went off the grapeseed because I was having digestive issues from it due to (and prior to) my gall bladder being removed, and I also felt it might have been making me itch, but that might have been related to the gb as well (I did not have stones...biliary dyskinesia...gb shutting down), so the itching may have been caused by something other than the grapeseed. I may give the grapeseed another shot. Laura
  30. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    and I'm sure inflammation is a major component to asthma..think about the anatabloc too for all inflammation...when I see some reviews on asthma/anatabloc I'll post it.....just know and I'm sure you do, about the longterm damage those steroids can do.
  31. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    and I'm sure inflammation is a major component to asthma..think about the anatabloc too for all inflammation...when I see some reviews on asthma/anatabloc I'll post it.....just know and I'm sure you do, about the longterm damage those steroids can do.
  32. lgp

    lgp Well-Known Member

    What in your opinion is the best and most effective delivery of the grapeseed? Capsules?Liquid? Taken morning or evening? I would really like to get this right. And apologies if this is a repeat answer to questions already asked!!


    Best--Laura
  33. lgp

    lgp Well-Known Member

    What in your opinion is the best and most effective delivery of the grapeseed? Capsules?Liquid? Taken morning or evening? I would really like to get this right. And apologies if this is a repeat answer to questions already asked!!


    Best--Laura
  34. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    find grape seed extract liquid...maybe one source or very limited if that. There is grapeseed oil for cooking and salads but that's a whole other ballgame...

    Since you have issues, I would recommend trying the source naturals tablet form and start with 100mg and try to take 2 per day....and see...if you are thin, maybe 100mg daily would be good enough....

    I've taken the tablet, but since I have no issues I stick with the capsules for me....I take grape seed ex usually 3 times per day.....

    If you are really serious about "trying" again, go slowly and see, I KNOW, it would help with your asthma condition....jm
    [This Message was Edited on 05/04/2013]
  35. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    find grape seed extract liquid...maybe one source or very limited if that. There is grapeseed oil for cooking and salads but that's a whole other ballgame...

    Since you have issues, I would recommend trying the source naturals tablet form and start with 100mg and try to take 2 per day....and see...if you are thin, maybe 100mg daily would be good enough....

    I've taken the tablet, but since I have no issues I stick with the capsules for me....I take grape seed ex usually 3 times per day.....

    If you are really serious about "trying" again, go slowly and see, I KNOW, it would help with your asthma condition....jm
    [This Message was Edited on 05/04/2013]
  36. sunflowergirl

    sunflowergirl Active Member

    I would like to find what he said.
  37. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    While Hippocrates was a great observer and recorder of symptoms of disease he did not describe the modern diseases rheumatoid arthritis or fibromyalgia both of which are immunological and may not have existed then or at least in the population he studied. He describes many forms of pain related condition but no records reasonably describe these conditions, which to someone like Hippocrates would have been quite well described and identified in his texts.

    Fibromyalgia is not a Rheumatism, it can be thought of as a rheumatological syndrome because it affects soft tissue but there is no clear evidence of it affecting joint bone or cartilage directly.

    Fibromyalgia is more of a neuro-immune disease by current evidence where muscle and tendon tissue have low energetics and pro-inflammatory involvement but they are not the center of the illness. The central signs are in the immune system - without doubt. How the immune dysfunction came about is a matter of debate, between: on the one hand a neurologically originated oxidative stress and on the other hand a pathogen induced immunological dysfunction inducing oxidative stress and neurological damage/dysfunction (in this case similar to or part of ME/CFS). The neurological origins of the oxidative stress are thought of (by psychiatrists mainly) to be caused at least partly by psychological stress. We do know that chronic psychological stress is pro-inflammatory and does induce some oxidative stress.

    These hypotheses are probably all correct to some degree with genetics being the fulcrum of the disease. So that anything which induces long term oxidative stress will be a risk factor. However it is hard to explain the long term course of the disease in this way, that is why, at least in some long term cases(over 10 years) one of the risk factors is likely to be a stealth pathogen, such as EBV.
  38. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    OA, came into my body at 18 and then the FM attack at age 61 my body is "full" of various type pains....

    But for me, the fibro rheumatic pain in arms and shoulders is about gone since Anatabloc. I keep waiting for it to return and so far so good.

    It would wake me in the wee hours of morning and that is not happening anymore, I sleep straight thru in none of this rheumatic pain, a gnawing ache type pain.

    Inflammation is in all of us, some say a "hidden" inflammation... I even looked up Inflammation and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and found a LOT of info on that....

    Do a search on that one....it's on the net....inflammation and cfs.
  39. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    are out of date.
  40. Denamay

    Denamay New Member

    Thanks for the info. IanH.
  41. tjblueeyes

    tjblueeyes New Member

    I believe this is possible, however, my rheumy Dr. always told me I didn't have inflammation. Why, then, does an anti-inflammatory topical gel help my muscle pain?
  42. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    changed several times over MANY yrs and I do believe there is inflammation involved...since I'm taking the new anti inflammatory supp, the rheumatic pain is greatly reduced, almost gone....I have shoulder injury damage, but the rheumatic pain is hardly there anymore...

    Others have reported less pain who deal with Fibro and are taking the anatabloc....so I'll stick to what I believe. jam


    Google Cheryl Reilly Anatabloc

    She tells her story re: fibro and crohns..[This Message was Edited on 04/05/2013]